The point of diminishing returns for speakers is...?

[Rexp]

We use the concept of diminishing returns in its most prosaic sense, rapidly decreasing benefit from rapidly increasing cost. However on a less easily quantified measure there is the drive to extend limits regardless of cost. Robert Browning‘s ”that a man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a heaven for?” can be viewed as analogous to the audiophile’s quest for “the absolute sound”. A thing may never be attained but it should be pursued. Imagine DaVinci in front of the newly completed La Gioconda thinking to himself “It’s very good, but it needs some little touch……”

Well if by Absolute Sound you mean the sound that was produced in the mastering studio. It is possible to have this at home, just replicate the room/system. Ofcourse you'd only get it with recordings made at your studio of choice so not really an option.

 

[Lee]

What can a $350K Chronosonic XVX give me that a $15K speaker will never be able to ?

Musical engagement.

 

[Another Johnson]

What can a $350K Chronosonic XVX give me that a $15K speaker will never be able to ?

A hernia …

Seriously though, you may not value the sonic differences. The whole idea of $350k speakers may just be too nutty. So the $15k speaker, which may be truly very believable, seems to be the obviously better choice.

is the $5k bottle of wine really better than the $500 bottle? Maybe so … maybe no.

Is the $50 cigar really better than the $5 cigar?

The answers depend on your palate, and what you’re used to enjoying.

I love the fact that we have so many choices, and for every budget.

Several years ago a Stereophile reviewer said that the Revel 228Bes were as much speaker as anyone would need and that there was no incentive to spend more than its $11k msrp at the time. They parked it in their Class A category, alongside of several models costing 10 times as much. I can state unequivocally from my own experience that the 228Be was a great speaker at its typical 4 figure discounted selling point, but to my ears even the lowly Sabrina beat it on complex orchestral works.

 

[Lee]

A hernia …

Seriously though, you may not value the sonic differences. The whole idea of $350k speakers may just be too nutty. So the $15k speaker, which may be truly very believable, seems to be the obviously better choice.

is the $5k bottle of wine really better than the $500 bottle? Maybe so … maybe no.

Is the $50 cigar really better than the $5 cigar?

The answers depend on your palate, and what you’re used to enjoying.

I love the fact that we have so many choices, and for every budget.

Several years ago a Stereophile reviewer said that the Revel 228Bes were as much speaker as anyone would need and that there was no incentive to spend more than its $11k msrp at the time. They parked it in their Class A category, alongside of several models costing 10 times as much. I can state unequivocally from my own experience that the 228Be was a great speaker at its typical 4 figure discounted selling point, but to my ears even the lowly Sabrina beat it on complex orchestral works.

Just a note to folks here that in my video on the Law I mention that I recognize there are examples of great value along the way.

 

[Bruce B]

What can a $350K Chronosonic XVX give me that a $15K speaker will never be able to ?

A lighter wallet and bragging rights......

I had a recording/mastering studio..... I had the source....

 

[XV-1]

I own Maggies and have owned many Wilson speakers.... You want a dollar sign? Here it is:

$12-15k

Finally someone with some common sense.

 

[Chops]

Musical engagement.

LOL! Not necessarily.

I've heard much costlier systems not sound anywhere near as "musically engaging" as less costly systems, including loudspeakers alone.

 

[Al M.]

LOL! Not necessarily.

I've heard much costlier systems not sound anywhere near as "musically engaging" as less costly systems, including loudspeakers alone.

Very true.

On the other hand, some expensive speakers can present music with a believability, or additional elements of believability, that less expensive speakers cannot match. This can lead to more engagement.

 

[dcathro]

Very true.

On the other hand, some expensive speakers can present music with a believability, or additional elements of believability, that less expensive speakers cannot match. This can lead to more engagement.

There is no denying that if you throw money at something you SHOULD be able to make it better.

 

[Chops]

Very true.

On the other hand, some expensive speakers can present music with a believability, or additional elements of believability, that less expensive speakers cannot match. This can lead to more engagement.

There is no denying that if you throw money at something you SHOULD be able to make it better.

It works both ways, and all boils down to the room and system synergy. Just because something costs more doesn't always mean it's better.

 

[Al M.]

It works both days, and all boils down to the room and system synergy. Just because something costs more doesn't always mean it's better.

Agreed. A relatively cheaper system in a great and/or acoustically well sorted-out room with carefully selected components for best synergy will *always* beat, no, demolish, a carelessly thrown together very expensive system in a lousy room.

 

[Lee]

LOL! Not necessarily.

I've heard much costlier systems not sound anywhere near as "musically engaging" as less costly systems, including loudspeakers alone.

You are introducing the variable of room setup. But generally speaking the owners of the more expensive speakers do have the resources to put into great setup. And given that, generally speaking the more expensive speakers will sound better and be more musically involving.

 

[Lee]

I own Maggies and have owned many Wilson speakers.... You want a dollar sign? Here it is:

$12-15k

Bruce, my first three speakers were Maggies and I am still a big fan of the brand. However, Magnepans can’t match the bass or musical involvement that’s possible with a pair of XVXs.

 

[Robh3606]

Musical engagement.

I can get musical engagement with my I-Pod and ear buds or listening in my car to the stock audio system. Cost has absolutely nothing to do with engagement. That is state of mind that can't be purchased in a speakers base price.

Rob

 

[Al M.]

I can get musical engagement with my I-Pod and ear buds or listening in my car to the stock audio system. Cost has absolutely nothing to do with engagement. That is state of mind that can't be purchased in a speakers base price.

Rob

Depends on the kind of musical engagement. The one that I can get at home is different from my car stereo.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

A hernia …

Seriously though, you may not value the sonic differences. The whole idea of $350k speakers may just be too nutty. So the $15k speaker, which may be truly very believable, seems to be the obviously better choice.

is the $5k bottle of wine really better than the $500 bottle? Maybe so … maybe no.

Is the $50 cigar really better than the $5 cigar?

The answers depend on your palate, and what you’re used to enjoying.

I love the fact that we have so many choices, and for every budget.

Several years ago a Stereophile reviewer said that the Revel 228Bes were as much speaker as anyone would need and that there was no incentive to spend more than its $11k msrp at the time. They parked it in their Class A category, alongside of several models costing 10 times as much. I can state unequivocally from my own experience that the 228Be was a great speaker at its typical 4 figure discounted selling point, but to my ears even the lowly Sabrina beat it on complex orchestral works.

Grape juice and bubblegum cigars for me please.

 

[Chops]

You are introducing the variable of room setup. But generally speaking the owners of the more expensive speakers do have the resources to put into great setup. And given that, generally speaking the more expensive speakers will sound better and be more musically involving.

Of course I am, because the room is part of it, as is the position of the loudspeakers in that room as well as the listening position.

Again, the more expensive loudspeakers are not a guarantee that they will "sound better and be more musically involving". It simply doesn't work that way.

The entire system upstream has to jell together and the amplifier(s) have to be happy dealing with whatever the load is the loudspeakers present to them. It's not just a matter of throwing top dollar gear at top dollar speakers and getting top dollar sound.

Bruce, my first three speakers were Maggies and I am still a big fan of the brand. However, Magnepans can’t match the bass or musical involvement that’s possible with a pair of XVXs.

You know, there's these things called "subwoofers". With two or more subwoofers set up properly in a room and dialed in with a pair of Magnepan's, you're more than likely to get much better bass performance and accuracy than just a pair of XVX's.

Why?... Simple... The XVX's and/or Magnepan's are or should be placed in the room for best possible mid-bass and midrange clarity, sound staging and imaging. When the XVX's are placed in those proper locations, they will not be in the best locations for proper bass reproduction, plain and simple.

And please don't reply back saying that XVX's don't need subwoofers, because they do as ALL loudspeakers do. Remember, subwoofers aren't just for "adding" bass or extending bass output of loudspeakers. Their main roll is flattening out the bass response in the room at the listening position. In other words, subwoofers are for "tuning" the room, hence why two or more subwoofers are desired.

 

[Solypsa]

generally speaking the owners of the more expensive speakers do have the resources to put into great setup.

I concede this assumption. But it takes resources ( $€£ ) AND motivation / desire ( I care and will learn / listen ).

Not always in sync in my humble experience.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Around 10 K new , depending on finish ( for a small /medium sized room )

I ll prove it with my new 3 way model .


Speakers can have any price number you wanna give them , but its balance and coherency what counts in the end.
Some small speakers have it, some expensive speakers have it .
And some expensive speakers dont have it .... making them unlistenable.

 

[Robh3606]

Depends on the kind of musical engagement. The one that I can get at home is different from my car stereo.

Hello

So I guess you can't relate???

And so is engagement at a live performance!!! Either you are paying attention and enjoying the music or your not.

Do you really want to get into splitting hairs about defining precise levels or grades of engagement???

The amount of money spent is not important to engagement IMHO. Engagement is in your head not your pocket book.

Rob