Sonus Faber Aida

[DaveyF]

Davey,
Quads are still a reference for tonal balance and love tube amplifiers - my greatest experience with them was using OTLs. If operated within their limitations they can sound great, but they can not play with safety rock or any type of music that asks for large dynamics or deep bass. In these later aspects, added to those related to scale, impact and the feeling of being there the Aida's play in different championship.

Micro, all that you say about Quads is very true. OTOH, I wonder what they would sound like if mated with the likes of a REL T5 or similar sub. That might be a very worthwhile pairing. I suspect a great second system might consist of ARC SP10Mk2, ARC D70Mk2, stacked original Quads or ESL 9805's, REL T5 and some kind of a SOTA TT. Could be a VERY tough system to beat for not a lot of money...

 

[A.wayne]

Micro, isn't it amazing after all these years that we can still compare a SOTA speaker against Quads ( of any vintage) to see how it compares. Peter Walker really hit one out of the park with his original speakers. I sometimes think that one could buy a pair of Quads and call it a day. Perhaps one of these days, i might do this for a second system. I still have VERY fond memories of the first time I heard a pair of stacked original Quads hooked up to a tube amp ( cannot remember the particular amp), but it still stays with me to this day as one of the best reproduced sounds I have ever heard in this hobby.

+10

I have a close friend with both single and stacked 57's , refurbished and both are fantastic sounding and man what levels he can get them to ...

 

[A.wayne]

Davey,
Quads are still a reference for tonal balance and love tube amplifiers - my greatest experience with them was using OTLs. If operated within their limitations they can sound great, but they can not play with safety rock or any type of music that asks for large dynamics or deep bass. In these later aspects, added to those related to scale, impact and the feeling of being there the Aida's play in different championship.

This is not true of newly refurbished Quads Micro , it gives up nothing in the drive department ...

 

[Bill Hart]

I heard the Aida in the Spring when it was being set up for the New York audio show at the dealers in a heavily treated room. (The room was a little too dead sounding for me FWIW). It was coupled with an ARC Reference system, my recollection was it was Ref 150 amps, the Anniversary line stage and an ARC CD player (I don't know the model). I had the room to myself. What I heard was a big, warm, romantic, very open and extended high frequency and amazing full sized bass presentation of great scale. Yet, (and this may simply be my own listening bias based on horns and SETs), the system still sounded like hi-fi- big, glorious, lush and beautiful, but it didn't have the 'in the room' quality that I enjoy. In other words, it had a quality that was still confined to an area between the cabinets, although the boundaries, in terms of image, frequency range and front to back 'sound-staging', were seemingly unrestricted. I'm not dissing the speaker or the rest of the set-up, perhaps it is where my ears are at these days, and a very personal choice at that- but there is an immediacy to the horns that is quite real sometimes on the right material. (I know that there are a lot of drawbacks in terms of how they can squawk, integration problems with woofers, equipment matching, etc.) And my system certainly cannot duplicate the scale and full-bodied quality in the bass that the SF-ARC system presented in that room - but there was this lack of immediacy that still told me i was hearing a reproduction, not a real instrument. And to further caveat my remarks, I'm not suggesting that I get the level of verisimilitude consistently with the horns- it is quite dependent on program material. The recording we listened to was the Shelby Lynne 'Just a Little Lovin' album, which is quite the 'audiophile spectacular' studio recording-one that sounds far better than most studio recordings, although it may not be a 'natural' sounding record.
I still plan to get a double Quad system set up at some point once i get my old Quads restored, and still have my Crosby Quads as well, although I haven't listened to them in quite a while.

 

[microstrip]

This is not true of newly refurbished Quads Micro , it gives up nothing in the drive department ...

What type of refurbishing are you referring to? Even the huge SoundLabs with their high-tech stators and doped Mylar diaphragm can not compete with Aida's in drive. I have listened to a friend's pair driven by DartZeel NH458 and at the levels we listened to the Crime of the Century the Quad's would fly ...

 

[microstrip]

I heard the Aida in the Spring when it was being set up for the New York audio show at the dealers in a heavily treated room. (The room was a little too dead sounding for me FWIW). It was coupled with an ARC Reference system, my recollection was it was Ref 150 amps, the Anniversary line stage and an ARC CD player (I don't know the model). (...)

It seems that you listened to the Aida in the worst conditions. As soon as the Aidas's entered my room, I had to take most of the acoustical treatment in my room. Otherwise they sounded as you refer - lifeless. And although many of us do not believe in the differences caused by cables, the next change was the whole cabling. Currently they have an immediacy similar to the best I get with the Quads or SoundLabs - not an easy achievement.

 

[LL21]

It seems that you listened to the Aida in the worst conditions. As soon as the Aidas's entered my room, I had to take most of the acoustical treatment in my room. Otherwise they sounded as you refer - lifeless. And although many of us do not believe in the differences caused by cables, the next change was the whole cabling. Currently they have an immediacy similar to the best I get with the Quads or SoundLabs - not an easy achievement.

Hey Microstrip...interesting read. i anticipate hearing your speakers shortly. Which cables do you prefer with them?

 

[Tonepub]

I've got a pair of newly refurbed Quads from Quads Unlimited and sorry, they still don't rock. Wonderful speakers, but not huge in the dynamics department. I agree with Micro on the Aida, they do everything I could want from an ESL in the immediacy and coherence department along with huge scale. Bill from Sumiko told me that the room in NY (where I heard that system as well) was a tough one to get the proper setup done.

As a HUGE ESL fan, I have to say I'm incredibly pleased with the Aidas.

But, don't want to give too much away on the review, which will be in our December issue....

 

[Bill Hart]

I've got a pair of newly refurbed Quads from Quads Unlimited and sorry, they still don't rock. Wonderful speakers, but not huge in the dynamics department. I agree with Micro on the Aida, they do everything I could want from an ESL in the immediacy and coherence department along with huge scale. Bill from Sumiko told me that the room in NY (where I heard that system as well) was a tough one to get the proper setup done.

As a HUGE ESL fan, I have to say I'm incredibly pleased with the Aidas.

But, don't want to give too much away on the review, which will be in our December issue....

Well, I'm glad I mentioned the room. You could 'sense' it when you walked in, that sort of overdamped quality that makes me claustrophobic. I'm glad to know that the speaker can perform better than I heard it, and it certainly didn't perform badly, by any means- all the tone, bandwidth, dynamics and coherence, for lack of a better word, were there, it did sound 'dead' and lifeless though, which could well have been the room.

 

[Bill Hart]

It seems that you listened to the Aida in the worst conditions. As soon as the Aidas's entered my room, I had to take most of the acoustical treatment in my room. Otherwise they sounded as you refer - lifeless. And although many of us do not believe in the differences caused by cables, the next change was the whole cabling. Currently they have an immediacy similar to the best I get with the Quads or SoundLabs - not an easy achievement.

Micro, see my comment to Jeff's post which i really meant as a reply to yours, but it covers both of your posts. Glad to know that the speaker can be more lively, and glad i mentioned the room, though I didn't appreciate how much of a contributing factor that was, though I should have. I'm a nut for coherent open midrange, which is why I lived with Quads for so long. Just couldn't handle the lack of real dynamics and the absence of full bandwidth. Adding a woofer and ribbon back in the day to the 57 enhanced it but didn't really undo its inherent limitations, which is why i switched to the Crosby Quad back in 1990 or so. I always thought the 57's midrange was more coherent than the '63.

 

[microstrip]

Hey Microstrip...interesting read. i anticipate hearing your speakers shortly. Which cables do you prefer with them?

The best I listened with them were the Odin. But although I am a "cable believer" they are outside my range of prices for cables. A good friend has Opus with the DartZeel NH458 with great success. I recently got a pair of used Kubala Sosna Elations for a nice price and it is what I am using now. Some people from Germany advised me to try the Valhalla's, but I am waiting for the Vahalla' 2 - but they were not yet announced, although Nordost have replaced all the other lower price ranges.

 

[Bill Hart]

The best I listened with them were the Odin. But although I am a "cable believer" they are outside my range of prices for cables. A good friend has Opus with the DartZeel NH458 with great success. I recently got a pair of used Kubala Sosna Elations for a nice price and it is what I am using now. Some people from Germany advised me to try the Valhalla's, but I am waiting for the Vahalla' 2 - but they were not yet announced, although Nordost have replaced all the other lower price ranges.

The K-S has proved very synergistic in my system, which is quite different, though, and works to bring out the best attributes of the horns without the downsides. (Maybe you could say they tame them, and that's a coloration, but I've had great success with them.) Joe Kubala is a very good guy (whose has heard my system a few times) and i have enormous respect for their products. I recently upgraded to the the Elation for the run from the phono stage to the line stage and it is singing (the rest of the system, including the power cords, is the Emotion). Whether the K-S is the optimal cable for your set up is another question.

 

[LL21]

The best I listened with them were the Odin. But although I am a "cable believer" they are outside my range of prices for cables. A good friend has Opus with the DartZeel NH458 with great success. I recently got a pair of used Kubala Sosna Elations for a nice price and it is what I am using now. Some people from Germany advised me to try the Valhalla's, but I am waiting for the Vahalla' 2 - but they were not yet announced, although Nordost have replaced all the other lower price ranges.

Thanks for that...i have found differences to be great in cables. I run TA XL and just got MM2 SCs (cashless upgrade thru trade in of my last bits of old stuff)...and love them. Between CJ, Gryphon, TA and Wilson, it seems many of these manufacturers use stuff from each other, which i largely found out only afterwards. I have heard great things about the mighty Odin...and in particularly many have found Nordost and SF's latest generation speakers to work incredibly well together.

Enjoy!

 

[DaveyF]

Thanks for that...i have found differences to be great in cables. I run TA XL and just got MM2 SCs (cashless upgrade thru trade in of my last bits of old stuff)...and love them. Between CJ, Gryphon, TA and Wilson, it seems many of these manufacturers use stuff from each other, which i largely found out only afterwards. I have heard great things about the mighty Odin...and in particularly many have found Nordost and SF's latest generation speakers to work incredibly well together.

Enjoy!

That's very true Lloyd. OTOH, my SFGH's just come alive with the Nordost's. I'm currently using Frey speaker cable and Tyr ic's and the improvement across the board is amazing. I'm waiting on a Tyr phono cable, which I'm hoping will be the finishing touch.
BTW, I did have a chance to hear the Odin's in a fellow a'philes system. While these cables are priced in the stratosphere, I could hear why they were...
Would love to do an AB in my system between Odin and Tyr, only problem is that IF Odin trounced Tyr, I might be in BIG trouble with the missus.

 

[LL21]

That's very true Lloyd. OTOH, my SFGH's just come alive with the Nordost's. I'm currently using Frey speaker cable and Tyr ic's and the improvement across the board is amazing. I'm waiting on a Tyr phono cable, which I'm hoping will be the finishing touch.
BTW, I did have a chance to hear the Odin's in a fellow a'philes system. While these cables are priced in the stratosphere, I could hear why they were...
Would love to do an AB in my system between Odin and Tyr, only problem is that IF Odin trounced Tyr, I might be in BIG trouble with the missus.

Your Odin to my Zanden Transport!

 

[microstrip]

Just to remember that some people say that the TIR2 is a large improvement over the TYR, and is affecting the sales of the Valhalla.

 

[microstrip]

The K-S has proved very synergistic in my system, which is quite different, though, and works to bring out the best attributes of the horns without the downsides. (Maybe you could say they tame them, and that's a coloration, but I've had great success with them.) Joe Kubala is a very good guy (whose has heard my system a few times) and i have enormous respect for their products. I recently upgraded to the the Elation for the run from the phono stage to the line stage and it is singing (the rest of the system, including the power cords, is the Emotion). Whether the K-S is the optimal cable for your set up is another question.

Thanks.Next week I will try the KS Elation speaker and source to preamplifier and a 6m XLR Emotion - similar to your system. Still have not tried their power cords.

 

[Bill Hart]

Micro, all that you say about Quads is very true. OTOH, I wonder what they would sound like if mated with the likes of a REL T5 or similar sub. That might be a very worthwhile pairing. I suspect a great second system might consist of ARC SP10Mk2, ARC D70Mk2, stacked original Quads or ESL 9805's, REL T5 and some kind of a SOTA TT. Could be a VERY tough system to beat for not a lot of money...

I had a variation of this system: ARC SP-10mk II, D 70mkii and 57's with a sub and ribbons. I also fooled around with derived rear channels on a delay. I used an SP 10 (mk1) turntable, then switched to a Well-Tempered TT/Arm. This was in the late 80's.

 

[DaveyF]

whart, that old system you had must have sounded pretty fine. How do you think it compares to your current set up?

 

[Bill Hart]

whart, that old system you had must have sounded pretty fine. How do you think it compares to your current set up?

Davey, you are asking me to remember what a system from 25 years ago sounded like, but I can try to do it, recognizing that this is filtered not only through my own listening biases but through the rosy glow of memory:
On the old Quad '57' system:
Midrange was just 'there'- natural, unconstrained, human voice was entirely without artifact, except what the recording brought to it, string tone marvelous, horns great within the limits of the system's ability to go loud (some dynamic constriction) and scale- (image size constriction); orchestra worked only in miniature, for both of those reasons, but fine as far as it went. With a sub, there was always discontinuity; I didn't crossover the Quads, I just ran the sub in tandem, because I didn't want the Quads to be filtered through a crossover; the ribbons added air and didn't really bother me as much as the woofer. Adding the rear channels was a hit or miss affair, on some recordings it worked, on others it didn't. When it worked, as the late, great Chuck Lamonica said, when he heard it (a great, characterful, sweet guy who was very much part of the NY audio community who sadly passed away back in around 1991), 'you could kiss every note.'
Compared to what i am running today:
the midrange is just as coherent and unconstrained, at far greater equipment cost, compared to that old system- so that makes the old system crazy good for the money; these days, i have dynamics and an effortlessness with the horns that is much closer to real music on any program material beyond simple human voice and basic instruments (even a small combo, especially horns and drums, can really tax a system); I still have bass integration issues (although better with the latest line stage and phono stage and cabling, but at a cost for those components alone that exceeds by far, the cost of the old system).

The punchline: I could easily live with a Quad 57-based system with the right associated equipment. And whether the current rig I am running is really worth the X factor in cost is probably debatable. I think anybody listening to the two side by side would probably say the current system gets their vote. And, there's probably less 'murk' in the current system, owing to improvements in phono playback and electronics, but even that may be less pronounced than I'm imagining, sitting here thinking about it 25 years later- the Quads weren't a model of efficiency and the noise floor was different than working with 104db horns, so it is essential that I get the 'muck' out of the current system for me to live with it. The Quads probably filtered that stuff, partly through (in)efficiency and restricted bandwidth.
I think that's a fair summary.