Pass Labs .8 Series!

[Don C]

I've read reports on AudioShark and WBF and it seems that people do prefer the new .8 over the .5. I have directly compared the XA160.5 to the XA160.8. The .8 is considerably better. Perhaps not a "huge jump" as you write, but a huge improvement in sound quality at this level is extremely rare, given the modest price increase. I have written elsewhere that I think for a new buyer, it would be worth paying the additional 20-25% for the .8. The .8 is cleaner sounding with added overall clarity and better spacial information and drive/control in the bass. Given the price difference between a used .5 and a new .8, the cost to upgrade from one to the other presents a different value calculation. Some will find it worth the price difference and others may not.

I upgraded from the Aleph 2 to the original XA160. The XA160 was considerably better. It had a lower noise floor and much better control of the lower frequencies. It also had a better overall balance while the Aleph was only really superb in the midrange as I remember. You can read a review I wrote on the XA100.5 which describes in some detail what my impressions were between the Aleph 3, 5, 2, and XA160 to the XA100.5. It is under the review section on WBF.

That is one or two person's opinion. Peter, you are one owner and "NOT" a reviewer! The Audio Shark opinions, and one "in store" bogus comparison are nonsense.

Not a large sample, and no professional formal reviews of the point 8 as of yet. It is way too early to tell. All "new" high end products get initial "rave" reviews, that, after years, do not hold up. The "fanboys" always exaggerate the differences and ignore the flaws!

The midrange "made" the Aleph, and they got consistent great reviews, and owner opinion, as did the XA.5 series, not so with the XA series.

 

[Don C]

Also Pass Labs claims lower noise floor on the point 8 vs the point 5 but they both spec 200 microvolts output noise. How can the point 8 be quieter???? Power of suggestion?

 

[rbbert]

weighting?

 

[MadFloyd]

The specifications come from the Pass Labs site. Point8_specs.pdf in the manuals section (XA60.8) - comparison chart (pdf down load).

Look again, Don. The comparison chart lists both the XA60.5 and XA60.8 as drawing 200 watts. I just checked.

 

[ack]

That is one or two person's opinion. Peter, you are one owner and "NOT" a reviewer!

Not a large sample, and no professional formal reviews of the point 8 as of yet. It is way too early to tell. All "new" high end products get initial "rave" reviews, that, after years, do not hold up. The "fanboys" always exaggerate the differences and ignore the flaws!

The midrange "made" the Aleph, and they got consistent great reviews, and owner opinion, as did the XA.5 series, not so with the XA series.

I suggest you search for and read the extensive comments people here have made on the .8 vs .5 series, in various threads; search for user MadFloyd - at the very least, I hope you find them enlightening

 

[rbbert]

Look again, Don. The comparison chart lists both the XA60.5 and XA60.8 as drawing 200 watts. I just checked.

Not so. The .8 chart shows 375 watts for the XA60.8. No chart for the XA.5 series anymore, but the X250.5 draws 200, and the manual for the XA60.5 likewise shows 200.

Edit; apparently there are two charts for the XA.8 series. One shows 200 watts drawn, one shows 375 watts consumed, each for the XA60.8.

 

[PeterA]

That is one or two person's opinion. Peter, you are one owner and "NOT" a reviewer! The Audio Shark opinions, and one "in store" bogus comparison are nonsense.

Not a large sample, and no professional formal reviews of the point 8 as of yet. It is way too early to tell. All "new" high end products get initial "rave" reviews, that, after years, do not hold up. The "fanboys" always exaggerate the differences and ignore the flaws!

The midrange "made" the Aleph, and they got consistent great reviews, and owner opinion, as did the XA.5 series, not so with the XA series.

Don, I have never claimed to be a reviewer. I just wrote what I consider to be a "user" review of the XA100.5 as it is in the owner/member "review" sections of Audiogon and WBF. It did also appear for two years on the official Pass Labs Review section on their website. They agreed with my observations.

You should follow Ack's suggestion and find comments on the web from people who have heard the .8 amps. There are quite a few owners who have compared the .5 to the .8 now. Yes, the .8 has not been formally reviewed, but if an owner of the .5 auditions the .8 in his system, that tends to be a pretty good source for an opinion, IMO. And I agree that the midrange defined the Aleph series, as I alluded to in my review and in an earlier post. The XA just extended the highs and lows but retained the incredible midrange. The Aleph remains a great amp and value, if you can find one. The XA.5 and .8 are better though, at a higher price.

I own a .5 and am not jumping to upgrade to the .8 because of the cost. That does not mean the .8 is not better though. I predict that a "formal" review will confirm the superiority of the .8.

 

[Don C]

I suggest you search for and read the extensive comments people here have made on the .8 vs .5 series, in various threads; search for user MadFloyd - at the very least, I hope you find them enlightening

All I read are Peter's and Madfloyd's opinions. That is NOT extensive!

Madfloyd's testing has been a "circus".

Too many changes of power cables and speaker cables. And "one night" A/B testing with the amps not " powered on" for 2 days to reach the optimal sound. If you shut down the amp the "clock" starts over for optimal sound quality as per Nelson Pass.

Also Madfloyd has medical hearing issues preventing him from hearing and detecting sound quality!

His testing is a joke!

The verdict on the point 8 is not in yet IMO.

 

[scb]

My xa60.8s are awesome. I don't care if you tell me my opinion doesn't matter

 

[rockitman]

The verdict on the point 8 is not in yet IMO.

so I suppose you feel Pass would introduce a new model ".8" and it would be inferior to ".5" ? That is some solid logic there.

 

[Bruce B]

so I suppose you feel Pass would introduce a new model ".8" and it would be inferior to ".5" ? That is some solid logic there.

I wouldn't say it's inferior, but just a different sound that might not please everyone.

 

[rockitman]

I wouldn't say it's inferior, but just a different sound that might not please everyone.

I can understand that. Have you heard both yet ? If so, what are your impressions ?

 

[still-one]

so I suppose you feel Pass would introduce a new model ".8" and it would be inferior to ".5" ? That is some solid logic there.

Christian
Of course! Isn't audio the only technology that hasn't improved over the past 30-40 years. Cars, planes, computers, video, phones, etc get better.

 

[Bruce B]

I can understand that. Have you heard both yet ? If so, what are your impressions ?

No, I have not heard both the .8 and .5 side by side in the same system. Would love the opportunity though!

 

[Howard]

Well yeah they use more electricity - they are capable of *much* higher current output. In the case of the XA60.5 vs XA60.8, it's 20 amps vs 30 amps max output. That's huge. And that's how the Point 8s sound - huge!

FWIW, my XA160.8s don't seem to run any hotter than my XA 160.5s.

The point 8 series use much more electricity than the point 5.

For example the XA60.5 uses 200 watts per mono block and the XA60.8 uses 375 watts per mono block.

I leave my 60.5's on 24/7 for best sound, and do not notice a rise in temperature in my room. It is like four 100 watt light bulbs. I am leary of temperature cycling adding stress.

A near doubling of heat casts doubts about long term reliability, with the necessary turning off and on, resulting in temperature cycling the power transistors.

Also, the point 8's do not appear to be a huge jump in sound quality from the early reports.

I may just keep the 60.5's.

When Pass Labs went from Aleph's to XA's many felt that was a step back in sound quality. I hope history is not repeating.

 

[PeterA]

No, I have not heard both the .8 and .5 side by side in the same system. Would love the opportunity though!

Bruce, I think you wrote upthread somewhere that you are holding out for the XS series. Have you heard those in your system yet, or directly compared them to either the .8 or the .5 in the same system? If so, I'd be very interested in your impressions. I'm very curious if the .8 is closer in sound to the XS or to the .5.

And also for existing XA.5/XP30, owners such as yourself, whether or not you would do better to go XA.8/XS Pre or XS150/XP30. The former would be a slightly less expensive upgrade and may prove to be better sonically with three fewer boxes.

 

[PeterA]

All I read are Peter's and Madfloyd's opinions. That is NOT extensive!

Madfloyd's testing has been a "circus".

Too many changes of power cables and speaker cables. And "one night" A/B testing with the amps not " powered on" for 2 days to reach the optimal sound. If you shut down the amp the "clock" starts over for optimal sound quality as per Nelson Pass.

Also Madfloyd has medical hearing issues preventing him from hearing and detecting sound quality!

His testing is a joke!

The verdict on the point 8 is not in yet IMO.

I think these comments are very insulting.

Yes, Madfloyd did introduce some other variables at a similar time, but he had both amps in for audition over six weeks and used all of that time to do a proper evaluation, imo. I heard the amp comparison after eight days and then again after five weeks. My impressions remained consistent.

It's true that Madfloyd's and mine are just two opinions, but we had a third good friend join us both times, and he also preferred the .8. He is also a member of this forum. There are others on this forum and on AudioShark who have directly compared amps from both lines. So yes, your sample is "NOT extensive" because you admit to reading just our two opinions. You have chosen not to read the other easily available opinions, many of which are consistent with ours. These are not right or wrong, they are just opinions from those who have heard the amps.

Perhaps you don't think that the verdict on the .8 is yet in. Whose verdict are you actually waiting for? And how would it make a difference to you? I've heard them for myself in one system which I know pretty well. I liked them enough to want to hear them in my own system. That is a good enough initial impression for me. You may go about things differently, and that is fine.

 

[Howard]

And also for existing XA.5/XP30, owners such as yourself, whether or not you would do better to go XA.8/XS Pre or XS150/XP30. The former would be a slightly less expensive upgrade and may prove to be better sonically with three fewer boxes.

Honestly - unless I had a lot of coin burning a hole in my pocket I'd be completely satisfied with the XA.8/XP-30 combination and using any leftover funds for bringing the rest of your gear up to their level. This gear, especially with high resolution (i.e. unforgiving) speakers will really call out the weak link in your system. The effect of upgrades and tweaks is very obvious.

 

[PeterA]

Honestly - unless I had a lot of coin burning a hole in my pocket I'd be completely satisfied with the XA.8/XP-30 combination and using any leftover funds for bringing the rest of your gear up to their level. This gear, especially with high resolution (i.e. unforgiving) speakers will really call out the weak link in your system. The effect of upgrades and tweaks is very obvious.

Howard, I agree with you. I can hope to aspire to the .8/XP30 level myself. My comments were more of a thought exercise for those actually contemplating that top tier XS level. From what I have heard of the .8, and I did have the XP30 in my system, you are right that these components will make one very aware of shortcomings in source, speaker, wire or isolation. They are extremely revealing components.

 

[Howard]

Howard, I agree with you. I can hope to aspire to the .8/XP30 level myself. My comments were more of a thought exercise for those actually contemplating that top tier XS level. From what I have heard of the .8, and I did have the XP30 in my system, you are right that these components will make one very aware of shortcomings in source, speaker, wire or isolation. They are extremely revealing components.

Yeah, especially with revealing speakers (like my Magico S5s). In addition to what you mentioned, a really good rack (OK - you did say isolation) and room treatments need to be part of the overall plan.