Pass Labs .8 Series!

[Bruce B]

Bruce, I think you wrote upthread somewhere that you are holding out for the XS series. Have you heard those in your system yet, or directly compared them to either the .8 or the .5 in the same system? If so, I'd be very interested in your

I have heard each of these separately, but not as a side by side comparison. To me, in the systems I heard, I felt the XS amps were more to my liking. Honestly, I don't think I even heard a difference between the .5 and .8 except in the bass, though my aural memory isn't the best over a few days and different systems.
To me, the XS pre would be a harder pill to swallow. I have not had the opportunity to listen to one yet. If I did anything, I'd keep the XP-30 and go with the XS amps. I didn't feel the tonal character of the bass changed with the XS as it did with the .8

 

[Howard]

I have heard each of these separately, but not as a side by side comparison. To me, in the systems I heard, I felt the XS amps were more to my liking. Honestly, I don't think I even heard a difference between the .5 and .8 except in the bass, though my aural memory isn't the best over a few days and different systems.
To me, the XS pre would be a harder pill to swallow. I have not had the opportunity to listen to one yet. If I did anything, I'd keep the XP-30 and go with the XS amps. I didn't feel the tonal character of the bass changed with the XS as it did with the .8

What speakers were in the system you heard the Point 8s in? Were they well out from the front and side walls? In my system the bass was somewhat muddy until I pulled the speakers well out into the room.

 

[PeterA]

I have heard each of these separately, but not as a side by side comparison. To me, in the systems I heard, I felt the XS amps were more to my liking. Honestly, I don't think I even heard a difference between the .5 and .8 except in the bass, though my aural memory isn't the best over a few days and different systems.
To me, the XS pre would be a harder pill to swallow. I have not had the opportunity to listen to one yet. If I did anything, I'd keep the XP-30 and go with the XS amps. I didn't feel the tonal character of the bass changed with the XS as it did with the .8

Bruce, what did you like about the XS amps relative to the .5 and .8 and how did the tonal character of the bass change with the .8? Could the differences you heard in these various systems be attributed to something other than the various Pass amps, like the rooms or cables, for instance?

 

[microstrip]

That is one or two person's opinion. Peter, you are one owner and "NOT" a reviewer! The Audio Shark opinions, and one "in store" bogus comparison are nonsense.

Not a large sample, and no professional formal reviews of the point 8 as of yet. It is way too early to tell. All "new" high end products get initial "rave" reviews, that, after years, do not hold up. The "fanboys" always exaggerate the differences and ignore the flaws!

The midrange "made" the Aleph, and they got consistent great reviews, and owner opinion, as did the XA.5 series, not so with the XA series.

Don C,

I was going to answer to this message, started a post, but unfortunately by the time I finished it I was logged-off and lost its content. However I now feel I should re-type it.

The great think about WBF (and other foruns) it that we can have the independent opinions of our members - owners and not owners - that we know since long, as they have been presenting us with many opinions about many topics in sound reproduction. They expose their findings, their feelings and the conditions in which they carried their experiences, and all members benefit from their large and trusty experience. Surely each of us weight their opinions against our experience and previous history.

This to say I find your style inadequate and even rude to the members of this forum (and others). Why are you coming here if you feel you can not learn from them? If you prefer "professional reviews" please wait for them. But please remember that Madfloyd and PeterA are respected members of this forum and we appreciate their contributions.

 

[MadFloyd]

I have heard each of these separately, but not as a side by side comparison. To me, in the systems I heard, I felt the XS amps were more to my liking. Honestly, I don't think I even heard a difference between the .5 and .8 except in the bass, though my aural memory isn't the best over a few days and different systems.
To me, the XS pre would be a harder pill to swallow. I have not had the opportunity to listen to one yet. If I did anything, I'd keep the XP-30 and go with the XS amps. I didn't feel the tonal character of the bass changed with the XS as it did with the .8

I didn't realize you had heard the .8's. When I was initially taken aback by the amount of bass energy present in the .8's I toyed with the idea of immediately upgrading to the XS-150's. So I told Pass what my findings were with the .8's and asked whether the XS-150's had the same amount of bass energy and I was told that the tonal balance of the .8's were much closer to the XS than the .5's.

They did say the XA60.8's did NOT have as much bass energy as other .8 models and suggested that as an alternative if I was seeking less bass.

 

[Bruce B]

What speakers were in the system you heard the Point 8s in? Were they well out from the front and side walls? In my system the bass was somewhat muddy until I pulled the speakers well out into the room.

Bruce, what did you like about the XS amps relative to the .5 and .8 and how did the tonal character of the bass change with the .8? Could the differences you heard in these various systems be attributed to something other than the various Pass amps, like the rooms or cables, for instance?

The speakers were Avalon ISIS (XS) and Wilson MAXX3 (.8). I know one room pretty well as I've been over to his place a few times. I heard the .8's and the XS on different days. Yes, the differences could very well be attributed to the rooms/ancillary equip...etc. One room does have the XP-30 pre though and I do know that well. The other room I took my XP-30 over there the day before and let it acclimate 24hr. Both systems were using Transparent Ref XL.

I felt the .8 changed the character of the bass further from my .5 and the XS. I thought the .5 and XS shared more characteristics than with the .8, but like I said, I'd have to get them side by side in a known reference to make a definitive opinion.

 

[Frank750]

Don C,

I was going to answer to this message, started a post, but unfortunately by the time I finished it I was logged-off and lost its content. However I now feel I should re-type it.

The great think about WBF (and other foruns) it that we can have the independent opinions of our members - owners and not owners - that we know since long, as they have been presenting us with many opinions about many topics in sound reproduction. They expose their findings, their feelings and the conditions in which they carried their experiences, and all members benefit from their large and trusty experience. Surely each of us weight their opinions against our experience and previous history.

This to say I find your style inadequate and even rude to the members of this forum (and others). Why are you coming here if you feel you can not learn from them? If you prefer "professional reviews" please wait for them. But please remember that Madfloyd and PeterA are respected members of this forum and we appreciate their contributions.

Well said Francisco. My feelings exactly.

 

[ack]

Don C,

I was going to answer to this message, started a post, but unfortunately by the time I finished it I was logged-off and lost its content. However I now feel I should re-type it.

The great think about WBF (and other foruns) it that we can have the independent opinions of our members - owners and not owners - that we know since long, as they have been presenting us with many opinions about many topics in sound reproduction. They expose their findings, their feelings and the conditions in which they carried their experiences, and all members benefit from their large and trusty experience. Surely each of us weight their opinions against our experience and previous history.

This to say I find your style inadequate and even rude to the members of this forum (and others). Why are you coming here if you feel you can not learn from them? If you prefer "professional reviews" please wait for them. But please remember that Madfloyd and PeterA are respected members of this forum and we appreciate their contributions.

+1 - remember, it's WBF, not WTF

 

[Howard]

I'm breaking in my second pair of XA160.8s. The bass is a bit out of whack during the break-in but it calms down nicely after a couple of hundred hours. At that point they are not bass shy by any means but it''s not overly exaggerated either IMO. Of course, that's with my sealed box Magicos pulled well out from the front and side walls. YMMV.

 

[MadFloyd]

I'm breaking in my second pair of XA160.8s. The bass is a bit out of whack during the break-in but it calms down nicely after a couple of hundred hours. At that point they are not bass shy by any means but it''s not overly exaggerated either IMO. Of course, that's with my sealed box Magicos pulled well out from the front and side walls. YMMV.

Second pair? Did you have your first pair replaced?

 

[Howard]

Second pair? Did you have your first pair replaced?

Yeah - at just about one month in one of the amps malfunctioned. Pass Labs and Mark at Reno HiFi were really good about it -- sent out a replacement pair immediately.

 

[rbbert]

Not so. The .8 chart shows 375 watts for the XA60.8. No chart for the XA.5 series anymore, but the X250.5 draws 200, and the manual for the XA60.5 likewise shows 200.

Edit; apparently there are two charts for the XA.8 series. One shows 200 watts drawn, one shows 375 watts consumed, each for the XA60.8.

Sometimes there is a lack of common sense on this Forum (and obviously I'm also guilty). We don't really know what these figures mean for either amp, but for sure they each potentially draw more than 200 watts because their maximum power output is over 250 watts. So 375 watts is a more reasonable figure for either the 60.5 or the 60.8, and even that implies much better than 50% efficiency (which is possible).

 

[scb]

Sometimes there is a lack of common sense on this Forum (and obviously I'm also guilty). We don't really know what these figures mean for either amp, but for sure they each potentially draw more than 200 watts because their maximum power output is over 250 watts. So 375 watts is a more reasonable figure for either the 60.5 or the 60.8, and even that implies much better than 50% efficiency (which is possible).

Mark @ Reno Hi Fi and Pass told me separately that the xa60.8 draw 200w each at idle

 

[rbbert]

Mark @ Reno Hi Fi and Pass told me separately that the xa60.8 draw 200w each at idle

Assuming that Pass Labs isn't making things up, I suspect both the 60.8 and the 60.5 draw 200w at idle and 375w at maximum output.

 

[Avidlistener]

I'm thinking of getting the X150.8 to drive TAD CR1's in a fairly good sized room. The preamp it will be paired with is the Atma-sphere Mp1 balanced tube preamp. I don't generally play that loud, but there are times I do. Any opinions? I won't be able to arrange a home demo as my dealer doesn't stock the unit, and even if I could demo it, it would be on a totally different system, so I don't feel it will inform me much.

 

[Alpinist]

Hi Avidlistener,

I would think the X-150.8 would have more than ample power to drive the TAD CR1's to a high volume. Pass amps actual power output before clipping usually materially exceeds what they list in their specifications. But the best way to make sure is to demo the amp in your own system. I would recommend calling Mark at Reno Hi Fi. He is a great person to do business with and offers terrific deals on new, demo and used Pass components. He can arrange a 10-day in home demo on the X-150.8. If you don't like the amp after 10 days, you are only out the cost of return shipping. I purchased my XP-30 and XA-100.8 from Mark and I am a satisfied customer.

P.S. - I have no affiliation with Pass Labs or Reno Hi Fi.

Best,
Ken

 

[Alpinist]

Assuming that Pass Labs isn't making things up, I suspect both the 60.8 and the 60.5 draw 200w at idle and 375w at maximum output.

Hi Rbbert,

I checked with Pass Labs since I was curious myself for my 100.8's. The 60.5's consume 200 watts per amp as long as they are operating in Class A mode. The 60.8's consume 375 watts per amp as long as they are operating in Class A mode. The 60.8's consume more power than the 60.5's because they are more heavily biased into Class A and therefore less efficient, consuming more power to produce the same output power in watts.

Best,
Ken

 

[Don C]

Hi Rbbert,

I checked with Pass Labs since I was curious myself for my 100.8's. The 60.5's consume 200 watts per amp as long as they are operating in Class A mode. The 60.8's consume 375 watts per amp as long as they are operating in Class A mode. The 60.8's consume more power than the 60.5's because they are more heavily biased into Class A and therefore less efficient, consuming more power to produce the same output power in watts.

Best,
Ken

375 watts per mono block, at idle, is too much heat and electricity for me. I will stick with my 60.5's. I like to keep the power amps running for days, with no wait time for warmup.

 

[LL21]

375 watts per mono block, at idle, is too much heat and electricity for me. I will stick with my 60.5's. I like to keep the power amps running for days, with no wait time for warmup.

800 watts idle here...yeesh. But I love the sound...

 

[Alpinist]

375 watts per mono block, at idle, is too much heat and electricity for me. I will stick with my 60.5's. I like to keep the power amps running for days, with no wait time for warmup.

Hi Don,

It sounds like a logical decision to keep the 60.5's. The 60.8's consume/produce almost twice as much power/heat at 750 watts vs. 400 watts for the 60.5's. This will enable you to continue to keep your amps on constantly. In my case, I was never able to leave my 100.5's on constantly due to power consumption and heat produced, so nothing has really changed with the 100.8's. I usually warm them up for about an hour before I start listening and turn them immediately off when I'm done. The difference between the 100.8's and 100.5's is 900 watts and 600 watts, respectively.

Best,
Ken