The Linn Exakt system and the future of high end audio.

[DaveyF]

Yesterday, I went to an excellent meeting at Alma audio to listen to the Linn Exakt system. Presented by Gilad Tiefenbrun of Linn, we were introduced to a system that is clearly a superb option for those with room problems or speaker limitations ( that's probably most of us). The group was enlightened by the flexibility and the overall increase in the SQ with the Exakt system in place. I'm no engineer, so I can only recant as to the basics of the design, but I believe that Gilad expounded on how the system takes the signal from a server and converts it to 24 bit audio, whereupon it is fed directly to the speakers via a CAT cable. At the speaker, which is an active design ( active x-over, which Gilad believes is one of the main strengths of his system vs. a passive x-over) with the amps built in ( and I believe the DAC as well) the result is a signal path that is far less corrupted than the norm. ( preamp, amp, ic's, speaker cables, etc.,). The ability of the DSP to correct in the room is enhanced, according to Gilad, by not having to utilize a microphone or any other listening device. The computer apparently utilizes a proprietary algorithm that corrects the sound based on room size and other info given by the user.
More info on the Exakt system can be found here:
http://www.linn.co.uk/music-systems/technology/exakt

Firstly, I have to say that the sound that was evident on the non Exakt modeled isobarik loaded speakers was un-exceptional....this when placed up against the rear wall. Gilad proceeded to place the speakers into a much more favorable listening position and into the room...the SQ increased dramatically. The bass filled out and the imaging became more precise. The depth portrayal also locked in. This all without the Exakt DSP correction. Then Gilad added in the Ekaxt correction and once again the SQ jumped forward...this time to a level that was highly impressive! I think the group was immensely impressed, as was I!
For those into DSP room correction, I asked how this system compared to the Devialet system...to which Gilad answered that the Devialet simply boosted the bass and nothing more! I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on the Devialet, but the Exakt is certainly something that I think we will see more of in the future.
Another interesting take away from the meet....Gilad does NOT believe in DSD....seems to think that Sony is pushing this format and that it ultimately is a dead end with no future!
All in all, a great evening with entertaining music and a great host. I do recommend that if anyone can take the opportunity to listen to a Linn Exakt system that they do so...I think the future of high end audio is here.

 

[asiufy]

Hi Dave!

Unfortunately I had to miss this event (couple of last minute things to take care of here in Brazil...), but I'm glad you enjoyed the evening!

I had never seen Gilad "in action", but by all accounts, he was great

From the little I've seen, the Exakt is DSP done without the usual mic measurements. You feed the Linn device with all sorts of information, through their app (avaiable for computers): your room dimensions, materials, distances, along with your speaker information (it also works in non-active setups, with many third-party speakers). The device then calculates the effect of all these factors combined, and DSP the signal to simulate a "perfect" position/performance for that room/setup combination.

One thing I saw being done that was fairly impressive is that you can actually place the speakers on the back wall, give the Linn that information, and it'll DSP the signal to produce the same sound as if they were in that ideal position, out into the room! Of course, this is not 100% perfect, but it's pretty close, and fairly impressive! For tight spaces and/or shared areas, where a speaker can't be put way out into the room, this is pretty incredible!

As for DSD, well... Hervé likes Windows! So, I like to think that even exceptional people aren't beyond having weird opinions and misconceptions on things


cheers,
alex

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Yesterday, I went to an excellent meeting at Alma audio to listen to the Linn Exakt system. Presented by Gilad Tiefenbrun of Linn, we were introduced to a system that is clearly a superb option for those with room problems or speaker limitations ( that's probably most of us). The group was enlightened by the flexibility and the overall increase in the SQ with the Exakt system in place. I'm no engineer, so I can only recant as to the basics of the design, but I believe that Gilad expounded on how the system takes the signal from a server and converts it to 24 bit audio, whereupon it is fed directly to the speakers via a CAT cable. At the speaker, which is an active design ( active x-over, which Gilad believes is one of the main strengths of his system vs. a passive x-over) with the amps built in ( and I believe the DAC as well) the result is a signal path that is far less corrupted than the norm. ( preamp, amp, ic's, speaker cables, etc.,). The ability of the DSP to correct in the room is enhanced, according to Gilad, by not having to utilize a microphone or any other listening device. The computer apparently utilizes a proprietary algorithm that corrects the sound based on room size and other info given by the user.

All this is admirable but hardly novel. As a system, Meridian has been doing this for years. As for active crossovers, yeah, we did this decades ago. "No microphone or other listening device?" This means that the information for the system is limited. Too limited, imho. Still, all this is a serious effort.

Firstly, I have to say that the sound that was evident on the non Exakt modeled isobarik loaded speakers was un-exceptional....this when placed up against the rear wall. Gilad proceeded to place the speakers into a much more favorable listening position and into the room...the SQ increased dramatically. The bass filled out and the imaging became more precise. The depth portrayal also locked in. This all without the Exakt DSP correction. Then Gilad added in the Ekaxt correction and once again the SQ jumped forward...this time to a level that was highly impressive! I think the group was immensely impressed, as was I!

Yup. I can do that.

For those into DSP room correction, I asked how this system compared to the Devialet system...to which Gilad answered that the Devialet simply boosted the bass and nothing more! I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on the Devialet, but the Exakt is certainly something that I think we will see more of in the future.

Mebbe. Mebbe not. I have not used the Devialet but I look at it somewhat as I see the Exakt DSP. I'd sooner ask for comparison to more potent methods like Dirac, Trinnov or DEQX.

Another interesting take away from the meet....Gilad does NOT believe in DSD....seems to think that Sony is pushing this format and that it ultimately is a dead end with no future!

Irrelevant. I don't believe in LPs. ;-)

All in all, a great evening with entertaining music and a great host. I do recommend that if anyone can take the opportunity to listen to a Linn Exakt system that they do so...I think the future of high end audio is here.

Looking forward to it.

 

[asiufy]

Here's Gilad @ CES 2016!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jcbDitslI

He touches a lot of the points that I mentioned, in a bit more detail...

 

[asiufy]

One cool thing the Linns can do (that I'm not sure the Meridians can) is that it can stream vinyl. Let's say you have your vinyl rig in one room, but you want to listen in a separate room. If you have Linn gear on both places, you'll be able to stream the analog playback (now digitized, of course) to the second location!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

One cool thing the Linns can do (that I'm not sure the Meridians can) is that it can stream vinyl. Let's say you have your vinyl rig in one room, but you want to listen in a separate room. If you have Linn gear on both places, you'll be able to stream the analog playback (now digitized, of course) to the second location!

Hey, if it's digital now, many things can stream it. Of course, Linn's streaming is one of their strengths.

 

[DaveyF]

I think Gilad mentioned that the system does not use a microphone to collect data info. I remember him saying that a microphone system is very limited due to a) the quality, or lack thereof, of the microphone and b) the fact that a microphone is only listening in one location.
Also, he did demonstrate the speakers against the back wall, as you mentioned Alex....this was pretty impressive as the sound with Exakt was very close to the sound when the speakers were in their optimal position.
I talked about the LP12 with Gilad, and he did bring up a couple of interesting points....1) The system can take a feed from the phono preamp and convert that feed to 24 bit digital ( NOT something that I personally think would be a great idea, as IMHO analog from vinyl is far higher resolution than digital at 24bit ) and 2) I asked Gilad about the continued support of the table...which to me is VERY important; to which he answered that into the foreseeable future, Linn was 100% behind the platform and would be continuing to update and upgrade the table as much as possible.
Kal, you don't like vinyl???? You don't believe in LP's???.......

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I think Gilad mentioned that the system does not use a microphone to collect data info. I remember him saying that a microphone system is very limited due to a) the quality, or lack thereof, of the microphone and b) the fact that a microphone is only listening in one location.

That's an irresponsible statement. How can he know the quality of microphone that someone will use? Just like your ears, the microphone is only listening in one location at a time. The better systems take multiple measurements at numerous locations.

Kal, you don't like vinyl???? You don't believe in LP's???.......

If I do, why is that relevant to this system?

 

[DaveyF]

That's an irresponsible statement. How can he know the quality of microphone that someone will use? Just like your ears, the microphone is only listening in one location at a time. The better systems take multiple measurements at numerous locations.

If I do, why is that relevant to this system?

Kal, I think Gilad's point was that his ( Linn's) system does not rely on a variable that they cannot control...that is the quality of the microphone that is used to collect the data. Even though the better systems take multiple measurements at numerous locations, I believe that Gilad's point was that this is still a single point in space....even though that point may be moved to a few different locations. I suspect that including a very high quality microphone is not an option...and are we sure that this is the case with other DSP systems that do use a microphone?
Not liking vinyl is not relevant to this system, unless you happen to believe that digital is superior to vinyl, in which case, you would probably like the system more. After all, it is a purely digitally based system that is fundamentally relying on the idea that 24bit resolution is the ultimate. I happen to not think so...to my ears, digital still has a long way to go before it sounds as realistic as great vinyl. YMMV.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, I think Gilad's point was that his ( Linn's) system does not rely on a variable that they cannot control...that is the quality of the microphone that is used to collect the data. Even though the better systems take multiple measurements at numerous locations, I believe that Gilad's point was that this is still a single point in space....even though that point may be moved to a few different locations. I suspect that including a very high quality microphone is not an option...and are we sure that this is the case with other DSP systems that do use a microphone?

I don't buy any of those points. There are crap microphones but the better systems use quality microphones (which, btw, are calibrated instrumentation microphones, not recording microphones). As for the multiple point measurements being constrained by being in only one place at a time, that is simply not a substantive point. Everything is at one place at a time, including your ears. The multiple-point and/or multiple-microphone technique is the basis of all scientific and professional acoustical measurements including, I am guessing, those in Linn's own labs. Gilad is presenting his system in the best possible light and asserting arguments which are not generally accepted. Unfortunately, there was no one present to call him on this. If there had been, perhaps he would have clarified his statements.

Not liking vinyl is not relevant to this system, unless you happen to believe that digital is superior to vinyl, in which case, you would probably like the system more. After all, it is a purely digitally based system that is fundamentally relying on the idea that 24bit resolution is the ultimate. I happen to not think so...to my ears, digital still has a long way to go before it sounds as realistic as great vinyl. YMMV.

Again, irrelevant, although it might bias some one way or another. IMHO, the system either sounds good or not.

 

[DaveyF]

I don't buy any of those points. There are crap microphones but the better systems use quality microphones (which, btw, are calibrated instrumentation microphones, not recording microphones). As for the multiple point measurements being constrained by being in only one place at a time, that is simply not a substantive point. Everything is at one place at a time, including your ears. The multiple-point and/or multiple-microphone technique is the basis of all scientific and professional acoustical measurements including, I am guessing, those in Linn's own labs. Gilad is presenting his system in the best possible light and asserting arguments which are not generally accepted. Unfortunately, there was no one present to call him on this. If there had been, perhaps he would have clarified his statements.

Again, irrelevant, although it might bias some one way or another. IMHO, the system either sounds good or not.

Actually there was a room full of engineers at the event, no one called out Gilad.
"The system either sounds good or not"---that's not really the point. The system sounds good, but it can sound a lot 'better' with the correction in place. A good sounding system can also be had at your local Fry's...but I doubt that anyone here would consider it to be up to the standard that we are trying to achieve. Again, I guess YMMV..particularly when it comes to vinyl.

 

[Purite Audio]

Actually there was a room full of engineers at the event, no one called out Gilad.
"The system either sounds good or not"---that's not really the point. The system sounds good, but it can sound a lot 'better' with the correction in place. A good sounding system can also be had at your local Fry's...but I doubt that anyone here would consider it to be up to the standard that we are trying to achieve. Again, I guess YMMV..particularly when it comes to vinyl.

Linn's method is at best half baked, this only shows that Linn and their CEO do not have a clue.
Keith.

 

[bonzo75]

If I hadn't got trapped in the obsessive world of audiophilia, I would have picked up a Linn Akubarik Exakt. Used price under 10k, sounds great, plug and play. Only one power cable required, no ICs or speaker cables (Ethernet cables from streamer to the speakers). Stream through a PC. Nice midrange, soundstage, fullness and bass, both rock and classical enjoyable. One needs a really massive expensive well matched system in a good room to beat this. Normal expensive stuff just put together like in most systems in suboptimal rooms usually sounds worse. But then optimizing that is the fun OCDed part of the hobby

 

[asiufy]

People that are questioning Linn's choice of not having a microphone are missing the point. The goal here is to have the system be as simple as possible for the end user. Remember, this capability was added to existing product, via a software upgrade!

AFAIK, it is possible to mathematically map the room and its nodes by having information about its size and materials, as well as the position of the speakers and listening location, and the capabilities of the speaker itself. Whether it's better than having a microphone and multiple measurement points, that is up for debate, on a theoretical level, and I'd love to do some comparison of a Linn system x one with DEQX for instance, that uses proper microphone measurement. But to call Linn and its army of engineers "clueless" is beyond ridiculous, and is a sure fire way to steer this thread in a very bad way...

 

[FrantzM]

People that are questioning Linn's choice of not having a microphone are missing the point. The goal here is to have the system be as simple as possible for the end user. Remember, this capability was added to existing product, via a software upgrade!

AFAIK, it is possible to mathematically map the room and its nodes by having information about its size and materials, as well as the position of the speakers and listening location, and the capabilities of the speaker itself. Whether it's better than having a microphone and multiple measurement points, that is up for debate, on a theoretical level, and I'd love to do some comparison of a Linn system x one with DEQX for instance, that uses proper microphone measurement. But to call Linn and its army of engineers "clueless" is beyond ridiculous, and is a sure fire way to steer this thread in a very bad way...

Rooms vary so much that this choice (no microphone) is at least odd and for me, wrong. I wouldn't call Linn clueless personally but however large the company or bright his/her engineers, management , marketing could be they are not above missing the target. to wit Microsoft with Win Vista and to make sure of repeating the mistakes of the past Win 8. So no! they aren't clueless , perhaps misguided.

 

[asiufy]

Yes, room vary a lot. That's why you enter every bit of information about your room in the Linn app, down to the materials used in the construction. Now, microphones. They vary quite a lot too, but that's beyond Linn's control, and would require the user to supply a calibration profile, or calibre the mic themselves, which, again, is not very user-friendly (one of Linn's goals).

 

[asiufy]

BTW, before I get torched in public here, I'm NOT advocating against measuring rooms with microphones, in multiple spots, and not even advocating against DSP in general. I just think there are levels of complexity involved here, and most likely, levels of performance that can be obtained with either method.

 

[Purite Audio]

People that are questioning Linn's choice of not having a microphone are missing the point. The goal here is to have the system be as simple as possible for the end user. Remember, this capability was added to existing product, via a software upgrade!

AFAIK, it is possible to mathematically map the room and its nodes by having information about its size and materials, as well as the position of the speakers and listening location, and the capabilities of the speaker itself. Whether it's better than having a microphone and multiple measurement points, that is up for debate, on a theoretical level, and I'd love to do some comparison of a Linn system x one with DEQX for instance, that uses proper microphone measurement. But to call Linn and its army of engineers "clueless" is beyond ridiculous, and is a sure fire way to steer this thread in a very bad way...

If Gilad truly stated what Davey F said, then that is clueless, to dismiss passive treatment is ridiculous, perhaps he said it as a marketing ploy ,or is just ignorant either way poor.
For the price of the Linn systems, the manufacturer could have given their dealers a microphone and taught them how to use it.
Keith.

 

[Rodney Gold]

It requires about 3 minutes to set up and measure a room with dirac or Acourate .. and you do nothing else , the program does the rest.. no entering a database of info for a "guestimate" of what the room/speakers are doing at listening position
You cannot correct a room anyway via dsp , you can only fully correct at a listening position.
Those that know DRC and acoustics also know Its a 1/2 baked system at best..BUT better than nothing at all..

 

[Kal Rubinson]

People that are questioning Linn's choice of not having a microphone are missing the point. The goal here is to have the system be as simple as possible for the end user. Remember, this capability was added to existing product, via a software upgrade!

Yes, room vary a lot. That's why you enter every bit of information about your room in the Linn app, down to the materials used in the construction.

I certainly would not think this is an easier way to do it and, frankly, only the home builder can know the construction details of the room and no one, not even the owner or designer, knows the acoustical properties of the design/decoration/furniture.

Now, microphones. They vary quite a lot too, but that's beyond Linn's control, and would require the user to supply a calibration profile, or calibre the mic themselves, which, again, is not very user-friendly (one of Linn's goals).

Nonsense. Anyone who uses measurement microphones knows that (1) they come with calibration files and (2) how to use those files. Moreover, it would not be of significant cost for Linn to provide a suitable microphone.

Whether it's better than having a microphone and multiple measurement points, that is up for debate, on a theoretical level, .....

It is not up for debate. Anyone who has done such modelling knows how idealized it is and that it can, under the best of conditions and intentions, provide only an approximation of the real room.

Linn has chosen their approach and they are entitled to present it in the best light and anyone else with some experience on the topic is entitled to criticize their choice and their presentation.