Tripoint Audio - new top model grounding device

[rockitman]

spirit, the second link http://www.rane.com/note110.html talks about ground issues that come from the components themselves whether it be incorrect/inconsistent balanced wiring connections ect. In summary:

•Cause and prevention of ground loops
•Interfacing balanced and unbalanced
•Proper pin connections and wiring
•Chassis ground vs. signal ground
•Ground lift switches

I think the info is useful and relevant to this discussion.

 

[RogerD]

Christian, I'm not going to get into the wherewithall of electrical engineering, and I stand to be corrected, but the "grounding" discussed here in audiophile terms is a different matter from "grounding" as an electrical installer would understand it. A ground/earth is required on an install for safety/operational grounds. When the proponents like me talk about audiophile grounding, it's as a more general, drainage, sump category for all kinds of nasties that appear in the system once the install is complete/audio system up an running. Now we're talking about eddys and contaminations that creep into the system from the mains, and nasties created by the components themselves. I envisage these nasties, via a common impedance generated by Entreq, Tripoint etc being channeled out of the system, and not being allowed to recirculate to create relative chaos (in our parlance, music-destroying noise).
So, if I'm not incorrect, I believe it's a sideline to look at the grounding/earthing as the electrical installer would think of it, this is more an audiophile matter where we're trying to eliminate factors that obscure our enjoyment of music.

Spirit as speedskater used the correct term or name of the "method" which is the "signal ground" This thread is about signal ground devices.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Roger and Christian, I stand duly corrected. Will chime in w/my comments on SQ/system integration only.

 

[Barry2013]

Just that we do not mix up myth with facts I hereby enclose a comment made by Miguel from Tripoint Audio on Audiogon. You can find this comment on Audiogon under community, virtual systems, Tripoint.

As we all (should) know, it is not only about the (good) idea but also about the (good) implementation of this idea.

My fellow audiophiles, please do trust me on this one if I proclaim that the Tripoint devices are spectacular good (and please note: I use two top notch audio systems that I know from inside out and the effects by adding the Troy signature to both of them were profound. I could not believe what I heard!).

Such a pity that people on this forum that have never heard any of the Tripoint devices, are so critical only because of their prices. How can someone judge (the price of) a product if he has never heard it? This is really beyond me.

Anyway, here is the quote:

"There has been a lot of talk lately regarding grounding benefits, schemes, scientific theory, and some myth stories. I'm here to tell you not all grounding solutions yield the same results. I do have to clear some erroneous information that is being said about Tripoint. The first lie is that Tripoint is not compatible with isolation transformer. There is no compatibility issue at all of incorporating a Tripoint Troy Signature or Emperor Ground in conjunction with a transformer base AC conditioner. This includes large isolation transformers at the wall panel. My comments in the past regarding isolation transformers are based on personal preference and trial and error. The isolation transformer at the wall panel has to be tested further, distance from the transformer to the listening room I believe will be a determining factor on success rate. Anyone who wants to discuss this topic further with me is welcome to contact me. I can guarantee you that Tripoint products will work under any system and any configuration. Due to the revealing nature of our products its up to the discriminating listener to determine the best component, cable, room treatment and tweaks that work best. Of course I have my preferences through years of trial and error thanks to the help of Tripoint. I urge anyone who is a real music lover to try grounding. Tripoint is referred by most as a grounding box, when it reality it's much more complex than just a ground box. Tripoint technology deals with mechanical induce distortions, acts like big vacuum to drain EMI/RFI away from your components, deals with 60hz hum/resonance distortion. Tripoint is not a solution to eliminate earth ground rods which are there for your safety and are code. I do also incorporate a very sophisticated grounding scheme at my home with three ground bars in bendonite which are 30 feet down under going to a water table. This is no match for the noise rejection capabilities of Tripoint. Yes in my experience and that of Tripoint owners, Tripoint solution products is the only real way to achieve natural sounding music and not just sounds. I hope I have cleared up some questions regarding Tripoint products. If you have any questions you are welcome to contact me at anytime. Happy Listening everyone."

I have heard the Troy Signature and the Entreq Silver Tellus and Atlantis boxes. I am not clear if you have heard the Entreq products. Lloyd has heard both and preferred the Troy Signature on balance but said there was not much difference between the two but enough to dispose him to the Troy which he now uses with Entreq cables, I have not heard the Troy Emperor which at $70k is way beyond the resources of most people but I remain sceptical of its value for money and the extent of its sound quality benefits over the Entreq products.
I reiterate that I have no beef with those who choose to go for the Troy Emperor or Signature but I do rebut any suggestions as to the effectiveness of the Entreq products. The troy signature I heard did not to my ears have any obvious superiority over the Entreqs but I respect Lloyd's view that for him it had the edge. The Troy is not as user friendly requiring a mains lead and input and does not have the incremental upgradeability of the Entreqs.
The danger I see in the tenor of this thread is that the benefits of signal and component grounding may get lost on those yet to go down this road and thus deprive them of the benefits of this approach and particularly if they conclude that the more affordable Entreq route does not bring any real benefits when nothing could be further from the truth.
I am really not qualified to comment on the DIY solutions and it may well be that somebody chances upon one that has so far eluded everybody else who has researched this issue, but that strikes me as unlikely.
So lets all who have experienced the benefits of Troy or Entreq bang the drums for what they both do, and by all means express a preference for one or the other, but at the same time maintain some balance and respect and thereby help fellow audiophiles to gain a better understanding of how they both really improve a system's sound quality. They can then explore further and make their own hopefully better informed decisions

 

[spiritofmusic]

+1. Great note of moderation, Barry. I know that Christian and Mike L esp., have invested deeply in their systems and are effusive in their praise when they hit on a seeming SOTA solution to an issue eg their recent forays into active isolation. I'm confident they'll have similar reactions of pure joy if they investigate grounding, whether Entreq, diy or Tripoint.

 

[rockitman]

I have heard the Troy Signature and the Entreq Silver Tellus and Atlantis boxes. I am not clear if you have heard the Entreq products. Lloyd has heard both and preferred the Troy Signature on balance but said there was not much difference between the two but enough to dispose him to the Troy which he now uses with Entreq cables, I have not heard the Troy Emperor which at $70k is way beyond the resources of most people but I remain sceptical of its value for money and the extent of its sound quality benefits over the Entreq products.
I reiterate that I have no beef with those who choose to go for the Troy Emperor or Signature but I do rebut any suggestions as to the effectiveness of the Entreq products. The troy signature I heard did not to my ears have any obvious superiority over the Entreqs but I respect Lloyd's view that for him it had the edge. The Troy is not as user friendly requiring a mains lead and input and does not have the incremental upgradeability of the Entreqs.
The danger I see in the tenor of this thread is that the benefits of signal and component grounding may get lost on those yet to go down this road and thus deprive them of the benefits of this approach and particularly if they conclude that the more affordable Entreq route does not bring any real benefits when nothing could be further from the truth.
I am really not qualified to comment on the DIY solutions and it may well be that somebody chances upon one that has so far eluded everybody else who has researched this issue, but that strikes me as unlikely.
So lets all who have experienced the benefits of Troy or Entreq bang the drums for what they both do, and by all means express a preference for one or the other, but at the same time maintain some balance and respect and thereby help fellow audiophiles to gain a better understanding of how they both really improve a system's sound quality. They can then explore further and make their own hopefully better informed decisions

Entreq needs to make themselves available in the USA for demo, ect. That is a good marketing strategy in the end, if the product delivers as expected.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Christian, I've contacted my UK rep, and it appears they're having some issues appointing a new US rep after moving from the last one. They're aware of the potential market. I can't do more myself, and believe it'll be a big missed opportunity for Entreq if you guys bypass them.

 

[Barry2013]

Entreq needs to make themselves available in the USA for demo, ect. That is a good marketing strategy in the end, if the product delivers as expected.

So the answer to my question is no I have not heard the Entreq boxes

 

[Audiocrack]

" I reiterate that I have no beef with those who choose to go for the Troy Emperor or Signature but I do rebut any suggestions as to the effectiveness of the Entreq products."

Just to be clear on this Barry2013: I have argued more than once on the WBF that our members should be much more tolerant to eachother and accept that audiophiles have different tastes, preferences and hear differently. That is part of the fun of our hobby I would say. So even if I have a different view, I have never critized any member for liking this or that (product). Furthermore, I have never been critical towards any of the Entreq products. Your quote, being a reaction to one of my replies, seems to imply otherwise. So maybe you could explain yourself.

 

[Barry2013]

" I reiterate that I have no beef with those who choose to go for the Troy Emperor or Signature but I do rebut any suggestions as to the effectiveness of the Entreq products."

Just to be clear on this Barry2013: I have argued more than once on the WBF that our members should be much more tolerant to eachother and accept that audiophiles have different tastes, preferences and hear differently. That is part of the fun of our hobby I would say. So even if I have a different view, I have never critized any member for liking this or that (product). Furthermore, I have never been critical towards any of the Entreq products. Your quote, being a reaction to one of my replies, seems to imply otherwise. So maybe you could explain yourself.

No such implication intended.
Simply drawing attention to the alternative in the shape of Entreq and the value of hearing both in assessing their respective merits.

 

[RogerD]

I have had quite a few inquiries about terminating flat braid cable. In my area there are companies that build wiring harnesses and they have all the equipment necessary to build custom cables. Hope this helps.

 

[audioblazer]

Audioexotics HK with Tripoint Emperor.
When my friend Tan , thf99 told me he managed to contact Chris of audioexotics for a demo at his showroom, I decided to join the bandwagon for the privilege of such audition to discover for my self what is the hype all about at audioexotics . It is mere hype or the real deal ?
The showroom was located at an commercial building fronting the harbour at the end of the Sheung Wan MTR. Took awhile for us to locate the place , thanks to a gentleman .
The showroom is pretty impressive with proper room treatment & power management with a pretty good size room bearing in mind the ultra pricey rental in Hk.
We proceeded to listen to LP after LP , some familiar some not some . We were amazed with the ultra realism of the system particularly when Chris played Jacky Cheung , Snow , Wolf & Lake LP especially the duet track . It's as though they were singing in the room for us. Prior to that , Chris showcase a Mozart piano piece by Maria Joao Pires label Denon. PCM . I have never heard a piano piece sounded so real . He told us he is a piano tuner , as in technically competent piano tuner or he tuned the system according to this piano piece , I m not sure . Whatever is it , this piano LP sounded mesmerising . Towards the end of the 2 hours audition, chris told us that he will demo the effective of Tripoint Emperor grounding , the trademark sound of audioexotics ( in his own words ) & we will not want to listen to the syst if he remove the grounding . He proceeded to removed the ground cable from the durand telos tonearm. The system simply collapsed & it was not as engaging anymore . I m truly converted to the wonder of Tripoint ground box . Only barrier is the cost of entry ie usd14k for Tripoint signature SE & usd70k for Emperor ( crazy price ) . However if u have audition it , I doubt u want to listen to your system without the Tripoint. Skeptics will continue to be skeptical but to me , hearing is believing

 

[Audiocrack]

Audioblazer, a person who apparently has experience with/listened to both Entreq and Tripoint products, put the following quotes on Audiogon:

"I m currently using Entreq Silver Tellus with Apollo silver ground cables . I like the subtle improvement . I heard a lot about Tripoint from audioexotics forum & I couldn't believe why a small grounding box is so expensive ( usd 14k for Tripoint signature se ) & I have been following Tripoint development since the inception of Tripoint website. Last week , my friend arrange a demo at audioexotics HK & we loved what we heard . Ultra realism at its best . Chris of audioexotics told us u wouldn't want to hear the syst anymore once I unplugged the grounding & he proceeded to remove the ground cable ( connected to Emperor) from the tonearm & the syst simply collapsed . Amazing & unbelievable but I m converted . Chris is not any tom , dick & Harry distrubutor . As a senior economist who authored economic book , executor director of group research , DBS bank , he makes millions . I don't think a sales with a few k profit will excite him . He is into extreme audio nirvana & that excites him."

and

"It's difficult to believe how a mere grounding box can contribute so much. Ultimately hearing is believing . I still scratch my head & wonder how to explain what I have heard & decided not to waste my time & money adding an entreq Atlantis to the system."

 

[LL21]

I have auditioned an all Tidal system in that room in Hong Kong, and first 'heard' the Tripoint Troy (the original one) in that room as well...including removing just one of probably a dozen grounding points. It was crazy that a small little 'haze' appeared...in fact I think my comments on that audition are buried somewhere here in WBF from 2010 or so.

...Audioblazer, I believe you. Let us know when you get your Emperor!!!

 

[audioblazer]

Lloyd , too pricey to consider Emperor. I think for the time being got to make do with Signature SE

 

[Thf99]

I initiated the visit to AE and I asked audioblazer to come along. I concur with his comments on the Emperor. There are other grounding devices out there but Tripoint seems to have done it better than most if not all. Audiocrack has put part of my comments here earlier. If you have a mega system, I'd say the Emperor will take it to a level you can never imagine. I'd listened to some of the world's most expensive systems but none can touch the realism of the AE system. We were just spellbound by it for almost 2 hours!

 

[TBG]

Neil Muncy did write on SCIN shield induced cable noise and all I'm saying is that the high end is way behind on the learning curve on EMI noise reduction. I can spend 50 bucks and rid my system of noise. Then you have people that know how simple it is and rape poor ignorant people with 10K,20K and up gimmicks that are designed to hide the simplicity of noise reduction. I wonder why,it's not because people have a vested interest in the status quo? Good night Sir.

http://www.rane.com/pdf/ranenotes/SCIN_Shield_Current_Induced_Noise.pdf

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

I have heard several "raned" rooms and would not have tolerated them.

I don't know what is behind your rage about "raping the poor and ignorant people" but there is some correlation between expense and sound quality and it certainly is not negative. No one has appointed you to the Scam police.

 

[LL21]

I initiated the visit to AE and I asked audioblazer to come along. I concur with his comments on the Emperor. There are other grounding devices out there but Tripoint seems to have done it better than most if not all. Audiocrack has put part of my comments here earlier. If you have a mega system, I'd say the Emperor will take it to a level you can never imagine. I'd listened to some of the world's most expensive systems but none can touch the realism of the AE system. We were just spellbound by it for almost 2 hours!

Hey Thf99,

What was the AE system you heard? Just curious as it has been a few years since we last visited. It was Stahl-Tek, Tripoint, Argento and Tidal Electronics and Tidal 4-tower reference speakers last time.

 

[TBG]

Lloyd , too pricey to consider Emperor. I think for the time being got to make do with Signature SE

audioblazer, I am exactly in your situation. I really fear hearing the Emperor. I already own the Troy Signature and really cannot go further especially as the Thor SE grounding cables are expensive and add so much. I have two now plus a prototype and will soon have four. Whatever you do don't leave out getting several of the Thor SEs. If the system you heard didn't have them on the Emperor, you haven't heard anything yet.

 

[MtnHam]

Who are the dealers for these systems in the SF Bay Area?