The ***Official*** Progressive Rock Thread

Ron Party

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Symphonic Prog

Symphonic is without doubt the sub-genre that includes the most bands in Progressive Rock because for many people it's almost synonymous classic Prog, something easy to understand being that most of the classic and/or pioneer bands released music that could be included in this sub-genre, except JETHRO TULL and PINK FLOYD (who still blended some symphonic elements), even KING CRIMSON who very soon expanded their horizons to more experimental music, made their debut with a Symphonic album, "In the Court of the Crimson King" which is a cornerstone in the development of the genre.

The main characteristics of Symphonic are the ones that defined all Progressive Rock: (There's nothing 100% new under the sun) which among others are:

* Mixture of elements from different genres.
* Complex time signatures.
* Lush keyboards.
* Explorative and intelligent lyrics, in some cases close to fantasy literature, Sci Fi and even political issues.
* Non commercial approach
* Longer format of songs


In this specific case the main characteristic is the influence of Classical music (understood as Orchestral works created from the late Gothic to Modern Classical) using normally more complex structure than other related sub-genres like Neo Progressive (That's why sometimes the borderline that divides Symphonic from Neo is so unclear being that is based mostly in a degree of complexity rather than in an evident structural difference)..It is easy to find long keyboard solos reminiscent of Johan Sebastian Bach or melodic works that could have been written by Handel.

As in any other genre, different Symphonic bands had different approaches to Classical music, for example YES and GENESIS are mainly influenced by the Baroque and Classical periods, while EMERSON LAKE & PALMER has a predilection for post Romantic and modern authors like Mussorgsky, Rimsky Korsakov, Bartok or Ginastera, being that their sound is less melodic and more aggressive.

The peak of the genre starts in 1969 and lasts until the mid/late 70's (more precisely until the release of A Trick of the Tail), when the genre begins to blend more mainstream influences that took to the birth of Neo Progressive (a new approach for a new decade).


It is important to remember that even though the creative peak of Symphonic Progressive ended before the 80's, we can find a second birth in the 90's coming from the Scandinavian countries (specially Sweden with ANGLAGARD or PAR LINDH PROJECT) and even bands that still in the 21st Century recreate music from this period like SPOCK'S BEARD or ECHOLYN.

Before ending this short description it is necessary to say that the term Symphonic is not 100% exact, because these bands very rarely played symphonies and was probably used because the music that influenced the genre was performed by Symphony Orchestras, but it is so widely accepted by the Progressive Rock community that would be absurd and futile for anybody to attempt a change after so much time.
 

Ron Party

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Tech/Extreme Prog Metal

This category contains a very broad range of bands. Most of them have one thing in common: technicality. Their music is very demanding to play and to listen to. The word "Extreme" has been added to the name of the category because most bands which are based in extreme metal genres (Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal) are also quite technical and/or achieve their progressiveness by making their music exceedingly complex.

The Early Years
There were few bands in the 1980s or early 1990s which can be attributed to this category. This is mostly due to the fact that the genres most of these bands are rooted in didn't exist yet. Even the bands listed as Avant - which aren't based on a fixed genre like Thrash or Death - needed these fixed genres as an influence. There are a few though - most notably WATCHTOWER and ATHEIST (Thrash), CYNIC (Jazz-Fusion/Thrash) and PESTILENCE (Black Metal).

The Modern Phase
This phase begins in the late 1990s. Thrash Metal and Death Metal had existed for about 10 years, Black Metal for about 5 years and bands were looking for new ways to express themselves. Similarly to the classic Progressive Metal bands of the 1980s they picked their favorite style of metal and added progressive elements - only this time it wasn't NWOBHM but a more extreme kind of metal instead.

It's slightly different for the Tech/Shred and Jazz-Fusion subcategories: Although the musicians of these bands often had a background in extreme metal they left the extreme elements behind and replaced them with other "things" ... often elements from Jazz-Fusion, but sometimes also from Classical music or classic Prog Rock / Prog-Fusion. A good example for such a transition is the late Chuck Schuldiner who not only turned his band (DEATH) from a standard Death Metal outfit into the first Progressive Death Metal band (as can be heard on "The Sound of Perseverance"), but also released a brilliant album under the band name CONTROL DENIED which wasn't Death Metal at all.

Avant-Garde Prog Metal
In a way this sub category can be seen as the counterpart to "RIO/Avant-Prog". All these bands are very experimental in an avant-garde fashion ... their music is difficult to "process" for people not used to this level of "quirkiness". Often weird and unusual instrumentation is used, or instruments used in unusual ways which defy the laws of tradition.

Progressive Thrash Metal
The name pretty much says it all. Technicality is an inherent property of Thrash Metal, so in order to achieve progressiveness the bands must add other elements to their music - usually experimentation, Jazz influences or a more epic and complex approach to songwriting.

Progressive Death Metal
This is not to be confused with "Technical Death Metal", a non-prog genre. Like explained in the previous category technicality alone is not enough to achieve progressiveness.

Progressive Black Metal
Black Metal is not a very technical genre - at least the original, "old-school" Black Metal is inherently non-technical and lo-fi. Typically the bands listed here are much more technical than the usual Black Metal outfit and/or add avant-garde elements to the music, or a more epic approach to songwriting.

Progressive Technical Metal
This category is quite similar to Progressive Metal Fusion - Jazz elements are frequently used, but not to the same extent. Usually this type of music is instrumental (exceptions confirm the rule), and it's a lot less weird than the Avant-Garde Progressive Metal bands. Often these bands try to make their composition as difficult to play as humanly possible (CANVAS SOLARIS said that in interviews).

Progressive Metal Fusion
These bands are applying Jazz-Fusion to Metal ... the results can turn out quite differently depending on which type of Jazz-Fusion is applied to which type of Metal.
 

Ron Party

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Zeuhl

Zeuhl is an adjective in Kobaïan, the language written by Christian Vander, drummer and founder of the French band Magma.

Pronunciation: zEU(h)l, while the EU are like a French E with a slight U, and the (h) is a semi-silent letter which is an integrated part of the EU, totaling in a "syllable and a half".

The word means celestial, although many times it is misunderstood as meaning "celestial music", since the members of Magma describe the genre of their music as Zeuhl. Zeuhl Wortz, though, means Music of the universal might.

The genre is a mixture of musical genres like Neoclassicism, Romanticism, Modernism and Fusion. Common elements: oppressive or discipline-conveying feel, marching themes, throbbing bass, an ethereal piano or Rhodes piano, and brass instruments.
 

RUR

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Apr 20, 2010
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Wow! The prog thread reborn with a vengeance! I'll need to re-read this a couple of times just to get my bearings, but this is absolutely fantastic, Ron.

Hopefully, folks will post info on their favorite prog bands/albums, as they did before the original thread disappeared into the great digital beyond.
 

Ron Party

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My top ten progressive rock albums of all time:

1. Genesis, Selling England By The Pound



2. Genesis, Foxtrot



3. King Crimson, In The Court Of The Crimson King



4. Pink Floyd, Animals



5. Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here



6. Pink Floyd, Dark Side Of The Moon



7. Genesis, Nursery Cryme



8. Jethro Tull, Thick As A Brick



9. Yes, Close To The Edge



10. Yes, The Yes Album



As you can see, I strongly lean toward the symphonic sub genre of progressive rock.
 

RUR

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I'm willing to go for a top two:



Renaissance Scheherazade and Other Stories. Renaissance, at the peak of their powers, use themes from the Rimsky Korsakov piece brilliantly. If you haven't heard this album, you're missing something truly special. MoFi LP or the brand-new Friday Music CD are the best choices.



What needs to be said? Another prog masterpiece.

After that, it's tough to make hard choices. More Genesis, more Renaissance, Pink Floyd, Ambrosia - so many superb albums to choose from I just can't rank order them.
 

RUR

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Having tried a number of modern prog bands - Marillon, Flower Kings, Spocks Beard - I've never found them to be comparable to the "classic" stuff, and they generally sit, unheard, in my collection. Recently, however, Ron was kind enough to send me a copy of this:



Dark Matter by IQ. Wow! How did I miss these guys? They've been making music since the '80s.

Fine musicians crafting lovely musical phrases into coherent compositions - the last a real shortcoming of modern prog bands, IMHO - their music runs the gamut from hauntingly ethereal to big, visceral power (a competent sub or three is probably de rigeur for this album). The finale is as beautiful and as moving as anything from the seventies.

Highly recommended.
 
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FrantzM

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Ron

You are scary. I will print this and read it very, very carefully.. Show me how little I knew about Prog Rock. Interestingly, your 10 best matches very closely mine. But these albums must figure in the top Ten... OK let's make it a baker's dozen:


Emerson Lake and Palmer "Trilogy"


Pink: Floyd Meddle


Renaissance: Novella


Gentle Giant: Acquiring The taste (among many others of their albums)
 

Ron Party

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Frantz, I thought long and hard about Trilogy and Meddle, but my dilemma was which album(s) would I pull from my top 10? I also thought long and hard about Crimson's Red.
 
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FrantzM

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Ken


EDIT: It is REPUK 1111..
 
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Phelonious Ponk

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Damn, Ron. That's impressive. I thought Prog more or less ended in the 70s and all that other stuff was variations on metal. Red would be up there for me. So would Starless and Bible Black, Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Aqualung, Fragile...

P
 

Robh3606

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Aug 24, 2010
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Anyone for Spartacus?? One of my favorite GG is Power and The Glory

Rob:)
 

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Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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Just emailed my dealer and asked for him to be on the lookout for some GG. I have the first 2, but they're in storage in Calgary. Thanks for the reminder, it's been a while since I last listened to them.

John
 

cjfrbw

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Just caught up with my "Illusions on a Double Dimple" Triumvirat from my un-played LP pile. Very nice. Kinna ELPish, Kinna Yesish with a twist and great lyrics.
 

naturephoto1

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Hi Ron,

I look forward to that LP or CD.

Here is another for Yes fans that unfortunately was initially released as the studio tracks for the Keys to the Ascension Tour on both live albums/cds. It was later remixed or slightly redone and released in 2001/2002. It is very difficult to find on vinyl and is out of print on CD. Too bad it had never been a usual LP release or it would have been quite a success. But, for fans it is reasonably close to the sound of Classic Yes in the time of Fragile, Close to the Edge, and Going for the One. It is extraordinarily well recorded and I use it as reference CD.



Rich
 

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