Violin videos: solo or with small ensemble

[Rexp]

As usual you seem to miss the point. To clarify, in this case I was illustrating our ability/inability to discern differences between more / less musical playback configs and presentations - which by no means requires identical recordings and environments. For at least some of us. After all a music presentation is either genuinely musical or it is not – with many shades of gray, right?


Praise from whom? You mean feedback on youtube from the consensus of whom you’ve no idea if their listening skill levels are greater/less than your own? Maybe such things don’t matter to some? Are you saying so long as it tickles your ear and others agree, you’re good? What kind of a reference is that?

I’m not saying that’s not already happening, but seriously what kind of reference is that? It beats a stick in the eye sure. It’s certainly better than one like yourself or Al M attempting to cast a shadow on ALL of my videos because you’re unable to discern between unnatural room reverb and a recording’s natural ambient info, isn’t it? And it doesn’t help any when your buds concur with your faux pas, does it? Is that the kind of “praise” from youtube viewers that you’re putting so much stock in?

Do you suppose the consensus can discern the difference between unnatural room reverb and a recording’s natural ambient info? Might the consensus grimace when hearing that empty-coffee-can sonic signature? Might the consensus understand the importance of a presentation’s natural ambient info? Does any of this matter to anybody besides me?

You suggested I post another Vivaldi video so maybe this middle-of-the-road performance is a bit better comparison to your video?

One note of interest. So many like you are so convinced that live unamplified music in an acoustic space is the only viable benchmark for all things high-end audio. Yet, it seems just as many forget entirely about the acoustic space part (think ambient info) and I’m unsure why as IMO this capturing of the music IN ITS acoustic space is what makes all the difference in world. So sad.

BTW, these in-room videos can be so educational. It’s a shame more don’t take advantage of them.

This is a better original digital track than the previous one you posted. Less wiry, although still a tad wiry compared to the Tidal version. Is it a CD rip?

 

[stehno]

This is a better original digital track than the previous one you posted. Less wiry, although still a tad wiry compared to the Tidal version. Is it a CD rip?

Excellent. Now to more fully demonstrate how well-rounded and unbiased your perceptions and listening skills are, why don’t you spend a sentence or two sharing your thoughts on morricab’s video?

 

[wil]

Official YouTube versions are not good references as this example makes clear. If you click 'more' in the description the official YouTube version is there for you to try. Guess what, it sounds awful compared to Bonzo's video. It likely comes from this
equally awful 24/192 version listed on Tidal/Qobuz:
View attachment 125263

I prefer Bonzo's recording of Vienna's room in post #111 for it's clarity. But it also sounds a bit thin. The YouTube version is relatively muddled, but it also contains more low end Omphf. So, they each have their compromises. Overall, I think Vienna's system sounds more musically engaging on this recording.

I don't see this particular version on Qobuz. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another on Qobuz that is better.

 

[Rexp]

I prefer Bonzo's recording of Vienna's room in post #111 for it's clarity. But it also sounds a bit thin. The YouTube version is relatively muddled, but it also contains more low end Omphf. So, they each have their compromises. Overall, I think Vienna's system sounds more musically engaging on this recording.

I don't see this particular version on Qobuz. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another on Qobuz that is better.

Here you go

Listen to the release Lalo: Symphonie espagnole in D Minor, Op. 21 by Henryk Szeryng on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/album/0886446036243

 

[Rexp]

I prefer Bonzo's recording of Vienna's room in post #111 for it's clarity. But it also sounds a bit thin. The YouTube version is relatively muddled, but it also contains more low end Omphf. So, they each have their compromises. Overall, I think Vienna's system sounds more musically engaging on this recording.

I don't see this particular version on Qobuz. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another on Qobuz that is better.

Btw when I listen to YouTube on a Mac, everything is boosted to sound 'better'

 

[morricab]

It's not a solo but it meets the definition of a small ensemble.

The Devil Went Down to Georgia (youtube.com)

Here you can clearly hear the "coffee can hollowness" your system imparts on Charlie Daniel's voice compared to a digital rip of the same track. Your claim that 90-95% of the reverb we hear in your system is from the recording is exposed here as simply being off the mark.

The Charlie Daniels Band - The Devil Went Down to Georgia (Audio) (youtube.com)

Off the original album in case there was some remastering on the compilation...sounds pretty much the same though.

 

[wil]

Btw when I listen to YouTube on a Mac, everything is boosted to sound 'better'

Is there documentation somewhere about this Mac boosting?

 

[Rexp]

Is there documentation somewhere about this Mac boosting?

I don't know.

 

[wil]

Here you go

Listen to the release Lalo: Symphonie espagnole in D Minor, Op. 21 by Henryk Szeryng on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/album/0886446036243

That's a general link to Qobuz, not to a specific album. On my search of Qobuz, there is only one Szeryng performance of the Espagnole. It's not the recording Bonzo used in Vienna's room.

 

[stehno]

The Devil Went Down to Georgia (youtube.com)

Here you can clearly hear the "coffee can hollowness" your system imparts on Charlie Daniel's voice compared to a digital rip of the same track. Your claim that 90-95% of the reverb we hear in your system is from the recording is exposed here as simply being off the mark.

The Charlie Daniels Band - The Devil Went Down to Georgia (Audio) (youtube.com)

Off the original album in case there was some remastering on the compilation...sounds pretty much the same though.

lol. Well, you got me there. Or did you?

Yes, my video’s sound here is not very musical in comparison to seemingly the identical “official” youtube flavor. Do you think this lack of musicality in my video is a direct reflection of my system’s limitations or shortcomings? Sure, to some degree. IMO, in most every case that I’m aware of my in-room videos are easily within the ballpark of the musicality of an “official” version of the same pressing? Obviously not so with this one.

So why such a difference between the two seemingly identical recordings? My only guess is, I don’t have a Charlie Daniels Band CD, but somewhere I’ve got that song on some 70’s greatest hits cd. One thing I’ve noticed about greatest hits CDs/albums is that songs are often times remastered for that greatest hits album compilation. Sometimes the remastering improves musicality and sometimes not. In this case, it definitely is not.

What’s your guess?

And no, my video does not have that empty-coffee-can sound at least as I recognize it. Just because a recording is a bit shrill, etc and just because it still possesses an abundance of ambient info ought not imply an empty-coffee-can signature sound as you seem to be alluding. First you erroneously confused room reverb with the live performance’s ambient info and now you seem to be doing likewise with this empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature of which until now you’ve had no awareness of its existence?

And since you’ve had no awareness of this nasty signature until I recently started pointing it out, I would think you are hardly qualified to make such a claim with any accuracy. To the best of my knowledge it should be impossible for any of my videos to include this sonic signature. Impossible as in, it cannot be done.

To clarify a bit that empty-coffee-can signature sound which I’ve not attempted goes something like this.

That empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature….

• Will present a certain rich or faint hollowness as though the entire performance or at least parts thereof sound as though they are genuinely originating from within a large empty can.
• Is never to be confused with a recording/performance’s naturally associated ambient info of the sound’s interaction with the soundstage and/or recording hall. Otherwise, we’d hear this sonic signature at perhaps every live performance. And we never will.
• When present, it seems to instantly define the listening room. IOW, one can seemingly more easily discern the performance is coming from a confined space listening room rather than a larger studio or recording hall.

There’s probably some other traits but these are the ones that stand out to me.

Though the sonic signature is never limited to just one range of frequencies, depending on the playback config it can be more easily detected in one range of frequencies over another.

For example. If I were to compare the bass section of bonzo’s last video to your video I posted, bonzo’s empty-coffee-can sonic signature is definitely predominant in the bass range and really tapers off / becomes faint in the higher frequencies. Your sound on the other hand is a bit more of a tin cup type of sound (rather than a larger can) where that sonic signature seems a bit more predominant in the higher frequencies and not so noticeable in the bass frequencies.

Regardless, when this sonic signature becomes apparently, it seems to instantly define at least some part and often times all parts of the listening room to make us think we’re listening to at least parts of the performance as though those performers were present somewhere in the listening room. Very unrealistic.

For example. When I listen to your latest video, I instantly envision a parent standing in the opposite end of a smaller living room recording their kids practicing at the other end of the living room. Very unrealistic to me. IOW, I suspect your playback config is severely crippled at capturing the space and air (think ambient info) of the live performance via the recording. Given that you seem to lack any serious due diligence in your efforts (per my previous post), I’ve little doubt. To be frank, and though I’ve not listened to all of your videos by any means, your videos are routinely among the least musical I’ve encountered.

If I’m wrong about your playback config being severely crippled such that much of the recording’s ambient info remains inaudible, then please share how or what you’ve done to your playback config such that this volumes of a recording’s ambient info is front and center and overwhelmingly obvious from the first note on. Simply because and to the best of my knowledge this volumes of ambient info remaining audible can never be achieved by accident.

No matter what else you may hear and dislike, you ought not hear that empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature.

BTW, it’s kinda’ funny/sad. First you claimed all of my videos included waaaay too much room reverb, then a few months later Al M claimed likewise. Somewhere prior in that same thread and after I’d mentioned something to Al about the empty-coffee-can sonic signature, he replied that ALL of my videos included that empty-coffee-can sonic signature. Again, he too had no prior awareness of that sonic signature and suddenly he too became an expert by instantly claiming all my videos have that sound? Talk about quick learners?

 

[morricab]

lol. Well, you got me there. Or did you?

Yes, my video’s sound here is not very musical in comparison to seemingly the identical “official” youtube flavor. Do you think this lack of musicality in my video is a direct reflection of my system’s limitations or shortcomings? Sure, to some degree. IMO, in most every case that I’m aware of my in-room videos are easily within the ballpark of the musicality of an “official” version of the same pressing? Obviously not so with this one.

So why such a difference between the two seemingly identical recordings? My only guess is, I don’t have a Charlie Daniels Band CD, but somewhere I’ve got that song on some 70’s greatest hits cd. One thing I’ve noticed about greatest hits CDs/albums is that songs are often times remastered for that greatest hits album compilation. Sometimes the remastering improves musicality and sometimes not. In this case, it definitely is not.

What’s your guess?

And no, my video does not have that empty-coffee-can sound at least as I recognize it. Just because a recording is a bit shrill, etc and just because it still possesses an abundance of ambient info ought not imply an empty-coffee-can signature sound as you seem to be alluding. First you erroneously confused room reverb with the live performance’s ambient info and now you seem to be doing likewise with this empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature of which until now you’ve had no awareness of its existence?

And since you’ve had no awareness of this nasty signature until I recently started pointing it out, I would think you are hardly qualified to make such a claim with any accuracy. To the best of my knowledge it should be impossible for any of my videos to include this sonic signature. Impossible as in, it cannot be done.

To clarify a bit that empty-coffee-can signature sound which I’ve not attempted goes something like this.

That empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature….

• Will present a certain rich or faint hollowness as though the entire performance or at least parts thereof sound as though they are genuinely originating from within a large empty can.
• Is never to be confused with a recording/performance’s naturally associated ambient info of the sound’s interaction with the soundstage and/or recording hall. Otherwise, we’d hear this sonic signature at perhaps every live performance. And we never will.
• When present, it seems to instantly define the listening room. IOW, one can seemingly more easily discern the performance is coming from a confined space listening room rather than a larger studio or recording hall.

There’s probably some other traits but these are the ones that stand out to me.

Though the sonic signature is never limited to just one range of frequencies, depending on the playback config it can be more easily detected in one range of frequencies over another.

For example. If I were to compare the bass section of bonzo’s last video to your video I posted, bonzo’s empty-coffee-can sonic signature is definitely predominant in the bass range and really tapers off / becomes faint in the higher frequencies. Your sound on the other hand is a bit more of a tin cup type of sound (rather than a larger can) where that sonic signature seems a bit more predominant in the higher frequencies and not so noticeable in the bass frequencies.

Regardless, when this sonic signature becomes apparently, it seems to instantly define at least some part and often times all parts of the listening room to make us think we’re listening to at least parts of the performance as though those performers were present somewhere in the listening room. Very unrealistic.

For example. When I listen to your latest video, I instantly envision a parent standing in the opposite end of a smaller living room recording their kids practicing at the other end of the living room. Very unrealistic to me. IOW, I suspect your playback config is severely crippled at capturing the space and air (think ambient info) of the live performance via the recording. Given that you seem to lack any serious due diligence in your efforts (per my previous post), I’ve little doubt. To be frank, and though I’ve not listened to all of your videos by any means, your videos are routinely among the least musical I’ve encountered.

If I’m wrong about your playback config being severely crippled such that much of the recording’s ambient info remains inaudible, then please share how or what you’ve done to your playback config such that this volumes of a recording’s ambient info is front and center and overwhelmingly obvious from the first note on. Simply because and to the best of my knowledge this volumes of ambient info remaining audible can never be achieved by accident.

No matter what else you may hear and dislike, you ought not hear that empty-coffee-can-like sonic signature.

BTW, it’s kinda’ funny/sad. First you claimed all of my videos included waaaay too much room reverb, then a few months later Al M claimed likewise. Somewhere prior in that same thread and after I’d mentioned something to Al about the empty-coffee-can sonic signature, he replied that ALL of my videos included that empty-coffee-can sonic signature. Again, he too had no prior awareness of that sonic signature and suddenly he too became an expert by instantly claiming all my videos have that sound? Talk about quick learners?

It does because it is not just an excess of reverb compared to the base recordings but because it has a metallic flavor to it (could be related to your ribbon mid drivers...my Infinity IRS Betas had this kind of flavor as well). I had a friend with the RM30s from VMPS (I think you have RM40s, right? It's a bit hard to be sure when your videos are so dark) and they had that flavor as well...IMO BG drivers have something similar as well (I know I own these drivers). Only loosely hung ribbons seem to avoid this (like Apogee).

I posted both versions for the obvious reason that the compilation could have been remastered (I said as much...not sure why you felt the need to restate this). The result compared to yours is clear. Now, I know very well all rooms will create their own sound...it is virtually unavoidable. So, I would never expect perfection; however, you were adamant that the room has almost no effect on your sound and we are really hearing 90-95% (your estimate, not mine) of the recording ambiance. This comparison makes it rather obvious that you have a significant room (and possibly speaker) component to the spatial representation of your system.

Regardless, it proves the point that your room has quite a lot of reverb and of a metallic flavor and this comparison rather exposes what your system is adding to everything...as I have pointed out before.

Whatever, you will go down swinging that I am wrong and blah blah blah. You can take the criticism and improve or ignore...if you are happy what do you care what I think?

 

[wil]

Official YouTube versions are not good references as this example makes clear. If you click 'more' in the description the official YouTube version is there for you to try. Guess what, it sounds awful compared to Bonzo's video. It likely comes from this
equally awful 24/192 version listed on Tidal/Qobuz:
View attachment 125263

Here's one that I don't think is "awful" -- streamed from Qobuz. I fact there were several excellent recordings of this piece on Qobuz

Isaac Stern, Philadelphia Orchestra, Label: Praga Digitals

I like the tone on Sterns violin...

(note: two of the eight 11” woofers on the MM7 towers are not functioning at present. Surprisingly, it’s not too detrimental).

 

[Rexp]

Here's one that I don't think is "awful" -- streamed from Qobuz. I fact there were several excellent recordings of this piece on Qobuz

Isaac Stern, Philadelphia Orchestra, Label: Praga Digitals

I like the tone on Sterns violin...

While there are good recordings of this piece, there are no good recordings of the performance first posted.
The one you posted is OK, your system sounds excellent but I prefer the 2021 remaster:

Listen to the release Lalo: Symphonie espagnole - Bruch: Violin Concerto No. 1 (Remastered) by Isaac Stern on Qobuz https://open.qobuz.com/album/exfrov0e71f5a

 

[andromedaaudio]

Now with soft dome tw and CAT JL 5 / meitner DAC YT streaming( new small speaker model ).
After 24 hours on the juice / burn in.

Id love to have the WADAX dgital.

 

[wil]

Now with soft dome tw and CAT JL 5 / meitner DAC YT streaming( new small speaker model ).
After 24 hours on the juice / burn in.

Id love to have the WADAX dgital.

Great performance from Hahn. Is this the DG recording?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Great performance from Hahn. Is this the DG recording?

Deutsche grammaphone .

I ll see what i have on tape recordings regarding solo violin
I do have nice cello recordings on tape.

YT is nice for selecting recordings , original file might be better i dont know

 

[Rexp]

Its better on vinyl

 

[Hear Here]

Has this album been mentioned yet?

The first track of the Carnival of Venice never fails to astonish me with the number of very different sounds that can be made from a small wooden box with just 4 strings and a bundle of horse hairs!

 

[Rexp]

I'd actually be quite happy if Ms Hahn released a digital version recorded like this in her house:

 

[andromedaaudio]

Great performance from Hahn. Is this the DG recording?

Sound after 1 day speaker assembly
Tomorrow i go to india for 2 weeks for work when i come back i ll buy the recording on CD and make another recording with fully played in speakers .
See what the differences are on YT.

If my stomach survives the food on site that is