The last turntable and the last CD

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Jack, I certainly like the part with the rifle and yes, I know what that extra bass out of a dam fine rifle feels like!

Glad to hear that you are enjoying your system to the fullest. Just this afternoon, I picked up 8 more Lp's from a great store at the Westfield mall. All were 180g pressings and now I'm broke again! What the hec it's fully worth it. The good wife, daughter and I were listening to Ed Sheering "X" album, superb recording! I then put on Alecia Keys, another good one, and of course I had to pick up the legend, MJ's "Bad" album just for pure sonics and entertainment. Done up by Quincy Jones another fantastic recording on vinyl. These were apart from the usual jazz LP's that I picked up as well. Never heard of Etta Jones, great vocals and now I'm listening to Vince Guaraldi Trio, another superb one on 180g heavyweight.
Tomorrow I'm picking up one that I ordered weeks ago, Ray Charles, Genius Loves Company, on 200g audiophile limited edition pressing. That Lp alone was $100!
Dam expensive this audiophile pressings.
But simply stunning music!
Cheers, RJ

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Those are some nice artists and titles you picked up. I've always liked Alicia Keys, but have nothing on vinyl from here. I'm meeting up with 2 guys on the 12th at a record fair here in Calgary, so I'll have a quick browse to see if I can find one of her albums. I've not bought any vinyl for several months now, so I'm due for a few.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Johnny, how's it going mate? Trust your tt issue is being looked at and something will be sorted out soon...
Wish I could have a listen to your Oracle paris once it's set up and running. I bet that would be some experience to learn from.

Yes, Alecia Keys album, "sings in A minor" on 180g heavyweight is simply superb! The transient attacks and back ground details are remarkable and come through the rega and 2mblack with finesse. I'm really enjoying this vinyl journey, and now I'm upto to 21 Lp's and counting. ..

Apart from the too many cd's & sacd's I have, at least now I have enough lp's to last into the wee hours of the morning. Now it is just around quarter to 1am in melbourne, and I can't seem to get off the couch!
Cheers Johnny, do let us know how your Oracle goes.
Take it easy mate, RJ

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

It's a long weekend here so I won't have a final answer until Monday, perhaps Tuesday, but it looks like Oracle will be sending me a new Tonearm. We've determined its a wiring issue within the arm assembly. As such it'll be a few more weeks before I'll be up and running. I'm also still waiting for my Grado Reference Sonata 1 cartridge to be returned from Grado Labs. Good thing I have a nice assortment of CD/SACD to keep me musically satisfied.

I've really been enjoying SADE - Soldier of Love on CD and will be picking up it up on vinyl for sure. I'm a big fan!

 

[alfa100]

I heard some really expensive turntable setups and cannot believe all this talk about LP sounding better than CD.
After listening to LP at my buddy's place and then listening to CD at my home, I do not feel the urge to swop my system for his.
My MSB kit is involving , musical and satisfying.
Maybe because I enjoy my system as a whole, all matched up with speakers ,cable and amplifier to my taste.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey good on you mate! Glad you are enjoying your music via digital on your system. That's great to hear.

Infact something interesting happened over this long weekend. I was playing a sacd opus 3 label of Eric Bibb Just to warm up the system, and it certainly warmed it up very nicely! The recording was fantastic! It had all the warmth, depth and soundstage I was after. So it seems like my mac sacd unit is quite good afterall. So I pulled out a few more of these Opus 3 labels and noticed that not all of them are great. ..

Some are just about ok, and present the overall sonics and soundstage as a regular recording, nothing special. Then there are some that are outstanding! The Russell Mallone cd that was skipping turned out to be an entire defective batch. So my cd chap called up the supplier and has arranged for a total recall.

Apart from that, I actually sat down and listened to sacd's that entire night, only to change to lp after midnight. I really enjoyed the session and noticed that the digital sound gets just about everything right. To me this biggest one factor of comparison to the lp is that the lp has that extra expansion of a note. I noticed this especially on strings, double bass and lead guitar, also quite noticeable on organ, hammond b3 and that "raw" brass sound of a trombone, saxophone or trumpet.

I did the following comparisons directly from lp to cd/sacd:
1. Norah Jones come away with me
2. Ray Charles genius loves company
3. Miles Davis kind of blue
4. Diana krall quiet nights

All of the above were on sacd except Diana Krall,and they were superb recordings. The lp of the same are all 180g audiophile pressings (limited edition) which are also superb recordings. So the question is which medium is better? I would say neither, having spent a considerable amount of time listening A to B comparisons, I guess it's a matter of taste.

The only sonic aspect I experienced was greater depth and expansion of the Ray Charles lp. I am glad this was the case since that lp cost me nearly 200 smackers! It has now become my reference lp for music and system matching, simply spectacular recording!

Hey Johnny and to all lp lovers, try to get hold of this one from Ray Charles, you won't regret it!

Anyway, now I am quite overjoyed as I am enjoying both my digital and analouge gear.
Cheers to all, signing off RJ

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Ray Charles - Genius Loves Company is one of those LPs that have been on my list to get, but something else always seems to bump it down on the list. One day I guess. My vinyl buying has been pretty much non-existent these last few months, but I'm going to a record fair/show this coming Sunday and will no doubt be coming home with a few goodies under my arm. I'm particularly looking to score a nice copy of BB King - Live in Cook County Jail. I have 2 copies, but I know I can find a better one.

 

[LL21]

Ray Charles - Genius Loves Company is one of those LPs that have been on my list to get, but something else always seems to bump it down on the list. One day I guess. My vinyl buying has been pretty much non-existent these last few months, but I'm going to a record fair/show this coming Sunday and will no doubt be coming home with a few goodies under my arm. I'm particularly looking to score a nice copy of BB King - Live in Cook County Jail. I have 2 copies, but I know I can find a better one.

Have you heard this one?


Its one of my go to Ray Charles albums...and the remarkable thing is that the Charles singing and the Basie band never actually performed these together. Here is the description:

"In 2006, Concord Music Group and Starbucks Hear Music collaborated on a technologically groundbreaking project that merged the sounds of two iconic figures in American popular music. `Ray Sings, Basie Swings', released in October 2006, combined archival vocal tracks from R&B and soul icon Ray Charles with brilliant new arrangements and performances by the Count Basie Orchestra. Hailed by critics as one of the finest albums of the year, `Ray Sings, Basie Swings' marks the first and only recording in which "the genius" is backed by the legendary bandleader's orchestra.
Enter Telarc International, a member company in the multi-label Concord Music Group and a leader in digital recording technology since the late 1970s. Telarc recording engineer Michael Bishop, winner of numerous GRAMMY Awards, has taken this engineering marvel a quantum leap further by remixing Concord's original 2-channel recording for multi-channel SACD. The result is a recording that makes this perceived "collaboration" all the more real and immediate."

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ok Johnny, I hope you get that Ray Charles one sooner or later, and don't forget the audiophile 180g pressing, it's just awesome!
Infact, I'm listening to another audiophile pressing of Ornette Coleman, fancy alto sax player! Great stuff indeed. I have one from John Coltrane, very smooth tenor sax vibes off this guy. Ornette Coleman is something else!
Cheers, RJ

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi Lloyd! No, I have not heard this.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Thanks for that recommendation Lloyd. Will certainly be odering this one on my next list.
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Ok Johnny, I hope you get that Ray Charles one sooner or later, and don't forget the audiophile 180g pressing, it's just awesome!
Infact, I'm listening to another audiophile pressing of Ornette Coleman, fancy alto sax player! Great stuff indeed. I have one from John Coltrane, very smooth tenor sax vibes off this guy. Ornette Coleman is something else!
Cheers, RJ

I have a few Coleman, Coltrane, Mobley, Gordon, etc LPs that I quite enjoy, although admittedly I'm not nearly as much of a Jazz fan as most here.

 

[alfa100]

Thank you RJ
Your comparison between CD/SACD and vinyl means a lot.
I guess I might look into a Rega turntable and phonostage to get the best of both worlds .
Enjoy the music.
alfa100

 

[LL21]

Thanks for that recommendation Lloyd. Will certainly be odering this one on my next list.
Cheers mate, RJ

Let me know what you think. Hope you enjoy it. I am sure if you got to allmusic.com, they have samples you can listen to first. I use that site quite often if the samples are not on Amazon.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Alfa, glad to hear that you are considering a TT, and even better a Rega.

I must tell you though about my experience with tt's and analog gear. Going back about 25 years, I used to dj a lot for private parties and functions using records of course. As time went on I discovered cd's, and for dj'ing cd's were awesome. They were very easy to use, especially for que music and selection, the quality and dynamic range was far superior to records and I was actually the first to introduce cds into colombo's dj scene. After that nearly everyone started using cd's and now of course it's totally digital at nearly all night clubs.

Fast foward 23 plus years and now have settled into valve amplification and electro-stats. I used a few tt's back then such as technics, Kenwood, akai, sony, dual, thorens and project. None of them could beat my digital gear at the time. I had a full dual chassis cj transport and separate dac. I even had the awesome weiss dac with a wadia transport at one point. however, I always preferred cd players with valves, the sound was closer to analog and very musical, without of course the pops, clicks and all the nasties associated with tt's.

My digital gear went on to improve with of course greater clarity and I finally settled for a mcintosh sacd player with the plan of upgrading to mac's finest dac and use the sacd unit as a dedicated transport. This sound was marvelous!

Then I noticed that lp's were making a come back and with some fancy looking gear that sounded fantastic but when I inquired about pricing, I was quoted figures in the range of 15 grand and upwards. I was also told that in order to compete with the current status of the digital gear I had, I would have to spend at least around 12 grand to match it's performance, and these are the chaps who sold me the mac gear in the first place.

So just for kicks, I ventured into a store that specialises in tt and all analog gear. I just tried a vert basic tt to start the demo and I couldn't believe the musicality! So I bought the next best in line at settled for a Rega RP3 without having to go broke. It was fully worth it!
Cheers, RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hi Alfa,

Just continuing from the above; what I'm trying to imply is that if there is an analog rig that can provide the warmth and depth of vinyl without having to spend mega bucks, then it would be certainly something worthwhile considering. If the Rega was not capable of delivering what I was after then I wouldn't have bought it at all.

I have auditioned some mega dollar analog rigs that sounded superb but then again, they were partnered with systems costing mega dollars as well. So what's the point of that? Having purchased a tt that costs around 20 grand and hooking this upto the existing system will start the viscous cycle of upgrading every component all over again and this is exactly what those "trusted" dealers love! So they welcome you with open arms and claim that you're their "best" customer!

The funny thing is after the mac dealer realized that I had gone for a very simple Rega tt, his very words were "oh! Really, you bought a rega? Did you know that we also sell Rega, hey we could have done a great deal for you. .." yeah right! They're the mob that told me there is no point in going for the cheap stuff in the first place. ..

A text book rule in sales "never over-sell to your existing customers, stick to basics otherwise you will lose them altogether" and that is exactly what happened, ha!

Another thing I must emphasize is that not all lp's sound good. The normal ones are no better than standard cd format and probably sound far worse. It is only the well known labels and 180g & 200g audiophile pressings that are superior, and these are dam expensive in Australia. I would think they may be cheaper in the US or more affordable at least.

enjoy your music and all the best in your future search for analog.
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[number95]

Hi Alfa,

Just continuing from the above; what I'm trying to imply is that if there is an analog rig that can provide the warmth and depth of vinyl without having to spend mega bucks, then it would be certainly something worthwhile considering. If the Rega was not capable of delivering what I was after then I wouldn't have bought it at all.

I have auditioned some mega dollar analog rigs that sounded superb but then again, they were partnered with systems costing mega dollars as well. So what's the point of that? Having purchased a tt that costs around 20 grand and hooking this upto the existing system will start the viscous cycle of upgrading every component all over again and this is exactly what those "trusted" dealers love! So they welcome you with open arms and claim that you're their "best" customer!

The funny thing is after the mac dealer realized that I had gone for a very simple Rega tt, his very words were "oh! Really, you bought a rega? Did you know that we also sell Rega, hey we could have done a great deal for you. .." yeah right! They're the mob that told me there is no point in going for the cheap stuff in the first place. ..

A text book rule in sales "never over-sell to your existing customers, stick to basics otherwise you will lose them altogether" and that is exactly what happened, ha!

Another thing I must emphasize is that not all lp's sound good. The normal ones are no better than standard cd format and probably sound far worse. It is only the well known labels and 180g & 200g audiophile pressings that are superior, and these are dam expensive in Australia. I would think they may be cheaper in the US or more affordable at least.

enjoy your music and all the best in your future search for analog.
Cheers mate, RJ

I think it is not fair to make a general statement such that all heavy newer pressings are superior to classic weight vinyl. I have lots of first pressings or so which are not heavier as 180-200gr, but some are much better than recent 180 gr pressings of the same album. One has to also consider mastering, cutting, pressing processes as overall to judge.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I think it is not fair to make a general statement such that all heavy newer pressings are superior to classic weight vinyl. I have lots of first pressings or so which are not heavier as 180-200gr, but some are much better than recent 180 gr pressings of the same album. One has to also consider mastering, cutting, pressing processes as overall to judge.

Agree 100%. There are reasons why many original first/second pressings demand the prices they do...they simply sound better than anything else produced in later years and decades. I have yet to hear a better pressing of Dark Side of the Moon than the 2nd UK Harvest A3/B3 pressing. My original German Island Pink label press of Tea For The Tillerman is another one, and there are many, many more.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes no doubt gentlemen that is correct.
What I meant with my general statement was something I have experienced with my current collection, which is only 25 Lp's! and a few other fellow music lovers who have taken up to Lp more recently.
There is no doubt the very first pressings and originals can never be replaced. That is why you cannot find then anymore.

There are a number of so called vinyl companies sprouting up like mushrooms claiming to be original recordings, they are actually copied from very low quality MP3 files, and transferred onto vinyl. To name a few: plain recordings, jazz city, jazz wax and recordings on vinyl. One of these companies was sued big time from the original artist a few years ago...

I picked up an Etta James on wax city and it was awful! Way too much surface noise, pops, clicks and some scratching in the background. I returned it immediately and the store manager apologized. I was refunded for the amount and then later told by the GM of the store about these dodgy labels. I respected him for that and now they only offer me originals or audiophile pressings, which are indeed far more superior to the general stuff they have. The GM was also smart to do this by confessing, and knowing that now I trust them hence will bring them more business, good sales strategy! He could have denied it and ignored me, hence lost many more sales in the long run...

In Melbourne you will not find original Lp's in major music retail stores, such as JB HiFi, Basement Discs, or the like. There are however specialty stores such as Thomas Music, Goldmine Records and Fine Fish Music. They will carry original stuff and also offer the audiophile versions. I managed to pick up a few original ones of Kenny Burrell and Nina Simone, great sounding and not 180g, just standard. These are very rare to find, almost impossible! I am sure though in time to come when the Lp bug starts to hit more and more music lovers, more quality stuff will be widely available. However, it will cost nearly twice or three times the price compared to the US market.

Compare this scenario to the US, it is a whole different ball game and dimension! You guys have it all, plus your music labels are head-quartered over there either in Chicago or New York, and what's even better is the original artists live there! We cannot compete when in comes to the wide range of music/software or gear that is available. Over here we have to make do with what is on offer... that's about it!

I do know of certain die-hard music fans here who import all their stuff, even their gear but they pay a very high price for it and only import from places like Singapore, Hong Kong or Japan. They have built very strong relationships with their dealers/distributors, to them they are almost like family. Therefore, they only purchase from these chaps and no one else. Some of their systems are VERY elaborate, and very impressive, I haven't seen anything like it before. I am talking about separate audio rooms dedicated only for 2 channel stereo, and then another entirely different room dedicated for movies, and the rooms are like mini theaters! Big massive bucks here, way beyond my league, I was just fortunate to visit these places because of the logistics business I work in, nothing else really! It was certainly a treat to see these awesome systems!

Ok, must get some rest now, take it easy all and enjoy the music.
Cheers, RJ

 

[BruceD]

Agree 100%. There are reasons why many original first/second pressings demand the prices they do...they simply sound better than anything else produced in later years and decades. I have yet to hear a better pressing of Dark Side of the Moon than the 2nd UK Harvest A3/B3 pressing. My original German Island Pink label press of Tea For The Tillerman is another one, and there are many, many more.

Agree my original Cat Stevens Islands are far superior to the "Latest" versions-- as for Four Men with Beards --choose carefully with those!

Some are using the CD Digital Masters to press to Vinyl-- I saw mention of the Eva Cassidy Live at Blues Alley being current in that mode.

Caveat Emptor

BruceD