Will RTR be around in 5 years?

[microstrip]

I think it'll be around as long as enough people with enough money like the way it sounds. Yes, it is terribly expensive to get into and there is a very limited catalog of software available, which, along with the hardware and maintenance, will only get more expensive over time. But expense is only a detriment until it begins to create a very high level of rarity and exclusivity and generate a very high level of desireability as a result. Then it becomes a benefit to those who can afford it. 20 years? Maybe. But then the generation who grew up on analog and cares about rotating reels begins to die off. It will become a really small club after that.

Tim

Tim,

Can you describe us the BEST reel-to-reel tape experience you ever had?

 

[rbbert]

The software problem is going to be a hard one to overcome. Simply, there's no was to speed up the production of real time, duped tapes (that's why records-->casettes-->CDs-->MP3 came around). There's a limit to the number of copies (IIRC it's six) someone like TTP can make at any one time. Others like Opus 3, Yarlung, Jonathan Horowitz, etc. only make one tape at a time. So take six dupes at a time, setup and checking and maintenance included, 200 subscribers and one can roughly calculate the time to make a run of tapes. Then people are always asking for older tapes so every so often TTP has to go back and make another run between titles (because of costs, they rarely have extra copies of titles laying around).

I think this will turn out to be a key point. Even back in the '60's when 7.5 ips tapes were "mass produced" and there were a number of blank tape manufacturers there were supply issues, but now with real-time copying of 15 ips tapes and the limited supply of blank tapes, it can only get worse. The real question is will there be enough demand to ensure supply (of tape and music) and I think that's an open question at this time.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,

Can you describe us the BEST reel-to-reel tape experience you ever had?

I worked in recording studios throughout the 1980s, micro, it would be a bit hard for me to narrow it down.

Tim

 

[microstrip]

I worked in recording studios throughout the 1980s, micro, it would be a bit hard for me to narrow it down.

Tim

Tim,
You always have an explanation not to answer direct questions. And yet you have a signature referring to facts ...

 

[rbbert]

I thought it was a pretty good answer...

 

[NorthStar]

With a direct question, there is a straight answer. :b

__________

* BONUS ::

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,
You always have an explanation not to answer direct questions. And yet you have a signature referring to facts ...

Those are the facts, micro. As an ad agency creative director and broadcast producer, I was in and out of studios all the time recording music, SFX, voice over. As a part-time musician I was in and out occasionally recording music of my own for band demos, etc. I was also involved in TV production on film in which Nagras were used to record SFX and dialogue, sometimes even VO on site. "Best" experience? I really couldn't say. My favorite part? Mix. That's where it all comes together and becomes something tangible. It can be long and almost tedious, but it is a monumental act of creation that is very satisfying even if you are, as I was, the guy sitting behind the guy at the desk, hands in pockets, talking instead of tweaking and hoping the guy with the real talent won't let you muck anything up.

The whole digital thing happened after I left that part of my career and moved to the next phase. In my production career, it was all analogue all the time. I do actually have a pretty good idea of what the stuff can do and where its weaknesses lie.

But my "best experience with tape?" You may be able to nail that down. I have hundreds of hours of experience with tape. I'm not even going to try.

Tim

 

[Groucho]

Do a search. This subject has been flogged to death already.

Huh? I was offering information, not requesting it...

Anyway, I've just realised I've got five R-to-R machines - none of them up to your standards of course, but they are:
Teac A3440
Akai (1960s, I think)
Tandberg (1970s probably)
Philips (1960s)
Ferrograph (1950s, with original manual and sales receipt)

I haven't used any of them in the last 20 years, however.

 

[microstrip]

Those are the facts, micro. As an ad agency creative director and broadcast producer, I was in and out of studios all the time recording music, SFX, voice over. As a part-time musician I was in and out occasionally recording music of my own for band demos, etc. I was also involved in TV production on film in which Nagras were used to record SFX and dialogue, sometimes even VO on site. "Best" experience? I really couldn't say. My favorite part? Mix. That's where it all comes together and becomes something tangible. It can be long and almost tedious, but it is a monumental act of creation that is very satisfying even if you are, as I was, the guy sitting behind the guy at the desk, hands in pockets, talking instead of tweaking and hoping the guy with the real talent won't let you muck anything up.

The whole digital thing happened after I left that part of my career and moved to the next phase. In my production career, it was all analogue all the time. I do actually have a pretty good idea of what the stuff can do and where its weaknesses lie.

But my "best experience with tape?" You may be able to nail that down. I have hundreds of hours of experience with tape. I'm not even going to try.

Tim

Tim,

Thanks. No recordings, no equipment, no rooms, no listening experiences you can use to illustrate your points. Just a general CV and knowing that you consider that "I do actually have a pretty good idea of what the stuff can do and where its weaknesses lie."
Do you want to tell us at less the recordings you have produced in your production career?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Huh? I was offering information, not requesting it...

Anyway, I've just realised I've got five R-to-R machines - none of them up to your standards of course, but they are:
Teac A3440
Akai (1960s, I think)
Tandberg (1970s probably)
Philips (1960s)
Ferrograph (1950s, with original manual and sales receipt)

I haven't used any of them in the last 20 years, however.

I used to have a 3440. That deck was a lot of fun. Of course today I have many times the power in Garage Band.

Tim

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,

Thanks. No recordings, no equipment, no rooms, no listening experiences you can use to illustrate your points. Just a general CV and knowing that you consider that "I do actually have a pretty good idea of what the stuff can do and where its weaknesses lie."
Do you want to tell us at less the recordings you have produced in your production career?

I already told you what I produced in my career, micro. Pay attention. Here:

Those are the facts, micro. As an ad agency creative director and broadcast producer, I was in and out of studios all the time recording music, SFX, voice over. As a part-time musician I was in and out occasionally recording music of my own for band demos, etc. I was also involved in TV production on film in which Nagras were used to record SFX and dialogue, sometimes even VO on site. "Best" experience? I really couldn't say. My favorite part? Mix. That's where it all comes together and becomes something tangible. It can be long and almost tedious, but it is a monumental act of creation that is very satisfying even if you are, as I was, the guy sitting behind the guy at the desk, hands in pockets, talking instead of tweaking and hoping the guy with the real talent won't let you muck anything up.

Clearly, I produced commercials. Radio and television commercials, to be precise. Doesn't hold a candle to working on a recognizable album or film, of course, but it's a bit closer to the source than being an audiophile on an internet discussion board.

Tim

 

[Greg Beron / UHA]

To answer the original question I do have some direct feedback from all the 6 shows I have done with R2R tape in the last 365 +/- days.

Capital Audiofest
RMAF
Axpona Chicago
Montreal Show
NYC Audio Show
THE Show Newport

NEWS: TAPE ENTHUSIASM IS GROWING!

There are more people seeking out R2R at the shows and it's not the same people, it's newbies. All manner of audiophiles are coming to hear for themselves and they are leaving impressed. Reviewers are leaving impressed and writing about it, look it up. There is great new coverage in major magazines and ezines.

The reason is simple as evidenced by previous posts, it sounds better. As an audio dealer I am fortunate enough to have access to the best of vinyl playback available and the R2R sounds better. I also have more master tape copies that I can possibly listen to, some truly great music and also great recordings.
I am so impressed by what I hear every day and in 5 years I'll predict it will be even better.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Tim,
You always have an explanation not to answer direct questions. And yet you have a signature referring to facts ...

reminds me of my early encounter with Tim about turntables. he claimed considerable knowledge and strong opinions about what high end vinyl could do or not do, but had no knowledge of any gear. he was a bit short on any specifics.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

What about those newbies that may not necessarily be in the market for $150,$200,$300 tapes and just want to enjoy going a little back in time by making compilations.?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Huh? I was offering information, not requesting it...

Anyway, I've just realised I've got five R-to-R machines - none of them up to your standards of course, but they are:
Teac A3440
Akai (1960s, I think)
Tandberg (1970s probably)
Philips (1960s)
Ferrograph (1950s, with original manual and sales receipt)

I haven't used any of them in the last 20 years, however.

None of that info is new here and has been beaten to death eg. What does it mean? In fact Ralph Karsten also posted on the meaninglessness of these distortion figures as it actually relates to the human ear. As a matter of fact, the same question can be asked of SET amps: why despite their relatively high by ss standard distortion figures, do they have an inescapable magical quality? So distortion figures don't tell the entire tale.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

reminds me of my early encounter with Tim about turntables. he claimed considerable knowledge and strong opinions about what high end vinyl could do or not do, but had no knowledge of any gear. he was a bit short on any specifics.

I believe that when those conversations occured, I gave you the brand names and models of a handful of tables I've heard in shops in recent years and a couple that belong to friends of mine, which I get to hear fairly often. That wasn't sufficient experience for you, as I recall, and that's ok. The limitatiosns of the medium are the foundation of my point of view. And of course I understand that you disagree. You believe that with sufficient turntable and cartridge quality and set up, information can be retrieved from the grooves of vinyl and heard, that cannot be quatified by any measurement known. That is the gist of our disagreement, not the number of turntables I have at my disposal to listen to.

Tim

 

[rbbert]

I do remember once in 1979 (Nov 23, in fact) when I recorded a concert with a pair of AKG 414's which unfortunately overloaded the mic inputs on my Tandberg TD10...

That's probably not the kind of R2R experience you're asking about, though...

 

[c1ferrari]

I want my digital to sound like vinyl*...
I want my vinyl to sound like tape**...

*AAA
**15/30 ips reel-to-reel

 

[NorthStar]

To answer the original question I do have some direct feedback from all the 6 shows I have done with R2R tape in the last 365 +/- days.

Capital Audiofest
RMAF
Axpona Chicago
Montreal Show
NYC Audio Show
THE Show Newport

NEWS: TAPE ENTHUSIASM IS GROWING!

There are more people seeking out R2R at the shows and it's not the same people, it's newbies. All manner of audiophiles are coming to hear for themselves and they are leaving impressed. Reviewers are leaving impressed and writing about it, look it up. There is great new coverage in major magazines and ezines.

The reason is simple as evidenced by previous posts, it sounds better. As an audio dealer I am fortunate enough to have access to the best of vinyl playback available and the R2R sounds better. I also have more master tape copies that I can possibly listen to, some truly great music and also great recordings.
I am so impressed by what I hear every day and in 5 years I'll predict it will be even better.

Hi Greg,

That's a great post, thanks for sharing. ...And I'm from the same 'calibration's measure' as you. ...Same view as in five years from now.
R2R is a great tool for musicians, and to make your own demos and share and listen to.

And as for already recorded music material; it's a search, and that search is part of the better audio sound quality fun.
...And way more interesting physically than downloading into your iPhone or iPad.

What's cool too is all the R2R tape decks out there looking for new homes with care and love, and just for few bucks and loving dedication time.
It is a creative tool, and as such it has true soul. ...Way more than anything else, like turntables and CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-ray players.
And! It is the music tool with the very best sound quality!

So yes, with time it will be rediscovered & reinvigorated all over again, by more and more people; just like the turntable.
And who knows; perhaps it will also supplant the turntable, eventually. ...Hey, still analog though.

* I've got to listen to Pink Floyd - 'Wish You Were Here' from Mike's (Lavigne) R2R tape. :b
{Mike, about a Herzan stable active isolation platform (table) under your R2R tape deck?}

 

[NorthStar]

I want my digital to sound like vinyl*...
I want my vinyl to sound like tape**...

*AAA
**15/30 ips reel-to-reel

...And I want my SS to sound like tubes. ...Emotional tubes.