Why aren't coaxial speakers more popular?

[AudioGod]

I mean if they're supposed to be better than "traditional" speakers
Why aren't they more popular with speaker designers and/ or audiophiles that buy speakers ?
Why doesn't Wilson Audio make a coaxial speaker for example ?

 

[landco]

Coaxial speakers are popular in cars where space for installing additional drivers is limited.

In home audio, coaxials are marketing, their benefits are exaggerated

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think the co-axial Tannoy Westminster Royal Gold is a great loudspeaker.

 

[AudioGod]

Coaxial speakers are popular in cars where space for installing additional drivers is limited.

In home audio, coaxials are marketing, their benefits are exaggerated

So KEF Uni-Q is no good ?

 

[ecwl]

Unfortunately I can’t find all the references I’ve read about coaxial speakers in the past.
But I think the Wikipedia one is pretty good?

One drawback of the design is the production line difficulty in mating the two drivers, and in replacing or reconing the woofer. Another drawback is that the low frequencies tend to modulate the high frequencies, causing greater intermodulation distortion.[6] The Tannoy style of coaxial, with the woofer forming part of the high frequency horn, had greater intermodulation distortion. Designs similar to the Altec 604 have further problems with diffraction of the low frequencies around the central horn, and with rearward emanations from the horn body reflected forward by the woofer out of time with direct sound. All of the problems with sound waves tend to increase with sound pressure level, causing significant shifts in tone as the loudspeaker changes volume.[7]

Obviously what Wikipedia quoted was pretty old. But even the high-end coaxial speakers all talk about how they work hard to solve all these problems. And I’m not totally sure if all the problems can be perfectly solved or just partially mitigated.

That said, I agree that TAD, KEF, Tannoy, Mofi all have a charming sound that is extremely enjoyable.

 

[AudioGod]

I'd put the KEF Blade Meta and TAD coaxials against speakers costing x3 times their price all day long
Obviously it's harder getting coaxial drivers right than it is "traditional " drivers but they also have their benefits that traditional speakers just can't match

 

[Audiohertz2]

There are different types of coaxial drivers , with differing performance advantages and disadvantages .

A. Basic with center whizzer cone
B with internal center dome tweeter
C. With tweeter bridge in front of woofer

Regardless of which , the weakest point is when attempting to do large format reproduction..

In a Limit bandwidth or SPL situation they can be very formidable and since most large format speakers today (using small speaker tech to build large ) are basically using a single midrange driver and one ,1” dome tweeter surrounded by multiple woofers there is no real advantage over the coaxial on small format recordings ..!

Small typical listening room , low power , simple crossovers, makes them competitive ..!

Big room large format recordings , big power , not so much ..!


Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

I'd put the KEF Blade Meta and TAD coaxials against speakers costing x3 times their price all day long
Obviously it's harder getting coaxial drivers right than it is "traditional " drivers but they also have their benefits that traditional speakers just can't match

Actually getting a single driver coaxial to work is way simpler than a multi driver format , the complexities are off the chart in comparison.

Its like comparing sealed bass over ported, sealed is kindergarten difficult vs ported.


Regards

 

[AudioGod]

Actually getting a single driver coaxial to work is way simpler than a multi driver format , the complexities are off the chart in comparison.

Its like comparing sealed bass over ported, sealed is kindergarten difficult vs ported.


Regards

Not really
That's why there are very few really good high end coaxials (Like I said -mostly KEF and TAD )
All the others are pretty irrelevant.
It's easier to stick some drivers in the same cabinet together than it is to design the perfect coaxial driver , That's why there are so few companies that even try doing it.
Most high end companies , Wilson Audio , B&W ,.Vivid Audio etc don't even attempt to do a coaxial .

 

[leyenda]

people want to see an array of drivers to justify the price paid, it's not about the sound...

 

[BR549]

I suspect it's like every speaker design - it depends on the implementation, skill of the designer, materials, quality of execution, etc. Listening to the TAD R-1s right now and they sound awesome. No idea if they are harder or easier to implement, but I love mine (and I loved the CR-1s before them).

 

[Audiohertz2]

Not really
That's why there are very few really good high end coaxials (Like I said -mostly KEF and TAD )
All the others are pretty irrelevant.
It's easier to stick some drivers in the same cabinet together than it is to design the perfect coaxial driver , That's why there are so few companies that even try doing it.
Most high end companies , Wilson Audio , B&W ,.Vivid Audio etc don't even attempt to do a coaxial .

Because of their limited Performance envelope vs multiple drivers ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

people want to see an array of drivers to justify the price paid, it's not about the sound...

There are good and bad implementation of all types ..!

 

[AudioHR]

I suspect it's like every speaker design - it depends on the implementation, skill of the designer, materials, quality of execution, etc. Listening to the TAD R-1s right now and they sound awesome. No idea if they are harder or easier to implement, but I love mine (and I loved the CR-1s before them).

There are pro and con to every design. I think you are correct it is the inspiration, knowledge and skill of the designer and the quality of the execution that is important.

 

[AudioHR]

There are different types of coaxial drivers , with differing performance advantages and disadvantages .

A. Basic with center whizzer cone
B with internal center dome tweeter
C. With tweeter bridge in front of woofer

Regardless of which , the weakest point is when attempting to do large format reproduction..

In a Limit bandwidth or SPL situation they can be very formidable and since most large format speakers today (using small speaker tech to build large ) are basically using a single midrange driver and one ,1” dome tweeter surrounded by multiple woofers there is no real advantage over the coaxial on small format recordings ..!

Small typical listening room , low power , simple crossovers, makes them competitive ..!

Big room large format recordings , big power , not so much ..!


Regards

Could you clarify what you mean by big room large format recordings, big power....

 

[AudioHR]

Unfortunately I can’t find all the references I’ve read about coaxial speakers in the past.
But I think the Wikipedia one is pretty good?

One drawback of the design is the production line difficulty in mating the two drivers, and in replacing or reconing the woofer. Another drawback is that the low frequencies tend to modulate the high frequencies, causing greater intermodulation distortion.[6] The Tannoy style of coaxial, with the woofer forming part of the high frequency horn, had greater intermodulation distortion. Designs similar to the Altec 604 have further problems with diffraction of the low frequencies around the central horn, and with rearward emanations from the horn body reflected forward by the woofer out of time with direct sound. All of the problems with sound waves tend to increase with sound pressure level, causing significant shifts in tone as the loudspeaker changes volume.[7]

Obviously what Wikipedia quoted was pretty old. But even the high-end coaxial speakers all talk about how they work hard to solve all these problems. And I’m not totally sure if all the problems can be perfectly solved or just partially mitigated.

That said, I agree that TAD, KEF, Tannoy, Mofi all have a charming sound that is extremely enjoyable.

I suspect that all speakers designers work hard to solve or mitigate the problems inherent in their chosen type of speaker.

 

[KPC]

The OPs question seems to be point-source theoretically superior by coming from a single point vs subjective sonic speaker preferences.

The vast majority of speakers use separate transducers- tweeters, midrange. Many speaker manufacturers use third party transducers like from ScanSpeak and SEAS. Creating a high-end point source from scratch is costly, but if demand was there for this particular tech we’d likely see more offerings. Other speaker designs give acceptable soundstage and tweeter+midrange sonics, so no market pressure to change.

I’m a big Andrew Jones fan and plan purchase his MoFi SoucePoint 10. I saw/heard a SourcePoint with a vintage Sansui receiver and now I got that bug- wanting to own a gorgeous vintage receiver but can’t quite justify it vs today’s sonic offerings.

If point source sonics were “significantly” superior, you’d surely hear that from our deeply knowledgeable forum members.

 

[AudioGod]

The OPs question seems to be point-source theoretically superior by coming from a single point vs subjective sonic speaker preferences.

The vast majority of speakers use separate transducers- tweeters, midrange. Many speaker manufacturers use third party transducers like from ScanSpeak and SEAS. Creating a high-end point source from scratch is costly, but if demand was there for this particular tech we’d likely see more offerings. Other speaker designs give acceptable soundstage and tweeter+midrange sonics, so no market pressure to change.

I’m a big Andrew Jones fan and plan purchase his MoFi SoucePoint 10. I saw/heard a SourcePoint with a vintage Sansui receiver and now I got that bug- wanting to own a gorgeous vintage receiver but can’t quite justify it vs today’s sonic offerings.

If point source sonics were “significantly” superior, you’d surely hear that from our deeply knowledgeable forum members.

It is superior
Just listen to some TAD speaekrs or KEF Blade Meta

 

[AudioHR]

For those that find the sound of co -axial speakers compelling I would suggest listening to the Coherent Neo 18 speakers. Built by a master craftsman the design is innovative yet simple and takes the co-axial design's inherent sound to the next level IMHO.

 

[KPC]

Allow me to clarify, “significantly” superior - perhaps I should have used “subjectively”. I meant that the pointsource 3d sonic advantage is not good enough motivate others to displace 3d soundstages of other designs. True the pointsource should sound better, but it isn’t enough to warrant change.