TechDAS' new record weight/puck

[garylkoh]

my perception has been that clamps, weights, and vacuum hold down approaches seem to affect the 'life' and 'focus' of the music.

is the record being as flat as possible more important than other issues? it a question I don't have a certain answer to. but my guess is 'no' based on my experience.

Exactly right! And the problem is that it is not something that anybody understands completely.

The example I have is that the turntable I've used through various iterations for nearly 25 years is the Roksan Xerses. It even has a removable center spindle so that no part of the turntable touches the album except for the mat. I would have expected that the record wouldn't be held steady enough for speed accuracy, not solid enough to the platter.

Yet, it is the turntable (until I encountered the Air Force One) with the 'life', 'dynamics' and 'rhythm' that I preferred over everything else I've ever heard. Because different listeners have different priorities, there is no one issue that is most important. It depends on the priorities of the owner.

 

[hvbias]

personally I had assumed that vacuum hold down was a superior approach. but then I compared other tt's without it to the Rockport and clearly it was not that simple. every vacuum hold down system has some sort of flexible gasket material which dampens while providing the air seal. this process can deaden the sound compared to other approaches. any approach has trade-offs. most all record weights and clamps also have their limitations. how to hold the record steady for speed accuracy and keep it solid enough to the platter, yet not dampen out information or change the tonality. it is important to not have the record slide and cause smearing or added resonance. then there are record mats, periphery clamps, that can be part of the equation.

my perception has been that clamps, weights, and vacuum hold down approaches seem to affect the 'life' and 'focus' of the music.

is the record being as flat as possible more important than other issues? it a question I don't have a certain answer to. but my guess is 'no' based on my experience.

i'll use the analogy of the grip of your hands on a putter in golf. it is important to have a firm grip but you also need to have a 'feel' for the putter and not grip too firmly to have control. otherwise you will 'stab' at the ball. it's something that must be felt and is not an exact thing. so the record surface and stylus in the groove. when you hear it right it's right. it's a matter of both parts locking in and the music coming forth freely. at least that is my viewpoint.

This is a very good point. For records that didn't need the screw down clamp on my acrylic platter VPI I tended to avoid using the clamp. The already "over damped" sounding acrylic combined with the screw down clamp sometimes made the music even less engaging.

I read a very good post by mosin on this forum that said in his experience the material the record sits on (ie mat) plays one of the biggest differences in sound quality.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I think Mike has nailed it. There is a balance between life and vibration control.

 

[dan31]

The TechDas record weight seems similar to the HRS weight in concept. The HRS weight has their polymer blend as the record surface interface. I wonder if they were influenced when they worked with HRS for the turntable platform?

 

[Gregadd]

My goal was to make the record "one" with the platter.

 

[rockitman]

I think Mike has nailed it. There is a balance between life and vibration control.

Having tried the Stillpoints LP1 on my TechDAS, I found it killed a little too much of the life of the music. I will have to try the lighter TechDAS puck sometime. I would imagine it is optimized for it.

 

[PeterA]

Having tried the Stillpoints LP1 on my TechDAS, I found it killed a little too much of the life of the music. I will have to try the lighter TechDAS puck sometime. I would imagine it is optimized for it.

Christian, have you listened to your TechDAS without the vacuum engaged? I wonder how that would sound with and without the LP1 over the spindle. I've also heard metal mats with no clamp or weight system which have tended to sound "lively", but I think I was hearing a type of distortion, and I did not really like it. This is a complicated topic and one in which personal preferences quickly become paramount.

 

[rockitman]

Christian, have you listened to your TechDAS without the vacuum engaged? I wonder how that would sound with and without the LP1 over the spindle. I've also heard metal mats with no clamp or weight system which have tended to sound "lively", but I think I was hearing a type of distortion, and I did not really like it. This is a complicated topic and one in which personal preferences quickly become paramount.

I haven't and really don't see the reason to. I like flat records as I use an outer ring on the clearaudio, so it follows that if I purchased the AF 1 with vacuum hold, I am going to use it. I have determined that I like the sound better w/o the LP 1, but may try this Texhdas puck as I assume it was carefully voice for this table. I am more focused on my new phono stage and it's breakin...allnic h5000. It's a new and different level of playback going from active cr type phono stage..the pass to a direct coupled transformer based tube stage...the allnic.

 

[Frank750]

I haven't and really don't see the reason to. I like flat records as I use an outer ring on the clearaudio, so it follows that if I purchased the AF 1 with vacuum hold, I am going to use it. I have determined that I like the sound better w/o the LP 1, but may try this Texhdas puck as I assume it was carefully voice for this table. I am more focused on my new phono stage and it's breakin...allnic h5000. It's a new and different level of playback going from active cr type phono stage..the pass to a direct coupled transformer based tube stage...the allnic.

Initial thoughts on the Allnic?

 

[rockitman]

Initial thoughts on the Allnic?

It's a different level of listening. Transformer based gain versus active resistor gain are two different animals. I still have considerable breakin to go. I like the way the music flows better than with my XP-25. It is more rich, dynamic and extended. That said, the deep bass has a bit looser focus than the solid state XP-25. I am hoping it will tighten a bit more with full breakin. As they say, I may lose something in one area but gain a lot in the other area's.

 

[audioarcher]

It's a different level of listening. Transformer based gain versus active resistor gain are two different animals. I still have considerable breakin to go. I like the way the music flows better than with my XP-25. It is more rich, dynamic and extended. That said, the deep bass has a bit looser focus than the solid state XP-25. I am hoping it will tighten a bit more with full breakin. As they say, I may lose something in one area but gain a lot in the other area's.

Hi Christian, If the H5000 uses the same rectifier tube as the H3000 then changing out the stock rectifier will be one of the first things you should consider. Since Albert Porter also has the H5000 now I would ask him his opinion on the subject.

 

[rockitman]

Hi Christian, If the H5000 uses the same rectifier tube as the H3000 then changing out the stock rectifier will be one of the first things you should consider. Since Albert Porter also has the H5000 now I would ask him his opinion on the subject.

since the manual is not out yet, I'm not sure it uses that tube. The power supply is completely different.

 

[XV-1]

It's a different level of listening. Transformer based gain versus active resistor gain are two different animals. I still have considerable breakin to go. I like the way the music flows better than with my XP-25. It is more rich, dynamic and extended. That said, the deep bass has a bit looser focus than the solid state XP-25. I am hoping it will tighten a bit more with full breakin. As they say, I may lose something in one area but gain a lot in the other area's.

Nah, I think you have it nailed the differences already

That is why it is good to have both tube and ss phono stage to mix and match. My Lyra Atlas loves my tube phono and dyna xv-1s is a bit happier with the xp-25.

 

[audioarcher]

since the manual is not out yet, I'm not sure it uses that tube. The power supply is completely different.

Gotcha. Thats why I suggested asking Albert. He has lots of experience rolling tubes and has had both units. Could be he has not messed with it yet but who knows.

The rectifier will effect bass quality. You will not likely equal the XP-25 in that regard but it can be bettered in all likelihood.

 

[dafos]

View attachment 12256

So is it a screw down clamp or it just fits over the spindle?

 

[rockitman]

Nah, I think you have it nailed the differences already

That is why it is good to have both tube and ss phono stage to mix and match. My Lyra Atlas loves my tube phono and dyna xv-1s is a bit happier with the xp-25.

I plan on keeping the xp 25. 4 arms to manage between two tables. I have to say though, I don't see it getting much use based on the musical involvement I'm getting from the Allnic.

 

[rockitman]

So is it a screw down clamp or it just fits over the spindle?

It is not screw down. That would be kind of unnecessary for a vacuum hold down platter. It just slips over the spindle.

 

[Frank750]

I plan on keeping the xp 25. 4 arms to manage between two tables. I have to say though, I don't see it getting much use based on the musical involvement I'm getting from the Allnic.

I hope so at 3x the price!

 

[Frank750]

I plan on keeping the xp 25. 4 arms to manage between two tables. I have to say though, I don't see it getting much use based on the musical involvement I'm getting from the Allnic.

Christian,

Any updates regarding the Allnic? Comparisons to the XP25? I'm back in the market for a new phono pre again although right now I'm thinking I'll just wait for the Pass Xs phono.

 

[rockitman]

Christian,

Any updates regarding the Allnic? Comparisons to the XP25? I'm back in the market for a new phono pre again although right now I'm thinking I'll just wait for the Pass Xs phono.

This tube beast is a different animal from the XP-25. It is more holographic (tubes), the timbre seems more real...meaning instruments and voices sound like they should, not to say the Pass is problematic in this area. The entire musical presentation just sounds more real/live than through the XP-25. The bass while seemingly more extended via the Allnic, it is a bit softer in focus. This is what I am hearing through the LCR network/transformer. I have also ordered the Allnic HA-3000 nuvistor tube head amp to run through the moving magnet 47K input. I have been told that the bass will tighten more, the sound will be more transparent and the sound stage will grow even more than it is now. Today my Nordost Odin cabling arrives, so I expect more changes in the musical presentation.