Pass Labs options/questions

[Tim E]

Hi, new member here, although i have enjoyed your forum in the past without joining up.
I currently have a Vinnie Rossi LIO (no amp section) used as my DAC and Preamp. I have a Pass XA30.5 amp and am using home built Troels G. 3WC-10 speakers (90db sensitive 3-ways).
I am feeling my preamp is holding me back, so have been looking at other options. One of the main ones has been going to an all Pass setup, probably getting an XP-12, as my rack space is limited. I would also like to eventually go to the XA25 amp. Which leads me to the main part of this question. If i am constrained for space, should i just be trying to move directly to a Pass INT-25? or does anyone have some insight as to how much better a XA30.5 or XA25 amp and XP-12 would be over the integrated? My current transport is a CD player (nothing special) so losing the DAC from the Rossi LIO would not prevent my digital listening. I am only doing 2 channel and only running CD and Vinyl. Currently have a Teres home made table, Acoustic Signature 12" arm, and George Wright tubed phono stage. Eventually would be looking at adding in a DAC as well. I am somewhat budget constrained on the preamp (under $5K), am trying to avoid tubes, and am primarily looking something simple and small ( SPL, Benchmark, Hegel, are on my interesting list).

 

[Axel C]

If you haven't seen it here's Herb Reichert's review of the INT-25. My understanding is that it is very close to the XA25/XP12 combo and there happens to be one listed at US Audiomart asking $5k. Keep in mind it does not have any balanced inputs. I have the XA25 (with the XP32) and it's very impressive and has much more power than its relatively modest rating. Unless you're going with a higher level Pass pre or need the balanced inputs I don't see a material advantage of the separates.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/pass-labs-int-25-integrated-amplifier

 

[Tim E]

If you haven't seen it here's Herb Reichert's review of the INT-25. My understanding is that it is very close to the XA25/XP12 combo and there happens to be one listed at US Audiomart asking $5k. Keep in mind it does not have any balanced inputs. I have the XA25 (with the XP32) and it's very impressive and has much more power than its relatively modest rating. Unless you're going with a higher level Pass pre or need the balanced inputs I don't see a material advantage of the separates.

thanks Axel, i had read that, but a reread did help. It is amazing with all of the reviews out there and the comparisons of XP10 to XP12, etc there is not more talking about pass integrated vs separates....thanks for the direction.

 

[jeromelang]

I find it necessary to keep front end electronics and the pre-amp far away from the power amp.

By doing that, the user will enjoy bigger, wider, taller soundstage.
Better flow of musical ease and dynamics too.

The issue here is eddy current and how they could alter the characteristics of the magnetic field around each component, inevitably affecting the soundstaging properties of those components.

The most intense magnetic field is the one coming from the power amp. More intense magnetic field, the farther the rest of the electronics have to be separate from.

Oh yeah, it also helps to reduce the metallic count around these 2 groups of components.

Separates are preferred if the above issue is considered.

 

[TonyW]

I like having a clean open space between the speakers. It is costly however, running long, good quality interconnects from the Preamp to the Amps. I also have two separate dedicated 20 amp power outlets- one to the amps and one to the front end. The amps are plugged directly into the wall. And the soundstage is very big and tall- beyond the walls which is most apparent in the dark or with eyes closed.

 

[Argonaut]

View attachment 144157

Ahhhhh … I see that you have gone for the Romulan D’deridex “Warbird” decor vibe , very nice Tony .

 

[TonyW]

Ahhhhh … I see that you have gone for the Romulan D’deridex “Warbird” decor vibe , very nice Tony .

Cool. I hadn‘t realized that. I have been subliminally impacted by Star Trek since watching the original series as a kid in the 60s.

 

[KrellFan1]

I find it necessary to keep front end electronics and the pre-amp far away from the power amp.

By doing that, the user will enjoy bigger, wider, taller soundstage.
Better flow of musical ease and dynamics too.

The issue here is eddy current and how they could alter the characteristics of the magnetic field around each component, inevitably affecting the soundstaging properties of those components.

The most intense magnetic field is the one coming from the power amp. More intense magnetic field, the farther the rest of the electronics have to be separate from.

Oh yeah, it also helps to reduce the metallic count around these 2 groups of components.

Separates are preferred if the above issue is considered.

I noticed you have a Pass Labs X350.8 in your system. I am actively considering that along with a Macintosh MC462. My sense is that coming from my Krell 300XD I may be making a lateral move if I transition to a Pass X250.8 given my room size of 18X16 w 8 feet ceilings, so don't know that I would benefit from the added headroom? Thoughts? And may I ask which amp you had before your Pass Labs X350.8?

 

[jeromelang]

I'm afraid I can't help you much, as I haven't owned any lower powered Pass Labs amps.
I haven't really had the chance to push the X350.8 anywhere close to its limits. I have yet to see the needle fickle.

Before the X350.8 I had the original X350. Also the bass-shy Sony TA-N1, rated at 200Watts @ 8 ohms.

What the .8 version of the X350 giving me is a more articulate and spacious soundstage, more enhanced musical flow, and a softer, less analytical transient response compared to the earlier X350. The level of bass extension and power seems similar. The X350.8 supposedly have fewer circuit stages and less feedback, which probably explain why it seems superior in the ability to portray the recording venue and the layering of instruments. The run-in process takes more than 5 months.....

My Sony loudspeakers (in both rooms) are much too linear going down to their lowest octaves, and I've only just recently (1 year ago) had them placed closer to the front walls under the advise of Dr Tsai (of Taiwan), so that they can better couple with the room boundaries to flesh out the deeper low frequencies.

 

[KrellFan1]

I'm afraid I can't help you much, as I haven't owned any lower powered Pass Labs amps.
I haven't really had the chance to push the X350.8 anywhere close to its limits. I have yet to see the needle fickle.

Before the X350.8 I had the original X350. Also the bass-shy Sony TA-N1, rated at 200Watts @ 8 ohms.

What the .8 version of the X350 giving me is a more articulate and spacious soundstage, more enhanced musical flow, and a softer, less analytical transient response compared to the earlier X350. The level of bass extension and power seems similar. The X350.8 supposedly have fewer circuit stages and less feedback, which probably explain why it seems superior in the ability to portray the recording venue and the layering of instruments. The run-in process takes more than 5 months.....

My Sony loudspeakers (in both rooms) are much too linear going down to their lowest octaves, and I've only just recently (1 year ago) had them placed closer to the front walls under the advise of Dr Tsai (of Taiwan), so that they can better couple with the room boundaries to flesh out the deeper low frequencies.

Well, I very much appreciate the detailed feedback you’ve provided here. It sounds like you’re quite satisfied with the X350.8 which in my room size would be borderline overkill though one can never have too much headroom. I have two REL 212/SX subs and KRELL notoriously famous for the low end slam, right? I suspect the Pass Labs would be equal in this respect, possibly better. I imagine that amp throws off quite a bit of heat and the current draw not small! Thanks again!