What's the best sports convertible for $60K in cash, new or used?

[Mike Lavigne]

Personally, looking for a roadster, I'd buy a the cleanest S2000 I could find and pocket the rest.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...sh-new-or-used&p=153138&viewfull=1#post153138

 

[Bill Hart]

Personally, looking for a roadster, I'd buy a the cleanest S2000 I could find and pocket the rest.

You'll need big pockets, the early ones are dirt cheap, and were more edgy, as I recall.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You'll need big pockets, the early ones are dirt cheap, and were more edgy, as I recall.

the great thing about an S2000 is that you don't have to go fast to enjoy one; but it can go fast when you are in the mood. and it's so nimble and balanced; even with stock tires and wheels. lightweight 240BHP 4 cylinder, mid-engined, great transmission, stiff chassis, sounds great, top comes down. how far wrong can you go with that?

early one's are not edgy unless they were hammered. OTOH the later ones have a bit more grunt down low, but don't quite rev as freely as early ones.

 

[Bill Hart]

the great thing about an S2000 is that you don't have to go fast to enjoy one; but it can go fast when you are in the mood. and it's so nimble and balanced; even with stock tires and wheels. lightweight 240BHP 4 cylinder, mid-engined, great transmission, stiff chassis, sounds great, top comes down. how far wrong can you go with that?

early one's are not edgy unless they were hammered. OTOH the later ones have a bit more grunt down low, but don't quite rev as freely as early ones.

I'm all about slow car fast- love little nimble cars. Then again, I have been considering a Morgan 3 wheeler, I promised my wife no more motorcycles, but technically, it's not a motorcycle.....

 

[A.wayne]

Neat car, matter of taste.

Like everything in life, I have friends who dont like early 911's anyway Drive one for a week, you wont look back , more fun than a boxster or Cayman, too ....

 

[A.wayne]

the great thing about an S2000 is that you don't have to go fast to enjoy one; but it can go fast when you are in the mood. and it's so nimble and balanced; even with stock tires and wheels. lightweight 240BHP 4 cylinder, mid-engined, great transmission, stiff chassis, sounds great, top comes down. how far wrong can you go with that?

early one's are not edgy unless they were hammered. OTOH the later ones have a bit more grunt down low, but don't quite rev as freely as early ones.

True , but ohhh so japanese and too slow for my taste, for slow with personality, I would prefer a fully restored TR6 .......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triu...5100473?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2326389fb9

If you like driving sideways ...I do ...!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-...3896811?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item460b18f96b

 

[audioarcher]

If it's too slow just mod it. Any of these slower cars can be hot rodded. Lots of aftermarket parts and packages out there.

 

[A.wayne]

Nothing much to an S2000 better to get a BMW Z8( pricey ) if you want to go faster than dump cash into an S2000...


Lotus's anyone .....

 

[audioarcher]

I'm not advocating a S2000 per say. I just think you should pick a car that you like and if it's lacking in the power department then that is fixable.

 

[Bill Hart]

Like everything in life, I have friends who dont like early 911's anyway Drive one for a week, you wont look back , more fun than a boxster or Cayman, too ....

I drove a few 'normal' 914's back in the day, quite fun, never drove a /6 or a franken version. For street driving (not talking about a track car) , after having owned lot's of uber sports cars with 12 cylinders and the like (including a GT2), I'm less interested in brutal speed or torque. I'd rather have good road feel, balance, light, small, nimble and a little character. Perhaps a hot-rodded 914 checks most of those boxes, I don't mind the looks either. But, and this is why I said it's a matter of taste, an earlier 911 rings more bells for me.

 

[Bill Hart]

I'm not advocating a S2000 per say. I just think you should pick a car that you like and if it's lacking in the power department then that is fixable.

This is another area where Porsche just shines. While it won't win a concours, or get points for originality, there is a huge aftermarket for parts, upgrades and whole engines to monsterize older Porsches. I used to see the Porsche club guys run when I'd go to Limerock on Ferrari days- there were cars with crazy power and they didn't cost an arm and a leg (to build, not saying that they were the safest things to drive, particularly on the street). While I'd rather have a completely unmolested original car, i certainly 'get' the 'why' of modding. I've also seen some pretty well done conversions to 'RS' type Porsches some of which are quite cool, especially when you factor in what a real one would cost.

 

[A.wayne]

I drove a few 'normal' 914's back in the day, quite fun, never drove a /6 or a franken version. For street driving (not talking about a track car) , after having owned lot's of uber sports cars with 12 cylinders and the like (including a GT2), I'm less interested in brutal speed or torque. I'd rather have good road feel, balance, light, small, nimble and a little character. Perhaps a hot-rodded 914 checks most of those boxes, I don't mind the looks either. But, and this is why I said it's a matter of taste, an earlier 911 rings more bells for me.

I know , hence why i recommended the cars above, good drivers for fun, a 914-6 is a different animal from a box stock 914-4 , Put one up for sale and deh zeeermans dont stop calling , I like early 911's , all right up to 993's none are as much fun as the 914-6 was, not even close for driving excitement and feel, as you I'm no longer into mucho hp/TQ myself after years of running really fast cars, yet , there is a min balance for me for the car to be exciting ....

 

[Shaffer]

Nothing much to an S2000 better to get a BMW Z8( pricey ) if you want to go faster than dump cash into an S2000...


Lotus's anyone .....

The Z8 has the dynamics of a tractor. Looks nice, though.

 

[Bill Hart]

The Z8 has the dynamics of a tractor. Looks nice, though.

Not sure they are even the same kind of car- I know the Z8 was inspired by the 507 (a car that was once, if not cheap, at least gettable by mortals), but to me, I always thought of it as a tourer, a little soft. And the versions that were made after BMW officially quit- the Alpina? didn't even have sticks, did they?
To me, they are in the same category as newer Maseratis, very nice to look at, and driven by trophy wives from NJ. Not that there is anything wrong with any of that...

 

[tdh888]

Has anyone in this thread tried the BMW Z3 M Roadster you will be surprised how good it is. Not to sterile like a new sports car, still has the hooligan attitude very tail happy because of its E30 rear end and fantastic exhaust note specially if its a euro model w/ the individual throttle body. I have not tried the USA version though. Maybe even a joy to drive compared to a boxster s model of the same era. If more hard core try the M coupe but not everybdy will be pleased by its styling.

 

[Old Listener]

Has anyone in this thread tried the BMW Z3 M Roadster you will be surprised how good it is. Not to sterile like a new sports car, still has the hooligan attitude very tail happy because of its E30 rear end and fantastic exhaust note specially if its a euro model w/ the individual throttle body. I have not tried the USA version though. Maybe even a joy to drive compared to a boxster s model of the same era. If more hard core try the M coupe but not everybdy will be pleased by its styling.

We've had a 2001 M Roadster (Z3 based) for 10 years. The 2001 and 2002 USA models had a 315 HP S54 engine similar to that in the E46 M3 cars of the same years. Earlier models had a 240 HP S52 engine as used in the E36 M3 cars.

The engine has a very flat torque curve and yet it revs quickly over 7500 RPM. Sounds great with the top down. It purrs at low to medium RPMs and screams at high RPMs. I test drove a Boxster S before buying the BMW and felt that the Boxster engine was not very entertaining in comparison.

The steering is quick, precise and provides nice feedback. The semi-trailing rear suspension certainly has lower limits than a more modern suspension and behavior at the limit is less docile but on public roads the suspension works very well. The car is short and narrow so it has a very snug, personal feeling inside. Back roads feel wider than they would if I were driving a Corvette. Just driving around town is a sensual pleasure in the M Roadster. We take back roads whenever possible in the BMW to enjoy the car more completely.

The M Roadster's beltline is lower than that of most modern cars. I can rest my elbow on the door and my 5 foot tall wife has good visibility.

Our M Roadster still has under 28,000 miles so we'll probably be driving it until we can't drive anymore. We use a hot hatch (Subaru WRX and now a VW GTI) for most daily driving and long trips so we don't put very many junk miles on the M Roadster. My wife urges me to rent a Boxster (and a few other cars as well) to get a taste of owning one.

The M coupe is much more rigid than the Roadster. However, reinforcing the differential mount and replacing the factory sub-frame bushings with stiffer after-market bushings improves the Roadster's handling.

The Boxster has better handling than the M Roadster. I considered a Boxster as an alternative but the prospect of very expensive services and repairs was a bit daunting. Even a BMW can be more expensive than I'd like to drive. Sometimes being comfortable with the cost of ownership is more important than going for the "best". Having a very good convertible sports car has been a joy.

Bill

 

[DaveyF]

Has anyone in this thread tried the BMW Z3 M Roadster you will be surprised how good it is. Not to sterile like a new sports car, still has the hooligan attitude very tail happy because of its E30 rear end and fantastic exhaust note specially if its a euro model w/ the individual throttle body. I have not tried the USA version though. Maybe even a joy to drive compared to a boxster s model of the same era. If more hard core try the M coupe but not everybdy will be pleased by its styling.

I drove a friends Z3 M roadster at speed and I thought it was one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven. The front end wants to plow and the rear end wants to swap ends. IIRC, one of the test drivers for a euro mag felt the same thing and panned the car. I think BMW themselves knew this and tried to correct these issues with the Z4.
Bill, I used to own a 86 911 S, very nice car indeed and one STRONG motor.. now I'm a 356 fan. The 356 is pretty slow compared to just about anything else on the road today ( although when you drive one, you think you are going 120mph even when you are only doing 45mph), BUT if you like the feel of a car on the road, hard to beat. Just make sure you don't lift in the corners

 

[A.wayne]

I guess you guys have never driven an Z8 ...

There is nothing tractor like about them , same as modern Maserati's , drivers cars , nothing girlie or tractor like about them ..

Whats to hate about a car that will swap ends with you ...

 

[Old Listener]

I drove a friends Z3 M roadster at speed and I thought it was one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven.

That seems to be a ridiculous statement. Perhaps you could describe a slightly better but still poorly handling car you have driven.

> The front end wants to plow and the rear end wants to swap ends.

BMW recommended higher pressure for rear tires than for front tires. I keep front tires pressure 2 or 3 pounds higher than the rears. The result is quite close to neutral handling by my standards. Coming from a Porsche 356, your sense of neutral handling might be different from mine.

Even when I do something to provoke tail out behavior, the M Roadster behaves rather mildly. The most tail happy car I've driven lately was a first generation Mazda Miata. At a moderate speed on a tight downhill corner, the tail came out fast and hard at a speed that would have been completely routine in an M Roadster. Time for some opposite lock! Does that make the Miata a bad car? I've never heard anyone say that about a Miata. However, if you are going to drive a Miata, you need to understand its limits and its behavior near them.

With any fast car, you have to exercise some judgement about the speed to enter a corner. Miscalculate badly and you are probably going off the road. It doesn't matter much whether you go off the road front end first or rear end first. The important thing is to avoid going off the road. You have to know your car and read corners as you approach them. You'd better have the appropriate reactions for your car's behavior down pat if you are going to drive near the limit.

> IIRC, one of the test drivers for a euro mag felt the same thing and panned the car.

And I've seen lots of reviews that had a favorable verdict on the M Roadster. By any objective standard, a 356 Porsche has lower corning limits, less benign behavior at the limit and is dead slow in comparison. You seem to be using criteria rather selectively.

> I think BMW themselves knew this and tried to correct these issues with the Z4.

The Z3 appeared in 1996 and was based on a 3-series hatchback model with the E30 suspension (the 318T?). When the Z4 was designed years later, BMW based its suspension on the then current suspension from the E46 3 series sedans. They also used new technology to produce a much more rigid body. No mystery there. Technology marches on.

> The 356 is pretty slow
> Just make sure you don't lift in the corners

You seem a bit inconsistent. The M Roadster's behavior when you lift the throttle in a corner is less extreme than that of a 356 Porsche or even a early 911 which had trailing arm rear suspension. Somehow you find no fault with the swing axle in the 356 Porsche and yet you ding the Z3 which has a better design.

---
I made no attempt to say that my choice was better than anyone else's. I described my car from my experience. Davef is free to enjoy his choice and describe it.

Bill

 

[Keith_W]

I drove a friends Z3 M roadster at speed and I thought it was one of the worst handling cars I have ever driven. The front end wants to plow and the rear end wants to swap ends.

I would tend to agree with you. The Z3 had the front suspension of the E36 and the rear suspension of the E30. The car wasn't very rigid and I found it difficult to predict exactly what the car was going to do. Strangely, the E30 and the E36 were both beautiful handling cars but the Z3 was really quite disappointing.