Weiss dac501 or Bartok for Vitus RI-101 mkII

[eskamobob1]

Hi
Helene is far from bright by any means.
You mentioned that you used xlr output with pseudobalanced input of Genus.Helene xlr being floating output is incompatible with pseudobalanced(Genus xlr input is pseudobalanced) as this creates high pass filter which you will get tilting freq responce which is audible from first seconds.Strange that you were hearing with this connection for days(floating xlr into pseudobalanced ....
Rca connection only when no true xlr input is present.This is what i adviced,not that Helene is bright

Mind if I ask for some clarification on what a pasudo balanced input and floating balanced output are? Are tjose just SE signals over a balanced connector? Or something more complicated?

 

[Aries Cerat]

Mind if I ask for some clarification on what a pasudo balanced input and floating balanced output are? Are tjose just SE signals over a balanced connector? Or something more complicated?

Hi

Thanks for the question.

So, the Helene(and Kassandra) have the output tranformer secondary as floating windings, to drive both the RCA and XLR. In this case, the pin2 and pin3 on xlr do have true balanced output.There is no ground reference when xlr output is used (as it should it balanced interconnections)

If you drive RCA or true XLR inputs, you have no problem,

Problem arises if, you use pseudobalanced inputs with a floating secondary via xlr( pseudobalanced for example is when pin2 is used, and pin 1 as ground, Pin3 is unused.)
In this case, the secondary is not terminated(since pin3 is not used) and no signal transmission is made. However, there is capacitive coupling but only for high and med frequencies. The capacitive coupling (from parasitic capacitance of the windings) means this case you will have sound (even though there is no electrical conduction!! from the cables, pin3 is unused remember) but the with much rising response vs frequency. In other words, you do not have sound from actual signal conduction from the dac, but a signal "bleed" .

In short, in the presence of true xlr and RCA, use whatever you prefer . But avoid pseudobalanced inputs /floating outputs like a plague

Cheers
Stavros

 

[sajihassan]

Yeah even with RCA it was a tad brighter than MSB. may be the cables were one of the reason. I used audioquest Yukon rca cables. The Helene is having more three dimensional feeling than the MSB as i mentioned earlier. I have purchased the Helene and waiting. Please help me to get the unit fast.

 

[Aries Cerat]

Yeah even with RCA it was brighter than MSB. may be the cables were one of the reason. I used audioquest Yukon rca cables. But i have purchased the Helene and waiting. Please help me to get the unit fast.

Hello Saji

Thanks for feedback
Yes we reserved a unit on last batch.

I would change tube bias before changing cables It makes bigger difference.

Best
Stavros

 

[sajihassan]

Genus is my first tube amplifier. I don't know much about tubes. Can you please suggest me whether to increase or decrease the bias to get a more smoother sound.

 

[Argonaut]

Genus is my first tube amplifier. I don't know much about tubes. Can you please suggest me whether to increase or decrease the bias to get a more smoother sound.

Please refer to your Genus Instruction manual , there will be referenced a Minimum / Maximum recommended bias range … I would suggest starting at the minimum setting and slowly increase the value until you reach a setting that sounds Best To You .

I would recommend that you take your time between increments in order to let the valves settle into their new settings before commencing critical listening evaluation

 

[eskamobob1]

Hi

Thanks for the question.

So, the Helene(and Kassandra) have the output tranformer secondary as floating windings, to drive both the RCA and XLR. In this case, the pin2 and pin3 on xlr do have true balanced output.There is no ground reference when xlr output is used (as it should it balanced interconnections)

If you drive RCA or true XLR inputs, you have no problem,

Problem arises if, you use pseudobalanced inputs with a floating secondary via xlr( pseudobalanced for example is when pin2 is used, and pin 1 as ground, Pin3 is unused.)
In this case, the secondary is not terminated(since pin3 is not used) and no signal transmission is made. However, there is capacitive coupling but only for high and med frequencies. The capacitive coupling (from parasitic capacitance of the windings) means this case you will have sound (even though there is no electrical conduction!! from the cables, pin3 is unused remember) but the with much rising response vs frequency. In other words, you do not have sound from actual signal conduction from the dac, but a signal "bleed" .

In short, in the presence of true xlr and RCA, use whatever you prefer . But avoid pseudobalanced inputs /floating outputs like a plague

Cheers
Stavros

Awesome super clear explanation. Thank you!

Just as a follow up, the helena and kisandra (at least the one box one?) are internaly SE and just use a transformer to make the differential signal?

 

[Aries Cerat]

Awesome super clear explanation. Thank you!

Just as a follow up, the helena and kisandra (at least the one box one?) are internaly SE and just use a transformer to make the differential signal?

Hi
Kassandra da banks are differential current converter banks.the IV transformer converts the balanced current to SE voltage to drive the SE tube stage.The tube stage has output transformer that can output both SE or balanced output at same time (but not simultaneously)

Helene da banks are SE current output.(output stage is about same configuration)


Cheers
S

 

[sajihassan]

Please let me know what is the advantage of the XLR output in the helene dac. Also only the RCA output can be used.

 

[eskamobob1]

Hi
Kassandra da banks are differential current converter banks.the IV transformer converts the balanced current to SE voltage to drive the SE tube stage.The tube stage has output transformer that can output both SE or balanced output at same time (but not simultaneously)

Helene da banks are SE current output.(output stage is about same configuration)


Cheers
S

Tyvm! That clears things up a fair bit. I hadn't realized that the kissandra was differential before the output stage tbh

 

[Aries Cerat]

Please let me know what is the advantage of the XLR output in the helene dac. Also only the RCA output can be used.

There is no advantage of xlr vs Rca , use what your amp/pre likes best.If your preamp sounds better when fed with balanced,( again True balanced not pseudo) ,then use xlr.If your preamp sounds better in SE ,use RCA.Simple as that. Which is better is preamp/integrated dependent.
In our AC ecosystem,RCA sounds best.

Cheers

 

[sajihassan]

There is no advantage of xlr vs Rca , use what your amp/pre likes best.If your preamp sounds better when fed with balanced,( again True balanced not pseudo) ,then use xlr.If your preamp sounds better in SE ,use RCA.Simple as that. Which is better is preamp/integrated dependent.
In our AC ecosystem,RCA sounds best.

Cheers

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Kingrex]

I had a MSB Discrete with remote power base in my system. Also tried a USB isolator with it. I was absolutely convinced when I put the DAC in that it had to be better than what I had. Its MSB, right. After a week it finally hit me that my Mojo Audio Mystique V3 was actually an all around better DAC.

About a month ago I wrote my Mojo DAC was rebuilt after a OTL preamp I was trying blew a tube and burned up the chip in my DAC. My Mojo Audio DAC is now basically a B4B version. And its crap loads better than before. I bet the demo X-SE on his website for $8k would be indistinguishable from an MSB Reference. But hey, the MSB is $54k and has braging rights.

 

[Ricco275]

I had a MSB Discrete with remote power base in my system. Also tried a USB isolator with it. I was absolutely convinced when I put the DAC in that it had to be better than what I had. Its MSB, right. After a week it finally hit me that my Mojo Audio Mystique V3 was actually an all around better DAC.

About a month ago I wrote my Mojo DAC was rebuilt after a OTL preamp I was trying blew a tube and burned up the chip in my DAC. My Mojo Audio DAC is now basically a B4B version. And its crap loads better than before. I bet the demo X-SE on his website for $8k would be indistinguishable from an MSB Reference. But hey, the MSB is $54k and has braging rights.

I hear you. Sometimes big names play a reassuring role beside the obvious placebo effect.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I bet the demo X-SE on his website for $8k would be indistinguishable from an MSB Reference. But hey, the MSB is $54k and has braging rights. (...)

No need to bet. Some people say that all decently designed electronics sounds the same. The problem is that in this forum most people think otherwise ...

 

[lordcloud]

I had a MSB Discrete with remote power base in my system. Also tried a USB isolator with it. I was absolutely convinced when I put the DAC in that it had to be better than what I had. Its MSB, right. After a week it finally hit me that my Mojo Audio Mystique V3 was actually an all around better DAC.

About a month ago I wrote my Mojo DAC was rebuilt after a OTL preamp I was trying blew a tube and burned up the chip in my DAC. My Mojo Audio DAC is now basically a B4B version. And its crap loads better than before. I bet the demo X-SE on his website for $8k would be indistinguishable from an MSB Reference. But hey, the MSB is $54k and has braging rights.

I'm looking at getting a new dac, and the Discrete was on my list as a possible.

Can you describe the difference in sound between the Discrete and the Mojo?

 

[Kingrex]

I'm looking at getting a new dac, and the Discrete was on my list as a possible.

Can you describe the difference in sound between the Discrete and the Mojo?

More than anything they were similar. Hard to tall apart. That was the Mystique V3 to Discrete. The updated Mojo version is more like vinyl. Its definitely more organic and flowing. A little denser. That does not mean it lacks resolution. Its no DCS. But you will never find it analytical and hard. Sound stage is wide and expansive. You hear good placement of musicians. Its a well machined case with a lot of high quality parts inside.
I don't know why, but Mojo Audio says, put a good spinner like the Jays Audio CD3 MK3 in front of it with AES connection and the USB via a streamer will sound broken. I could not be happier with it set up USB and streaming in my system. I can only imagine if I took his advise and got a good transport.

 

[Ricco275]

Just to update the thread saying I went for the MSB Discrete and I’m happy with it in my chain. I’m sure there’s better out there, this is what satisfied me more amongst what I have listened.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Just to update the thread saying I went for the MSB Discrete and I’m happy with it in my chain. I’m sure there’s better out there, this is what satisfied me more amongst what I have listened.

Congratulations! (MSB is my favorite solid-state DAC.)