The Ken Kessler theory

[NorthStar]

There's more and more live music being released this way, though.

-----Exactly!

Tim, there are some exceptionally good Blu-ray music concerts out there; and that is a fact.
For example; Peter Gabriel - New Blood - Live in London - 3D. :b
...Just google it for fun. ...But there are many other BD titles with excellent multichannel music recording quality (high res audio) and with high def picture quality as well.
To deprive yourself of those is to miss some good things in life, IMO. :b

 

[audioguy]

I guess we've wandered way off the Ken Kessler topic!! I watch 3 types of Bluray sources in our theater [in addition to college football on DirecTV]: (1) "relationship movies" [a term I stole from a friend]; (2) action/adventure movies and (3) concerts. I play the relationship movies at well below reference as I do watching TV. Depending on the concert, I will turn it up either a bit or a lot, depending on the kind of music. Diana Krall a little bit (at about the same volume I listen to music) and John Mayer a lot louder. I do the same thing when listening to rock/pop from a CD source. Adventure movies go up to the next level and (some) action movies get real loud. (and crazy loud if my bride is not around!!).

Some of the movies noted above (e.g. U-571, Master and Commander and quite a few more --- like most of the Bruce Willis Die Hard movies) are much more fun at close to reference volume. And "fun" is why I have a dedicated music room/theater!!

 

[NorthStar]

I'm with you on this. There's nothing more annoying than having to keep one hand on the remote throughout an entire movie to make sure that you can understand the dialogue and not go deaf from the sound effects and music. It's gotten out of hand.

Totally out of control. I have a 15-year-old son, so we watch a few action movies. Even just playing the audio through the speakers of the Panasonic TV requires riding the volume control. The people who produce these things need to get back in touch with who the home audience is and how they're using the product.

Tim

-----The movie 'Safe House' on Blu-ray is a good example of what you guys talkin' 'bout here. And not only on the audio side but also on the video side as well.

Another flick; 'Sherlock Homes - A game of Shadows', also on Blu-ray, and directed by Guy Ritchie is so extreme visually and auditorily that you are in constant stance of desequilibrium!

* Those type of flicks are made mainly for the impact (bad), and not for audiophiles and videophiles.
The directors and recording/mixing engineers were born under a same bad moon rising!
Kid's stuff, and going for their money too. But then, most Hollywood studios are all in the same bad boat crossing all the vast oceans of lost souls.

True ART doesn't sell. You have to impose sick stuff to most people.
This is truly sad as our culture means dick for the majority of people living on Earth!

It is up to us to choose wisely the true artistic/cinematic films. ...And not to Hollywood to dictate us! Because all they want is money (our money), none else!

 

[Bill Hart]

I guess we've wandered way off the Ken Kessler topic!! I watch 3 types of Bluray sources in our theater [in addition to college football on DirecTV]: (1) "relationship movies" [a term I stole from a friend]; (2) action/adventure movies and (3) concerts. I play the relationship movies at well below reference as I do watching TV. Depending on the concert, I will turn it up either a bit or a lot, depending on the kind of music. Diana Krall a little bit (at about the same volume I listen to music) and John Mayer a lot louder. I do the same thing when listening to rock/pop from a CD source. Adventure movies go up to the next level and (some) action movies get real loud. (and crazy loud if my bride is not around!!).

Some of the movies noted above (e.g. U-571, Master and Commander and quite a few more --- like most of the Bruce Willis Die Hard movies) are much more fun at close to reference volume. And "fun" is why I have a dedicated music room/theater!!

True, that. But one of the things that kept the industry going was HT, and several people have mentioned that it is an integral part of the experience of home 'entertainment' (for lack of a better word, i'm not trying to demean the equipment or the approach). So, a necessary 'detour' and perhaps one that isn't so far off the mark. It's actually surprising to see the number of very serious systems that integrate video in some way.

 

[NorthStar]

Have you ever seen Jurasic Park with excellent HT?

-----The audio on those Blu-rays is 'screemingly loud'! ...T-Rex loud!
Fun? Depends of your definition of the word "fun" here.

 

[NorthStar]

That soundtrack is well recorded, and the movie overall is well done.

-----Yes, 'Master and Commander - The Far Side of the World' on Blu-ray is an awesome blast aurally. Very nicely mixed and recorded audio soundtrack; an academy award winning one too.

 

[JackD201]

There's a catch. The young 'uns are watching video like they are listening to music. They download and watch on their PCs, laptops or tablets. Ever wonder why there are these humongous computer screens?

Before a trans-pacific flight I load up my iPad with 4 movies (rented) and a few TV episodes, stick the IEMs in and voila. I haven't used the airlines in-flight system in a couple of years. This is everday behavior for the new generation. I'm not even talking about watching youtube, metacafe, etc. yet. The BD and DVD aisles in big box stores are shrinking pretty darned fast. Then of course there's Netflix.

Entertainment on Demand seems to be what's dominating. If it (quality) sucks now, I believe the bottleneck is in the speed at which one can connect. People with no care for IP rights download 1080p overnight.

No level of government intervention can curb this. The industries will just have to figure out ways to adapt to this new and changing market environment. Finding ways to monetize what's currently "free". THAT is the big question.

 

[Bill Hart]

There's a catch. The young 'uns are watching video like they are listening to music. They download and watch on their PCs, laptops or tablets. Ever wonder why there are these humongous computer screens?

Before a trans-pacific flight I load up my iPad with 4 movies (rented) and a few TV episodes, stick the IEMs in and voila. I haven't used the airlines in-flight system in a couple of years. This is everday behavior for the new generation. I'm not even talking about watching youtube, metacafe, etc. yet. The BD and DVD aisles in big box stores are shrinking pretty darned fast. Then of course there's Netflix.

Entertainment on Demand seems to be what's dominating. If it (quality) sucks now, I believe the bottleneck is in the speed at which one can connect. People with no care for IP rights download 1080p overnight.

No level of government intervention can curb this. The industries will just have to figure out ways to adapt to this new and changing market environment. Finding ways to monetize what's currently "free". THAT is the big question.

I spent quite a bit of my professional career dealing with this, largely from the rights enforcement standpoint, but that's a whole other story and a good one that goes back to the mid-90's insofar as the Internet is concerned.
As to watching movies on something like an iPad, I was surprised by how engaging it is. You look at a relatively small screen and think, how can that compare to 'home theatre'? But, late at night, using a source like Vudu, or Amazon Instant or Netflix, with a modest set of headphones, I can prop myself up in bed, watch a movie or tv series (that's how I watched all the episodes of 'Lost') and it actually is quite involving. When your nose is little more than a foot from the screen, the relative impact changes dramatically.

 

[Gregadd]

-----The audio on those Blu-rays is 'screemingly loud'! ...T-Rex loud!

U have a volume knob,no?

 

[NorthStar]

There's a catch. The young 'uns are watching video like they are listening to music. They download and watch on their PCs, laptops or tablets. Ever wonder why there are these humongous computer screens?

Before a trans-pacific flight I load up my iPad with 4 movies (rented) and a few TV episodes, stick the IEMs in and voila. I haven't used the airlines in-flight system in a couple of years. This is everday behavior for the new generation. I'm not even talking about watching youtube, metacafe, etc. yet. The BD and DVD aisles in big box stores are shrinking pretty darned fast. Then of course there's Netflix.

Entertainment on Demand seems to be what's dominating. If it (quality) sucks now, I believe the bottleneck is in the speed at which one can connect. People with no care for IP rights download 1080p overnight.

No level of government intervention can curb this. The industries will just have to figure out ways to adapt to this new and changing market environment. Finding ways to monetize what's currently "free". THAT is the big question.

And then there is Amazon, selling Blu-ray titles at full high def video (1080p) and full lossless high res audio (DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD; 5.1 and 7.1 surround sound).

...And BestBuy, and Walmart, and Future Shop, and London Drugs, and Magnolia (?), and ... :b

But BlockBuster, MovieGallery, Roger's Video, and all video stores are just very few but all extinct now.
I talked to a lot of industry's insiders, and I look at their inventories (Blu-rays, DVDs, CDs; forget it about SACDs and LPs), and it's going down big time by the minute! And it's a fact!

If you want physical mediums for Movies and Music, and you have a selection or two in mind, you might as well getting it now because tomorrow there is a very probable chance that it won't be there no more.

 

[JackD201]

I spent quite a bit of my professional career dealing with this, largely from the rights enforcement standpoint, but that's a whole other story and a good one that goes back to the mid-90's insofar as the Internet is concerned.
As to watching movies on something like an iPad, I was surprised by how engaging it is. You look at a relatively small screen and think, how can that compare to 'home theatre'? But, late at night, using a source like Vudu, or Amazon Instant or Netflix, with a modest set of headphones, I can prop myself up in bed, watch a movie or tv series (that's how I watched all the episodes of 'Lost') and it actually is quite involving. When your nose is little more than a foot from the screen, the relative impact changes dramatically.

If you think about (I actually compared LOL) Watching on an iPad gives a relatively bigger picture than a 42" display at 10ft.

 

[NorthStar]

'Jurassic Park'

-----The audio on those Blu-rays is 'screemingly loud'! ...T-Rex loud!

U have a volume knob,no?

-----Oh yeah, and a Reference volume level too.

* By the way, there is a 'Jurassic Park 4' comin' too. :b

 

[DaveyF]

So, to try and get back on track...

Are we saying that we agree with KK's theory as to the potential of moving over to the luxury watch/pen/ car business plan or as we generally disagreeing with him? It does seem that most of us are saying that the hobby is dying ( certainly compared to the 'golden years') BUT that there will always be a small contingent of hard core followers who will keep it alive ( at least that's my hope).

 

[JackD201]

I think what most of us are saying is that it's already happened or is happening. Dying? I don't think so. It's fragmenting but not dying IMO.

 

[DaveyF]

I think what most of us are saying is that it's already happened or is happening. Dying? I don't think so. It's fragmenting but not dying IMO.

Jack, I hope you're right. Although I suspect that many a'philes are moving on to other hobbies and interests, and the younger crowd isn't coming in. Fragmenting may be correct, BUT into what pieces?

 

[cjfrbw]

Kessler comes off as an industrial marketing strategist, not an audiophlle. He likes reviewing expensive stuff because he likes expensive stuff and does well being the "expert."

An audiophile by hook or crook will find good sound, even if he has to build it himself. There seems to be a critical difference there. I don't care what happens to the market for high end as long as I am able to improve and enjoy my sound, which is pretty easy these days with the internet.

Rooms and rooms of expensive, exotic audio are really fun to look at and hear, but can you really say the high end is dying when you see all that stuff with every mode of Darwinian permutation and keep a straight face? There sure is a lot more of it than there was 10 years ago and more then than 20.

 

[DaveyF]

Kessler comes off as an industrial marketing strategist, not an audiophlle. He likes reviewing expensive stuff because he likes expensive stuff and does well being the "expert."

.

That description would seem to apply to a number of the 'usual suspects' in the reviewing world.

 

[c1ferrari]

Yes, more young people are listening to music than ever before, BUT not on high-end systems.

mp3 v dsd -- game...set...match

 

[MylesBAstor]

Kessler comes off as an industrial marketing strategist, not an audiophlle. He likes reviewing expensive stuff because he likes expensive stuff and does well being the "expert."

An audiophile by hook or crook will find good sound, even if he has to build it himself. There seems to be a critical difference there. I don't care what happens to the market for high end as long as I am able to improve and enjoy my sound, which is pretty easy these days with the internet.

Rooms and rooms of expensive, exotic audio are really fun to look at and hear, but can you really say the high end is dying when you see all that stuff with every mode of Darwinian permutation and keep a straight face? There sure is a lot more of it than there was 10 years ago and more then than 20.

Ken, as opposed to the vast majority of audio reviewers, was trained as a journalist first, reviewer second.

 

[DaveyF]

Ken, as opposed to the vast majority of audio reviewers, was trained as a journalist first, reviewer second.

Myles, If the vast majority of reviewers weren't trained as a journalist first, what were they trained in?