Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[MarkusBarkus]

...the default filter on the DCD was kind-of pissing me off after the MSB board was added. Perhaps a wee bit less so on the Taiko Analog output.

The Alt2 seems to return me to audio bliss. I don't tend to do a lot of back-and-forth comparing long-term, so Default was great...until the birth of the new sonic paradigm, then it wasn't. Frankly, if you have the DCD, it's a good reminder to consider revisiting your base reference settings.

Likewise, I will take my own advice on the toe-in next week. Thanks to all...

 

[Steve Williams]

As an aside and referring to the DCD......powering my NAS via the DCD I find different flavors to the music in my NAS when I use different different filters (outputs) on the DCD.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...oh no. Help me Obi-wan.

 

[godofwealth]

As an aside and referring to the DCD......powering my NAS via the DCD I find different flavors to the music in my NAS when I use different different filters (outputs) on the DCD.

Not sure I want a NAS in my listening room. The ones I used to have were too noisy for my liking (old fashioned 3.5inch drives that were clunky slow and clattered away) and the fans were too audible. I threw all my old NAS’ in the Silicon Valley electronic waste program. Not going back to that ancient technology. Perhaps a liquid cooled all solid state NAS might be acceptable if someone creates such a beast. Since I run WiFi 7 in my house that’s crazy fast, I could stick a NAS in a closet where I keep my router.

 

[dminches]

Not sure I want a NAS in my listening room. The ones I used to have were too noisy for my liking (old fashioned 3.5inch drives that were clunky slow and clattered away) and the fans were too audible. I threw all my old NAS’ in the Silicon Valley electronic waste program. Not going back to that ancient technology. Perhaps a liquid cooled all solid state NAS might be acceptable if someone creates such a beast. Since I run WiFi 7 in my house that’s crazy fast, I could stick a NAS in a closet where I keep my router.

The NAS doesn’t need to be in the listening room. Mine isnt.

 

[Moladiego]

Emile
Can you tell us of those parts removed, how many were dedicated to the connections between v1 and daughter board?
If not, can you comment on the effect of removing those connections on the overall sound in v2?
Marc

No worries, I assumed you meant paralleled.

In the Olympus/XDMI environment we appear to have to reinvent everything. Every single component matters, significantly.

Can I get out of delving into the benefits vs drawbacks of paralleling DACs by just going with the following? :

In the “V2” (RCA) analogue stage we’ve so far reduced the component count from 100 to 70 while adding a second DAC chip turns that 70 into 108. The 70 components version sounds better then the 108 components version.

Emile, may I hope that the XDMI technology flows into other products that can conceivably benefit from it, e.g., a server that can process video signals (a Blu-ray disc tray added and allowing video streaming in all known video format, either as an expansion to Olympus or as a separate video/audio server); preamplier, and amplifier (or integrated amplifier)? Ideally, the future Taiko analog DAC board can also receive digital audio input. No matter how wonderful the Taiko analog DAC board is, I need an external DAC because I have a second digital source (a "purist" i2s-modded DVD transport for my large and expanding DVD/Blu-ray discs of operas and live classical music concerts, thanks to which I have enjoyed operas like never before, getting into 2nd-tier or even 3rd-tier Rossini and Donizetti operas. (I said before that the SQ from the modded DVD transport even surpassed the USB-connected Extreme thanks to the "purist" i2s connection between the transport and the DAC.) No audio recording can match the overall experience of engagement (the combined effect of video, production and acting as well as singing and orchestral performance) with the best recorded and performed operas in video format. Increasingly, orchestras and opera houses have gone into streaming business, e.g., Berlin Philharmonic's video "Digital Concert Hall" and MET Opera's "Live in HD". A future Taiko server that can stream such live video concert and opera performances would be the most perfect product.

 

[Kingsrule]

The NAS doesn’t need to be in the listening room. Mine isnt.

I find the NAS sounds best here plugged into the Taiko router vs. the house LAN, which in my setup is located with all my gear in the basement. However it's not plugged into the DCD yet as I need a higher current 12v supply, thinking the UpTone JS-2. NAS is QNAP TS 432-x with 4 16TB drives

 

[Moladiego]

Some of the best music ever written is in and for operas, the music of Wagner and Verdi, the two opera titans. I found Dvorak's Rusalka, for example, more interesting than his best symphonies (7, 8, 9). The opera music of Richard Strauss is more interesting and better than the music of his tone poems and other pure instrumental music. If one has not fully experienced Mozart's operas (as acted and produced in an opera house), one has not experienced the full glory of his music. The music of Janacek's and Britten's operas is among the best music ever written in the last century. There should be a significant demand for the very best video/audio server or player. If Taiko could come up with such server, it would be a dream product.

 

[cmarin]

No audio recording can match the overall experience of engagement (the combined effect of video, production and acting as well as singing and orchestral performance) with the best recorded and performed operas in video format.

Hi Moladiego,

Couldn't agree more! The most emotionally engaging audio experiences for me occurred with systems that did not have anywhere near the same superior audio reproduction quality as the Olympus but combined video output.

For me the first instance was hearing a cymbal played back in the audio layer of a dvd music file, then hearing and seeing the same dvd, but with the video showing the cymbal being struck. The increase in the fidelity and engagement was eye opening.

I fully second your motion to add a digital input to the Taiko Olympus!...But of course, all in good time!

God grant me patience right now!!

 

[Moladiego]

Hi Moladiego,

Couldn't agree more! The most emotionally engaging audio experiences for me occurred with systems that did not have anywhere near the same superior audio reproduction quality as the Olympus but combined video output.

For me the first instance was hearing a cymbal played back in the audio layer of a dvd music file, then hearing and seeing the same dvd, but with the video showing the cymbal being struck. The increase in the fidelity and engagement was eye opening.

I fully second your motion to add a digital input to the Taiko Olympus!...But of course, all in good time!

God grant me patience right now!!

Video discs like these set my hair on fire and I was in sheer ecstasy when I watched/listened to them via "purist" i2s-linled modded DVD player and H1 - the SQ, the crystal-clear video, the performance, the acting, the singing, the orchestral playing - I could not get such experience even in an opera house or concert hall unless I could somehow manage to be suspended from the ceiling and got my ears on the level of the stage, in row 8 or so (impossible in a real opera house; only in the listening room of mine).

Addendum: talking of the enhanced sensory impact; watching the principal trombonist and the drummist blowing and hitting their instruments in the first movement of Abbado/Lucerne Mahler 3 is way above the impact of listening to the audio tracks (BTW, I have the ripped audio tracks of that performance; the SQ from the i2s-connected DVD surpasses the SQ of the USB-connected Extreme).

 

[Steve Williams]

Not sure I want a NAS in my listening room. The ones I used to have were too noisy for my liking (old fashioned 3.5inch drives that were clunky slow and clattered away) and the fans were too audible. I threw all my old NAS’ in the Silicon Valley electronic waste program. Not going back to that ancient technology. Perhaps a liquid cooled all solid state NAS might be acceptable if someone creates such a beast. Since I run WiFi 7 in my house that’s crazy fast, I could stick a NAS in a closet where I keep my router.

mine was initially 100 feet away in a bedroom downstairs on a totally different router and played beautifully. I had no issues until my wife said it was a distraction for any guest staying there. My point, as David stated, it doesnt have to be there. in fact I wish mine still was as I had to go to the expense of buying the JS-2 to power it and the other devices by virtue of moving it back into the sound room

 

[godofwealth]

All Blu-Ray opera discs are multichannel. Not sure if Taiko or Lampi DACs plan to cater to multichannel sound. I play back all my multichannel SACDs (thousands of them) and Blu-Ray opera discs on my home theater setup with an Oppo 205D feeding into a Marantz AV 8802 running into Marantz multichannel amps. It’s mid-fi but sounds in many ways far superior to two-channel audio with the best components. Multichannel SACD has a spatial resolution that leaves two-channel audio in the dust. But let’s be realistic here. The vast majority of music of recorded history is available in two channel only. Some of the best recordings I own are mono vinyl. I’ve yet to hear a great jazz album recorded from 1920s-late 1950s that sounds better in digital than mono vinyl. So, I stick to a mono vinyl system, a stereo digital/analog system, and a multichannel audio home theater system. I try not to mix these.

I keep my home theater multichannel system far away from my two channel audio systems. It’s like oil and water. Multichannel home audio for home theater doesn’t mix well with two channel audio. Many high end manufacturers go to silly lengths to provide for compatibility by offering “theater” outputs (like my ARC 6SE), but I never use these. Sacrilege. My home theater is on a different floor of the house and will always remain so.

 

[Steve Williams]

I find the NAS sounds best here plugged into the Taiko router vs. the house LAN, which in my setup is located with all my gear in the basement. However it's not plugged into the DCD yet as I need a higher current 12v supply, thinking the UpTone JS-2. NAS is QNAP TS 432-x with 4 16TB drives

I have the TS 464 with 4 12 TB drives and the JS-s is a perfect and inexpensive solution and TBH the noise is minimal and not a distraction to me. Plus you can have fun with the open outlets of the DCD

 

[Moladiego]

All Blu-Ray opera discs are multichannel. Not sure if Taiko or Lampi DACs plan to cater to multichannel sound. I play back all my multichannel SACDs (thousands of them) and Blu-Ray opera discs on my home theater setup with an Oppo 205D feeding into a Marantz AV 8802 running into Marantz multichannel amps. It’s mid-fi but sounds in many ways far superior to two-channel audio with the best components. Multichannel SACD has a spatial resolution that leaves two-channel audio in the dust. But let’s be realistic here. The vast majority of music of recorded history is available in two channel only. Some of the best recordings I own are mono vinyl. I’ve yet to hear a great jazz album recorded from 1920s-late 1950s that sounds better in digital than mono vinyl. So, I stick to a mono vinyl system, a stereo digital/analog system, and a multichannel audio home theater system. I try not to mix these.

I keep my home theater multichannel system far away from my two channel audio systems. It’s like oil and water. Multichannel home audio for home theater doesn’t mix well with two channel audio. Many high end manufacturers go to silly lengths to provide for compatibility by offering “theater” outputs (like my ARC 6SE), but I never use these. Sacrilege. My home theater is on a different floor of the house and will always remain so.

I only listen to the stereo (2 channel) audio tracks, not 5.1 (or even 7.1) of the Blu-ray (or DVD) discs. No plan to set up a surround sound system. Keep life simpler (which is already complicated); a 65" LG OLED TV is planted between the speakers (don't care whether its presence degrades sound or not); the DVD transport is part of the audio system (the only system I have). These days I have used the DVD player much more often than Extreme - waiting for the eventual arrival of Olympus - because it is much more engaging given the overall effects I mentioned. Regardless, the DVD transport will remain an indispensable part of my system unless and until Taiko (or another manufacturer of similar quality) produces a video/audio server.

 

[ctydwn]

All Blu-Ray opera discs are multichannel. Not sure if Taiko or Lampi DACs plan to cater to multichannel sound. I play back all my multichannel SACDs (thousands of them) and Blu-Ray opera discs on my home theater setup with an Oppo 205D feeding into a Marantz AV 8802 running into Marantz multichannel amps. It’s mid-fi but sounds in many ways far superior to two-channel audio with the best components. Multichannel SACD has a spatial resolution that leaves two-channel audio in the dust. But let’s be realistic here. The vast majority of music of recorded history is available in two channel only. Some of the best recordings I own are mono vinyl. I’ve yet to hear a great jazz album recorded from 1920s-late 1950s that sounds better in digital than mono vinyl. So, I stick to a mono vinyl system, a stereo digital/analog system, and a multichannel audio home theater system. I try not to mix these.

I keep my home theater multichannel system far away from my two channel audio systems. It’s like oil and water. Multichannel home audio for home theater doesn’t mix well with two channel audio. Many high end manufacturers go to silly lengths to provide for compatibility by offering “theater” outputs (like my ARC 6SE), but I never use these. Sacrilege. My home theater is on a different floor of the house and will always remain so.

with all due respect, does not seem relevant to this Taiko Olympus thread

 

[Moladiego]

with all due respect, does not seem relevant to this Taiko Olympus thread

Mentioned all this because I am petitioning an extension of Olympus or XDMI technology to video and other products. There is a need. Enough said; we can move on. Happy New Year to all!

 

[nenon]

Happy New Year to everyone from me as well.
Below is some speculation from me, after reflecting on the difficult and challenging year for Taiko in 2024.

What products Taiko will release will be entirely driven by market demand and perception.

I see the XDMI analog on the Olympus as a product to test the market. It's already better than most high-end DACs out there, although it was designed to compete with DACs at the price range of an Aqua Formula DAC.

One of the intentions of the XDMI analog card was to get a better understanding of how easy or difficult it will be for new innovative technology to change what people have been taught about high-end audio over the years (typically from manufacturers that do very little to no innovation, distributors/dealers who get very healthy margins, and massive marketing campaigns).

We can already see massive resistance by a lot of people here. It does not have my favorite tube, so it can't match my current DAC. It does not have XX DAC chips (5000?) in parallel, so it can't be good. It's just a small board in a very noisy computer environment, and it can't be better than my DAC. It does not have the analog stage of my X or Y DAC, and it can't be that good. It does not have the fancy (5-digit priced) clock on my DAC, so it can't be taken seriously. The resistance from quite a few people here so far has been so big, that they refuse to pop in the XDMI analog card they have on hand and have a listen to it.

But as it always happens with innovative technology, there is always a massive pushback in the beginning, but the technology always wins in the end. Uber is a good example of a new technology that was difficult to accept. And look at Uber now... Not much in common with the Taiko Olympus XDMI of course other than both companies are "innovators" in their field.

A lot of pushback... and yet, almost everyone who dared to listen to the XDMI analog card has decided to stay with it and sell their previous favorite DAC. That includes a wide range of what were considered state-of-the-art DACs ranging from $50K to $150K and from quite a few really good manufacturers.

Some of these more open-minded, less dogmatic people, who trust their ears and nothing else, managed to sell their DAC, DAC power cord, and USB cable. They freed up a shelf or two or three on their rack, simplified their system, and have a better sound than ever. Some of them even kept a little cash in their pocket in the end.

Thanks to the acceptance and the feedback of these people, Emile got excited and motivated and is working on XDMI analog v2. That will not be something released to compete just with $10K-$20K DACs... And it won't be just a "different flavor". It will be an answer to the small but good XDMI analog acceptance and the natural next step this product evolves to.

But that's just the beginning. When I was in the Netherlands and talked to people in the Taiko R&D, one thing was clear to me. What people are hearing from their Olympus right now is barely scratching the surface of what's possible with the Olympus and XDMI. There are so many major improvements to come for this platform and an abundance of ideas of new things to try. Emile and others at Taiko just need more time to focus on R&D.

Here is what I expect:
XDMI analog v1 is already a giant killer.
XDMI analog v2 will shake the market.
XDMI analog v3 will become the first sophisticated XDMI analog release with all the functions people need, such as volume control, additional inputs, etc.

But these things take time. A lot of time. So, I am guessing XDMI v2 sometime in the second half of 2025 and XDMI v3 in (probably late) 2026?

Can Taiko jump on multichannel now? Makes no logical or business sense to me. Taiko will instead be focusing on other things, such as increasing the manufacturing output, reducing the lead time to days or weeks instead of many months, building some stock, etc. And of course, releasing updates and upgrades for the Olympus and Extreme.

I hope I am not way off with my assessment and speculation. Wishing a healthy and successful year to the Taiko team and everyone here.

 

[Moladiego]

@nenon , what you wrote is all wonderful to me. @Taiko Audio My hope is that analog3 will have an i2s input set (made of master clock (which is perhaps optional), bit clock, word clock and data) to match the same set of i2s outputs in my modded DVD players (2 so far), which i2s setup Lukasz has confirmed to be the best digital audio connection bar none (except of course the XDMI). Not saying i2s is necessarily the best; ideally it should be an XDMI input set, but there is no way that I could have an XDMI-equipped DVD transport unless Taiko produces an XDMI-equipped video server. The i2s set I have now (done in a purist direct coupling way) is the best I have heard so far (even better than the much more expensive USB-connected Extreme) with a set of 4x 1.0M special ribbon pairs (each with an individualized impedance value) connecting the DVD transport and H1. I am yet to get and hear my Olympus.

 

[Tuckia]

mine was initially 100 feet away in a bedroom downstairs on a totally different router and played beautifully. I had no issues until my wife said it was a distraction for any guest staying there. My point, as David stated, it doesnt have to be there. in fact I wish mine still was as I had to go to the expense of buying the JS-2 to power it and the other devices by virtue of moving it back into the sound room

Note to self. Relocate NAS to mother-in-law suite.

 

[cat6man]

Happy New Year to everyone from me as well.
Below is some speculation from me, after reflecting on the difficult and challenging year for Taiko in 2024.

But that's just the beginning. When I was in the Netherlands and talked to people in the Taiko R&D, one thing was clear to me. What people are hearing from their Olympus right now is barely scratching the surface of what's possible with the Olympus and XDMI. There are so many major improvements to come for this platform and an abundance of ideas of new things to try. Emile and others at Taiko just need more time to focus on R&D.

Here is what I expect:
XDMI analog v1 is already a giant killer.
XDMI analog v2 will shake the market.
XDMI analog v3 will become the first sophisticated XDMI analog release with all the functions people need, such as volume control, additional inputs, etc.

I hope I am not way off with my assessment and speculation. Wishing a healthy and successful year to the Taiko team and everyone here.

@nenon

thanks for sharing your thoughts on Olympus evolution in the coming year.

when you were visiting, did anything you saw/heard give you any ideas on evolution strategies/plans for the Extreme? i'm sure many of us are excited about the advances of XDMI but not if the Extreme does not have a parallel path forward (although at a lower altitude) due to allocation of resources.

another thought: an identified evolution path for the extreme will be beneficial in re-selling all the Extremes that were traded in by Olympus buyers.