Looking for a DAC... Older Lampizator vs Ayon?

[ephemera]

Hello everyone, it's my first thread here

I'm looking for an used DAC for my current setup, which is mostly Naim equipment. I was considering two options in my budget - Ayon Kronos and Lampizator Big 7 with engine ELEVEN.

Both are tubed with rather good reviews. Kronos is newer (mid 2022) and has good (from what I know) preamp built-in. Big 7 is much older but it was upgraded to engine eleven, no preamp by default - I see one on a local auction, the price is similar to Kronos, but noone is interested in it. I'm afraid that in the future it will be a bigger problem to sell it.. I can borrow Ayon, but I can't borrow that Lampi to compare...

What is your suggestion? Or maybe something else?

 

[AnonymousAudiophile]

You owe it to yourself to try Lampizator DACs. Ayon might be great too, but never tried one.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Welcome here!
What do you expect from the new DAC in terms of sound?
What is important to you?
How much money are you willing to spend?

 

[sidvee]

Had 2-3 Ayon DAC's, last one being the Ayon Skylla II. Very good DAC's and excellent build quality as well, but I feel my current Lampi Baltic 3 is better. Not sure of the current crop of Ayon DAC's though as I haven't heard any.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[ephemera]

You owe it to yourself to try Lampizator DACs. Ayon might be great too, but never tried one.

Yeah, especially since they're from my country. No dealer in my city though..

 

[ephemera]

Welcome here!
What do you expect from the new DAC in terms of sound?
What is important to you?
How much money are you willing to spend?

Hello and thanks for your reply! I'll start with money - I'd like to spend for an used DAC about 6000-7000 USD. In that price range is Lampi Big7 or Ayon Kronos.

What do I expect from new DAC? I'm not sure what I should expect because I've never had one. The sound from my current system seems to be a little bright so ideally I'd like the DAC to make it bit warmer, deeper, more magical (?) but without loosing details/resolution.. Moreover, I listen to CDs via Naim CD2XS. I'd like to use it as a transport only and connect via SPDIF to DAC to get something more from it.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Hello and thanks for your reply! I'll start with money - I'd like to spend for an used DAC about 6000-7000 USD. In that price range is Lampi Big7 or Ayon Kronos.

What do I expect from new DAC? I'm not sure what I should expect because I've never had one. The sound from my current system seems to be a little bright so ideally I'd like the DAC to make it bit warmer, deeper, more magical (?) but without loosing details/resolution.. Moreover, I listen to CDs via Naim CD2XS. I'd like to use it as a transport only and connect via SPDIF to DAC to get something more from it.

OK. Naim devices have a good prat , you don't want a bright sound. I've just looked in the German audio market. Your description of what you're looking for matches a metronome dac.
A used metronome c8+ dac is currently being offered there for the price mentioned. This dac offers the option of choosing between a transistor and a tube output.
The one plays more dynamically, the tube output plays more organically with a bigger wider soundstage.
I'm a bit biased because I use a metronome dac myself. I'm very happy with the sound and won't change again. That would be my tip.
I would advise against Ayon pre/dacs. For me they have an analytical sound and not an emotional one.

With extern power supply that was biggest dac from metronome before the new series comes on the market

Metronome Technologie C8+ , 2-teilig - optional mit dem besten Streamer (2152794704) | Gebrauchtgerät | D/A Wandler | Angebot auf audio-markt.de

Angeboten wird „C8+ , 2-teilig - optional mit dem besten Streamer“ von Metronome Technologie als Gebrauchtgerät aus der Kategorie „D/A Wandler“ bei audio-markt.de - dem Online-Marktplatz für High-End. Das Inserat mit der Nummer 2152794704 endet am 06.11.2024 um 19:05 Uhr.

www.audio-markt.de

Dac

Power supply

 

[ephemera]

OK. Naim devices have a good prat , you don't want a bright sound. I've just looked in the German audio market. Your description of what you're looking for matches a metronome dac.
A used metronome c8+ dac is currently being offered there for the price mentioned. This dac offers the option of choosing between a transistor and a tube output.
The one plays more dynamically, the tube output plays more organically with a bigger wider soundstage.
I'm a bit biased because I use a metronome dac myself. I'm very happy with the sound and won't change again. That would be my tip.
I would advise against Ayon pre/dacs. For me they have an analytical sound and not an emotional one.

With extern power supply that was biggest dac from metronome before the new series comes on the market

Metronome Technologie C8+ , 2-teilig - optional mit dem besten Streamer (2152794704) | Gebrauchtgerät | D/A Wandler | Angebot auf audio-markt.de

Angeboten wird „C8+ , 2-teilig - optional mit dem besten Streamer“ von Metronome Technologie als Gebrauchtgerät aus der Kategorie „D/A Wandler“ bei audio-markt.de - dem Online-Marktplatz für High-End. Das Inserat mit der Nummer 2152794704 endet am 06.11.2024 um 19:05 Uhr.

www.audio-markt.de

Dac
View attachment 137583
Power supply
View attachment 137584

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll definitely look into this device.

 

[Nuforce]

Hello everyone, it's my first thread here

I'm looking for an used DAC for my current setup, which is mostly Naim equipment. I was considering two options in my budget - Ayon Kronos and Lampizator Big 7 with engine ELEVEN.

Both are tubed with rather good reviews. Kronos is newer (mid 2022) and has good (from what I know) preamp built-in. Big 7 is much older but it was upgraded to engine eleven, no preamp by default - I see one on a local auction, the price is similar to Kronos, but noone is interested in it. I'm afraid that in the future it will be a bigger problem to sell it.. I can borrow Ayon, but I can't borrow that Lampi to compare...

What is your suggestion? Or maybe something else?

What's your budget ?

The Acuhorn R2R T with PX4 triodes saw off a lampizator Poseidon in a head to head at a dealer. And it was 95% as good as the Pacific 2.

To my ears.

 

[ephemera]

What's your budget ?

The Acuhorn R2R T with PX4 triodes saw off a lampizator Poseidon in a head to head at a dealer. And it was 95% as good as the Pacific 2.

To my ears.

5000-7000 USD. Thanks, very interesting info, from what I see the price difference between it and Pacific 2 is huge. Another small company from my country that I didn't know of.

 

[Nuforce]

Unfortunately the guy who makes these is hampered by Soekris who stopped the production of the dam1121 OEM board. I believe due to lack of FPGA chips.

He may not have stock but worth asking.

I upgraded mine to the dam1121-01: (0.01% resistor version) and had Acuhorn rewire the internals with Dueland pure silver in oil wire, so mine isn't stock.

 

[ephemera]

Unfortunately the guy who makes these is hampered by Soekris who stopped the production of the dam1121 OEM board. I believe due to lack of FPGA chips.

He may not have stock but worth asking.

I upgraded mine to the dam1121-01: (0.01% resistor version) and had Acuhorn rewire the internals with Dueland pure silver in oil wire, so mine isn't stock.

I saw this specific model is not available on his website anymore. Probably I would have to find it second hand. How much did you pay for the upgrade and what was the difference in terms of sound quality?

PS. Don't want to be rude, but is there anyone else that could support this opinion "The Acuhorn R2R T with PX4 triodes saw off a lampizator Poseidon in a head to head at a dealer. And it was 95% as good as the Pacific 2." ? It sounds really great and I would love it to be that way, but it's really hard to believe that it can be in the same league as the Lampi models that are much much much more expensive.....

 

[DasguteOhr]

Unfortunately the guy who makes these is hampered by Soekris who stopped the production of the dam1121 OEM board. I believe due to lack of FPGA chips.

He may not have stock but worth asking.

I upgraded mine to the dam1121-01: (0.01% resistor version) and had Acuhorn rewire the internals with Dueland pure silver in oil wire, so mine isn't stock.

Thats really good dac boards 1021/ 1121,used lampizator baltic model too, when you modified it and run it i nos mode with tubes or without.my diy solution.
But a metronome dac destroy this after the first song..sometimes it's hard to admit when you so much work has gone into it.


P.s when you ever need a portable dac soekris 1101 with e.g laptop+ headphones thats amazing little thing.

 

[Nuforce]

The metronome you mention looks superb and I am sure it sounds good. I'm not sure it is really sensible to compare my Acuhorn's sound to your diy Soekris IMO. The power supply and output stage is completely different, despite the use of the same board.

All I can say is that the dealer who allowed me to compare the Acuhorn to the Poseidon / GG2 was also surprised how good the Acuhorn sounded. Easily superior to the Poseidon which sounded less fluid and more mechanical sounding to my ears.

The GG2 was even more fluid and organic vs the Acuhorn but not enough difference for me to warrant the price.

I'm keeping the polish underdog and investing in more watches instead!

 

[jymc2]

I saw this specific model is not available on his website anymore. Probably I would have to find it second hand. How much did you pay for the upgrade and what was the difference in terms of sound quality?

PS. Don't want to be rude, but is there anyone else that could support this opinion "The Acuhorn R2R T with PX4 triodes saw off a lampizator Poseidon in a head to head at a dealer. And it was 95% as good as the Pacific 2." ? It sounds really great and I would love it to be that way, but it's really hard to believe that it can be in the same league as the Lampi models that are much much much more expensive.....

and is that "95% as good" a scientific measurement?? How did you arrive at 95% and not 90% or 85%? OR, might this assessment merely represent YOUR personal sonic preferences?

 

[Nuforce]

and is that "95% as good" a scientific measurement?? How did you arrive at 95% and not 90% or 85%? OR, might this assessment merely represent YOUR personal sonic preferences?

Obviously that's just my opinion and clearly not scientific

 

[Nuforce]

I saw this specific model is not available on his website anymore. Probably I would have to find it second hand. How much did you pay for the upgrade and what was the difference in terms of sound quality?

PS. Don't want to be rude, but is there anyone else that could support this opinion "The Acuhorn R2R T with PX4 triodes saw off a lampizator Poseidon in a head to head at a dealer. And it was 95% as good as the Pacific 2." ? It sounds really great and I would love it to be that way, but it's really hard to believe that it can be in the same league as the Lampi models that are much much much more expensive.....

Diminishing returns. The Pacific was audibly superior to the Acuhorn when using the same PX4 tubes. But to my ears and IN MY OPINION the gap was close.

Feel free to buy a Pacific.

 

[morricab]

OK. Naim devices have a good prat , you don't want a bright sound. I've just looked in the German audio market. Your description of what you're looking for matches a metronome dac.
A used metronome c8+ dac is currently being offered there for the price mentioned. This dac offers the option of choosing between a transistor and a tube output.
The one plays more dynamically, the tube output plays more organically with a bigger wider soundstage.
I'm a bit biased because I use a metronome dac myself. I'm very happy with the sound and won't change again. That would be my tip.
I would advise against Ayon pre/dacs. For me they have an analytical sound and not an emotional one.

With extern power supply that was biggest dac from metronome before the new series comes on the market

Metronome Technologie C8+ , 2-teilig - optional mit dem besten Streamer (2152794704) | Gebrauchtgerät | D/A Wandler | Angebot auf audio-markt.de

Angeboten wird „C8+ , 2-teilig - optional mit dem besten Streamer“ von Metronome Technologie als Gebrauchtgerät aus der Kategorie „D/A Wandler“ bei audio-markt.de - dem Online-Marktplatz für High-End. Das Inserat mit der Nummer 2152794704 endet am 06.11.2024 um 19:05 Uhr.

www.audio-markt.de

Dac
View attachment 137583
Power supply
View attachment 137584

Which Ayon DAC/pre have you heard? I own a Skylla 2 and it sounds not at all analytical. It uses the wonderful BB PCM-1704K chips with a very good output stage. Most who come over notice the rich tone good but not overwhelming resolution. It also soundstages and images very well. I think some early Ayon cd players might have sounded that way but definitely not from the cd-5/skylla onwards.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

and is that "95% as good" a scientific measurement?? How did you arrive at 95% and not 90% or 85%? OR, might this assessment merely represent YOUR personal sonic preferences?

I have a Poseidon anchoring analog and it's own DAC into a pair of Westminster Labs REI amps. The bonus is the excellent pre-amp with stock tubes. LPs sound fantastic (even with the inexpensive Dynavector 20X2L on a Brooks Berdan moded SME IV arm). Wow! I've lost any interest in tube rolling. You want a great DAC, my friend and my second system are using a Topping D70s filter 4-(terrible preamp) but a great DAC, 85% as good as the Poseidon (not quite as warm/full but fast, highly resolving, dynamic and greatly resolving for $350 to $500 used). Used with Von Schweikert speakers (mine-upgraded 2016 made VR9 SE Mk2).

 

[jymc2]

hey Leo.....was just messing with ya on a particularly bad day. My attitude about high end audio these days is that companies are now building $38,000 DACs, etc, only because they can and they know someone (like me?) might buy them. I've spent well over 6-figures (times 3x!!!) on my system, yet there are days when I'm still researching how to incrementally improve certain sonic characteristics that I've focused my attention to. The music already sounds great so what is the point? Furthermore, so much of what we focus on can NEVER be fixed because a large percentage of the sonic problems we hear are the result of unavoidable mis-matches between the gear used in the recording, mixing, and mastering processes, and the gear we assemble in our homes (regardless of brands and prices we may spend). This is the rabbit hole dilemma.....