Thoughts on hearing a Wilson XVX Chronosonic System at Evolution Hifi

[adrianywu]

I have heard large Wilsons in people's homes and left unimpressed. I think it says more about the owners than the speakers. The XVX Chronosonic system set up at the Hong Kong AV show this year was truly impressive, and this is coming from a horn guy. It was well balanced, musical, with life-like scale and dynamics. Unfortunately, most Wilson owners I know care more about the equipment (more specifically the price) than the sound.

 

[LL21]

I have heard large Wilsons in people's homes and left unimpressed. I think it says more about the owners than the speakers. The XVX Chronosonic system set up at the Hong Kong AV show this year was truly impressive, and this is coming from a horn guy. It was well balanced, musical, with life-like scale and dynamics. Unfortunately, most Wilson owners I know care more about the equipment (more specifically the price) than the sound.

Interesting...I have heard the AG Trios (once) and the XVX (once but at least with electronics I know). I think the XVX was set up in a pretty big room in Hong Kong? Not sure...what did you think of the XVX's ability to scale in comparison with big horns?

 

[adrianywu]

Interesting...I have heard the AG Trios (once) and the XVX (once but at least with electronics I know). I think the XVX was set up in a pretty big room in Hong Kong? Not sure...what did you think of the XVX's ability to scale in comparison with big horns?

Yes, the XVX was set up in one of the big rooms. The system was skilfully set up, and they were playing music that showcased the best aspects of the system. I would love to have a chance to play with them, and test them with my most dynamic master tapes. The Wilsons are pretty sensitive for this type of speaker, but of course not remotely comparable to the fully horn loaded Avantgardes in this department. However, many times I have been disappointed with the sound from AG systems, but I have also been mightily impressed. I think these speakers, esp. the Trios, are even harder to get right. I would guess that only a handful of top amplifiers will be able to drive the Wilsons up to a level comparable to the AG Trios in terms of dynamics (micro and macro). Most high power SS amps have trouble doing refinement and micro-dynamics. And once you have heard horn loaded bass, there is no longer any alternative.

 

[Lee]

What impressed me most was how natural and immersive the listening experience was. It made you want to sit and listen for hours.

 

[microstrip]

I have heard large Wilsons in people's homes and left unimpressed. I think it says more about the owners than the speakers.

Or simply their sound preferences are very different from yours ... We find it every time in this forum!

Surely we have cases where logistics and looks conflict with proper placement and set up, but IMO this happens with any brand.

The XVX Chronosonic system set up at the Hong Kong AV show this year was truly impressive, and this is coming from a horn guy. It was well balanced, musical, with life-like scale and dynamics. Unfortunately, most Wilson owners I know care more about the equipment (more specifically the price) than the sound.

It seems you are unlucky in the choice of Wilson owners or your local distributor is doing a poor job. Can I ask where you are located?

 

[LL21]

Yes, the XVX was set up in one of the big rooms. The system was skilfully set up, and they were playing music that showcased the best aspects of the system. I would love to have a chance to play with them, and test them with my most dynamic master tapes. The Wilsons are pretty sensitive for this type of speaker, but of course not remotely comparable to the fully horn loaded Avantgardes in this department. However, many times I have been disappointed with the sound from AG systems, but I have also been mightily impressed. I think these speakers, esp. the Trios, are even harder to get right. I would guess that only a handful of top amplifiers will be able to drive the Wilsons up to a level comparable to the AG Trios in terms of dynamics (micro and macro). Most high power SS amps have trouble doing refinement and micro-dynamics. And once you have heard horn loaded bass, there is no longer any alternative.

Thank you! Very interesting and yes, your comment on AG was exactly what I discussed within minutes of the first song...extremely exacting. The difference between a great magnifying glass and a laboratory microscope...the AG being the latter. I suspect that in terms of scale, it also depends at this level on the room. For a room 40' x 20' x 12', the AG will start to pull away from the XVX...but as the room gets more intimate, then the scale will still be different, but the XVX might be able to catch the AG Trios + horns...particularly when one considers the impact on smaller spaces that the room starts to have.

In many respects, this is why I have been so intrigued to learn about the Acapella Hyperion which is both horn (1m wide), ion tweeter...and 4 x 15" cones per speaker for bass. In a remarkably compact 17" x 33" footprint though very tall (8').

 

[Audiohertz2]

Wow , eight 15” woofers in total , thats crazy

 

[ScottK]

Latest issue of the Absolute Sound arrived today. Harley does a review of the Alexia V in his listening room and compares them to his reference XVX's. In both cases he raves about the bass quantity and quality. Calls the XVX a "landmark achievement in speaker design". Calls the Alexia V a triumph. All this with paper and silk.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wow , eight 15” woofers in total , thats crazy

That's wonderful!

That's enough woofage even to make our Big Dog RJ bark up a storm!

 

[adrianywu]

Or simply their sound preferences are very different from yours ... We find it every time in this forum!

Surely we have cases where logistics and looks conflict with proper placement and set up, but IMO this happens with any brand.



It seems you are unlucky in the choice of Wilson owners or your local distributor is doing a poor job. Can I ask where you are located?

Hong Kong. An interesting story. I was invited to hear the new Wilson Alexx V in the home of a friend of a friend earlier this year. The owner lives alone in an old apartment, and he has dedicated his living/dining room to his audio hobby. It immediately struck me when I entered because the room was very small and almost cube like in dimensions. The large speakers were tucked into the corners with super expensive high powered SS amps in the middle. The owner spent most of the time telling everyone how much money he spent on his system, and how he got his equipment upgraded with special caps, wiring etc. When he started playing music (if you can call it that), it was very apparent that there is a huge peak somewhere in the bass region, probably around 80Hz. Talking about boomy one note bass. In fact, the whole room was shaking due to the resonance. He kept playing tracks that had a lot of energy in this spectrum, and telling everyone how amazing the bass of his system was. He then proceeded to play tracks of a shrieking woman (apparently a sound track from a Japanese horror movie) and other sound effects. It got a bit too much for me, and I wanted to leave.
He then said "So and so (a veteran audio dealer in Hong Kong) came by last week to listen, and he said it is the most rubbish sound he has ever heard. What does the guy know about audio ? He is just envious because I did not buy from him." I just happen to know this dealer well, and his business has thrived after more than 25 years because he is brutally honest and always generous with his time and considerable expertise towards fellow audiophiles, customer or not. At that point, I asked to be excused.
And you are correct. This is not the sound I prefer.

 

[bonzo75]

which is both horn...and 4 x 15" cones per speaker for bass. In a remarkably compact 17" x 33" footprint though very tall (8').

On paper this is the worst configuration, to combine those two designs. Only way is to downplay the cone bass to let it integrate with the horn, kind of like Martin Logan hybrids, but the hybrids used are 5k and are good at downplaying the bass (by downplaying I mean not let it stick out, and allow the listener to accept the whole thing as a compromise. No one buys a Logan hybrid for the bass)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Martin Logan hybrids, but the hybrids used are 5k and are good at downplaying the bass (by downplaying I mean not let it stick out, and allow the listener to accept the whole thing as a compromise. No one buys a Logan hybrid for the bass)

+1

 

[mtemur]

When he started playing music (if you can call it that), it was very apparent that there is a huge peak somewhere in the bass region, probably around 80Hz. Talking about boomy one note bass. In fact, the whole room was shaking due to the resonance.

IMHO/IME that's typical with Wilson speakers, problem with bass control. On the other hand I'm not fan of AG horns either. At first AG speakers catch you with vividness like all horns do but after a while you start to hear plastic horns and edgy sound. Those loosely fixed plastic horns vibrate like hell and make everything sound plastic. Another issue is active bass. It never integrates with horns. IMHO the latest AG trios are much better and fixed on many areas. Acapella is a little bit better in my opinion.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Hong Kong. An interesting story. I was invited to hear the new Wilson Alexx V in the home of a friend of a friend earlier this year. The owner lives alone in an old apartment, and he has dedicated his living/dining room to his audio hobby. It immediately struck me when I entered because the room was very small and almost cube like in dimensions. The large speakers were tucked into the corners with super expensive high powered SS amps in the middle. The owner spent most of the time telling everyone how much money he spent on his system, and how he got his equipment upgraded with special caps, wiring etc. When he started playing music (if you can call it that), it was very apparent that there is a huge peak somewhere in the bass region, probably around 80Hz. Talking about boomy one note bass. In fact, the whole room was shaking due to the resonance. He kept playing tracks that had a lot of energy in this spectrum, and telling everyone how amazing the bass of his system was. He then proceeded to play tracks of a shrieking woman (apparently a sound track from a Japanese horror movie) and other sound effects. It got a bit too much for me, and I wanted to leave.
He then said "So and so (a veteran audio dealer in Hong Kong) came by last week to listen, and he said it is the most rubbish sound he has ever heard. What does the guy know about audio ? He is just envious because I did not buy from him." I just happen to know this dealer well, and his business has thrived after more than 25 years because he is brutally honest and always generous with his time and considerable expertise towards fellow audiophiles, customer or not. At that point, I asked to be excused.
And you are correct. This is not the sound I prefer.

Prolly the typically poor WA setup most hear and then condemn the Brand ..!

Regards

 

[Lee]

Prolly the typically poor WA setup most hear and then condemn the Brand ..!

Regards

My guess is this was definitely a setup issue. The Alexx V is capable of quite extraordinary transparency and natural sound. The showings at Axpona have really shown that.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

It got a bit too much for me, and I wanted to leave.

...sounds like a psy-ops experience from a black-site to torture spies. I did not know they used Wilsons for that.

 

[ScottK]

Wilson detractors often use driver incoherence as an argument. Might want to add that to the tool kit?

 

[Al M.]

Hong Kong. An interesting story. I was invited to hear the new Wilson Alexx V in the home of a friend of a friend earlier this year. The owner lives alone in an old apartment, and he has dedicated his living/dining room to his audio hobby. It immediately struck me when I entered because the room was very small and almost cube like in dimensions. The large speakers were tucked into the corners with super expensive high powered SS amps in the middle. The owner spent most of the time telling everyone how much money he spent on his system, and how he got his equipment upgraded with special caps, wiring etc. When he started playing music (if you can call it that), it was very apparent that there is a huge peak somewhere in the bass region, probably around 80Hz. Talking about boomy one note bass. In fact, the whole room was shaking due to the resonance. He kept playing tracks that had a lot of energy in this spectrum, and telling everyone how amazing the bass of his system was. He then proceeded to play tracks of a shrieking woman (apparently a sound track from a Japanese horror movie) and other sound effects. It got a bit too much for me, and I wanted to leave.
He then said "So and so (a veteran audio dealer in Hong Kong) came by last week to listen, and he said it is the most rubbish sound he has ever heard. What does the guy know about audio ? He is just envious because I did not buy from him." I just happen to know this dealer well, and his business has thrived after more than 25 years because he is brutally honest and always generous with his time and considerable expertise towards fellow audiophiles, customer or not. At that point, I asked to be excused.
And you are correct. This is not the sound I prefer.

If there is a huge bass peak around 80 Hz and it's a small room with cube like dimensions, the main problem is the room. Instead of the Wilson speakers in the corners he should have ASC IsoThermal Tube Traps (or other very efficient bass traps) in the corners. Preferably two stacked on top of each other, covering floor to ceiling.

I'm not saying that putting large Wilson speakers into such a room is not a mistake as well (I wouldn't do it myself), but the main problem is the room node. Of course, it may be greatly exacerbated by the speaker choice.

 

[bonzo75]

Wilson detractors often use driver incoherence as an argument.

the joke is on you if you cannot hear it.

 

[LL21]

On paper this is the worst configuration, to combine those two designs. Only way is to downplay the cone bass to let it integrate with the horn, kind of like Martin Logan hybrids, but the hybrids used are 5k and are good at downplaying the bass (by downplaying I mean not let it stick out, and allow the listener to accept the whole thing as a compromise. No one buys a Logan hybrid for the bass)

Yes, definitely the 'stereotypical' panel/cone or horn/cone integration challenge right off the bat. Interestingly, their flagship Sphaeron is horns with a separate stack of cones, as is ML Statement and Genesis/IRS V, MBL 101Xtreme Ref and the Pendragons...I wonder whether Acapella managed to take separate stacks and actually make them work lined up as one. Clearly they think so. Will certainly be interesting to hear some day.

Meanwhile, I would be intrigued to hear the horn bass from AG G3 again someday as well.