Will RTR be around in 5 years?

MylesBAstor

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The bit I was interested in was why the classical music bods in the 1970s went to the trouble of direct-to-disc recording simply to avoid the tape stage - they apparently thought that tape was the weakest link in the recording chain. (Has that been beaten to death? I thought it was quite a good fact).

No, it had nothing to do with tape being bad; simply it was that you were removing one (or more) stages in the recording process. Of course, there were disadvantages to the D2D process too, primarily the inability to edit the performance as well as putting a lot of stress on the mastering engineer having to read/know the music as they works the lathe. I think even you can admit that one less gain stage in an electronic component is usually a positive move.

Plus there were very few companies recording classical D2D??? If you're referring to the early Telarcs, they are horrible. I think there were a couple on Crystal Clear and maybe a couple on M&K and Shefflield but not a whole lot more. BTW, the M&K [early] digital sonically stink compared to their LP releases. I also don't think the Sheffield classical don't sound very good either. They sound like they were recorded in a barn. Sid Marks wrote one of his first letters prior to joining TAS to HP criticizing the sound of the early Sheffield classical. So they weren't very good even before digital was a glimmer in the eye of the major record labels.

And then they went digital when that turned out better than the direct-to-disc. I then questioned whether they might change their minds today because of all the advances that have been made in tape recording since then. But there haven't been any, have there? As suggested by the same old specs as the 1970s.

In what alternative dimension was digital better than D2D? It's not even better than the best of ordinary vinyl. So what does that say about D2D? Everyone that I know thinks that the sound of a D2D LP is the penultimate.
 

MylesBAstor

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I would like to point I spent around usd 1500 on an old Studer A80 RC , less than 1000 in spares, re-lapped heads and service equipment, a few winter nights and several holiday days servicing the machine and usd 800 in a Bottlead tubed preamplifier kit - not bad for a source that with the best TapeProject tapes surpasses my vinyl and CD playback equipment.

That was a great deal Francisco!!!
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Groucho,

Surely - the temptation of such claim is legitimate. However the owner of the system is the last judge in this process and it seems many of us find that, although digital has some specif advantages over analog in sound reproduction in particular aspects, the final balance is still in favor of analog for ultimate quality sound reproduction. It seems we are in sufficient number and loud enough to upset those who do not agree, and love spending their time working hard and even building conspirator theories to explain our preference. ;)

Anyway, some people also state that 14 or 15 bits is sufficient for the consumer. Have you considered showing them reliable evidence that the 16 bits are really needed? IMHO, it is a much worthier cause than a few people love for RTRs. :)

BTW, I appreciated your comments about 24/192 - I currently do not own any HiRez equipment and my ego was needing some support.

By which I assume you mean that you personally prefer the sound of it, given that in hundreds of words on this board you've never produced any actual evidence to support this view.

Tim
 

Phelonious Ponk

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...and yes, RTR will be around in 5 years.

Tim
 

microstrip

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By which I assume you mean that you personally prefer the sound of it, given that in hundreds of words on this board you've never produced any actual evidence to support this view.
Tim

Several people with credentials I praise and are much better than mine have reported facts that I mostly agree with, I will not loose my time with you repeating them. It is not the first time I refer to RTR and TTP in WBF, if you are interested in my past opinions google the WBF site and dissect them.
 

rbbert

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...

In what alternative dimension was digital better than D2D? It's not even better than the best of ordinary vinyl. So what does that say about D2D? Everyone that I know thinks that the sound of a D2D LP is the penultimate.

I'm not evaluating whether they were right or wrong, but Telarc clearly thought digital (16/50, mind you, and only slightly editable) sounded better than D2D or analog tape.
 

MylesBAstor

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I'm not evaluating whether they were right or wrong, but Telarc clearly thought digital (16/50, mind you, and only slightly editable) sounded better than D2D or analog tape.

How do you separate out a business from a sonic decision?

Considering the sound of the LPs, perhaps the digital was an improvement. To be honest, I never liked the sound of Telarcs of any format. As a matter of fact, I don't own any Telarcs any more.
 

rbbert

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How do you separate out a business from a sonic decision?

Considering the sound of the LPs, perhaps the digital was an improvement. To be honest, I never liked the sound of Telarcs of any format. As a matter of fact, I don't own any Telarcs any more.

They do have some good sounding (IMO) SACD's from DSD masters, and over the years some of their CD's have sounded pretty good too. Like many labels, it often depended on the engineer and the venue.
 

Bruce B

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How do you separate out a business from a sonic decision?

Considering the sound of the LPs, perhaps the digital was an improvement. To be honest, I never liked the sound of Telarcs of any format. As a matter of fact, I don't own any Telarcs any more.

Teresa will beat you up!
 

MylesBAstor

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They do have some good sounding (IMO) SACD's from DSD masters, and over the years some of their CD's have sounded pretty good too. Like many labels, it often depended on the engineer and the venue.

Wish I could agree. In fact, classical might be the last thing that I'd listen to in digital format. Digital seem to do its best with small scale music read solo instruments. As the music/orchestration gets more complex, digital starts to fail.
 

Andre Marc

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Wish I could agree. In fact, classical might be the last thing that I'd listen to in digital format. Digital seem to do its best with small scale music read solo instruments. As the music/orchestration gets more complex, digital starts to fail.

That is an amazingly over reaching generalization that is strictly your opinion. That is the equivalent of some one saying that the quieter the music,
and the smaller the scale, vinyl fails due to the surface noise etc.
 

Andre Marc

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Wish I could agree. In fact, classical might be the last thing that I'd listen to in digital format. Digital seem to do its best with small scale music read solo instruments. As the music/orchestration gets more complex, digital starts to fail.

Perhaps Steve could chime in and say what he thought of my Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances SACD we played that had everyone "slack jawed" to use a well
worn cliche. On his PBD machine/Wilson/Lamm system it was some of the most convincing scale, texture, and coherence I have ever heard, bar none, and on a day when
we mixed in tape playback.
 

MylesBAstor

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That is an amazingly over reaching generalization that is strictly your opinion. That is the equivalent of some one saying that the quieter the music,
and the smaller the scale, vinyl fails due to the surface noise etc.

Andre when you move your speakers out of the corner, perhaps we can take your opinions seriously. Also, I'd love to see a review of that SOTA acoustical Rx.
 

MylesBAstor

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Perhaps Steve could chime in and say what he thought of my Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances SACD we played that had everyone "slack jawed" to use a well
worn cliche. On his PBD machine/Wilson/Lamm system it was some of the most convincing scale, texture, and coherence I have ever heard, bar none, and on a day when
we mixed in tape playback.

Well first of Mr. Smarty Pants, if it's the David Johanos recording that I think you're referring to (by the way, which accredited group granted you a professional license?), it's originally an analog recording. And you should hear the the second generation tape that I did, not to mention the original and reissued LP, before opening your mouth.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Perhaps Steve could chime in and say what he thought of my Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances SACD we played that had everyone "slack jawed" to use a well
worn cliche. On his PBD machine/Wilson/Lamm system it was some of the most convincing scale, texture, and coherence I have ever heard, bar none, and on a day when
we mixed in tape playback.

I've got the SACD, a 2xdsd file, the 45rpm and a 1/2" tape of it.

the 1/2" rules followed by the 45.

I also agree that the SACD and the 2xdsd are both wonderful in their own right.

the enemy of the very very good is the ...........

;)
 

Andre Marc

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Well first of Mr. Smarty Pants, if it's the David Johanos recording that I think you're referring to (by the way, which accredited group granted you a professional license?), it's originally an analog recording. And you should hear the the second generation tape that I did, not to mention the original and reissued LP, before opening your mouth.

No, I am referring to a native DSD recording:

 

Andre Marc

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I've got the SACD, a 2xdsd file, the 45rpm and a 1/2" tape of it.

the 1/2" rules followed by the 45.

I also agree that the SACD and the 2xdsd are both wonderful in their own right.

the enemy of the very very good is the ...........

;)

Different recording. See above.
 

Andre Marc

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Andre when you move your speakers out of the corner, perhaps we can take your opinions seriously. Also, I'd love to see a review of that SOTA acoustical Rx.

I will stop being Senor smarty pants when you desist from acting as a pseudo authority...especially on SACD.

Perhaps you can include the disclaimer "IMO" when you make definitive statements.
 

Andre Marc

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Andre when you move your speakers out of the corner, perhaps we can take your opinions seriously. Also, I'd love to see a review of that SOTA acoustical Rx.

BTW, that pic was taken just prior to construction in the room. Quiet Rock was installed subsequently and the room doubled in size. Nothing like Steve's SOTA room, and no lasers,
unfortunately.
 

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