New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World

[NorthStar]

I know you like them Bob but cars and audio equipment have different market rules. By the way know any taxpayer subsidized high end companies?

david

David, I was reading about the addiction on the fees of the real estate market here in Canada earlier; outrageous!
• http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/real-estate-fees-home-sales-1.4226630

I don't know much about cars, that's why I am interested about Tesla and the competition. ...Plus the Ferraris and the Bugattis and the Roll-Royces who are soon coming up with their own electric versions.

* Taxpayer subsidized high end companies? Out of my blu no.

 

[NorthStar]

I get it guys. Some here don't like Tesla and/or electric cars in general. This thread is starting to turn into a digital vs. vinyl thread. No surprise there.

Joe, I wouldn't worry much by guys who have a Phd associated with the science of transportation today. It is evolving so fast that to keep up you have to constantly study, every day.
This is a domain of great resource; we won't let religion, sex, politiks, hi-yend tubes audio take over electric smart cars like from Tesla.
Enough of this pollution taking over the weather and the movies. I learned my lesson a while back; time to stay on the road.

In the long run Tesla is a model of smart future evolution. I'm the first one who is listening to what the owners like you have to say.

 

[ddk]

For a start up ( and that is exactly what Tesla was and perhaps still is) to compete with the 'BIG' boys is an incredibly difficult proposition in the automotive world. Many have tried before and failed, including several well thought after cars...can we say Tucker and maybe even the DeLorean. For Uncle Sam to assist a start up with bringing to the market new technology and a different design that portends well for the future of the automobile, is...IMHO a very positive thing.
Or perhaps you would prefer that Uncle Sam pour even more $$$ into the immense defense budget and build more warship/warplanes and other assorted weapons. I know where I would rather see the money spent!

Nothing to do with my preferences just stating the facts, it's good to be the Musk!

david

PS. FYI the role of federal government is to protect the nation from foreign and domestic enemies not to subsidize private enterprises at the expense of others.

 

[Don Hills]

... If I can charge my car via solar, it is better for the economy than any gas powered car.

There are several problems with that:
- The area of solar panels required per car to replace the daily driving energy usage.
- The need for batteries to store the electricity generated during the day so it can be used to charge the car at night. (Unless you work a night shift...)
- The cost and environmental impact of manufacturing the panels and batteries.

 

[NorthStar]

I've been reading few articles on self-driving cars and energy powered from various sources.
In big cities electric cars are a positive, like New York, Los Angeles, and depending of world's regions and economies, the price advantage and pollution advantage can vary.

• https://www.masterresource.org/electric-vehicles/energy-usage-cost-gasoline-vs-electric/

 

[Bruce B]

Bottom line Mike, Bruce, Christian and even myself with the big ICE and bragging about how they sound compared to an electric engine.This is nothing more now than a bunch of old guys pumping their chests and making excuses about how great their car sounds as compared to the Tesla which can snuff any one of these cars. However it isn't about this and for all of us as consumers the days of fossil fuels to power our cars are numbered and the days of electric cars as Frantz points out is upon us.

I just like the visceral feel of driving something with horsepower. I've driven a Tesla for a couple of days and even have ridden a Zero SR motorcycle for a weekend. They are niche objects to me. The novelty wore off in a hour. Nothing to see here.
If you want "Autopilot", then hire a chauffeur or pay for a Town Car to take you to the airport. If I want to help the environment, then I'll get solar panels. Hell... my artificial turf doesn't need water or maintenance.... just a vacuum a couple times a year!

 

[DaveyF]

PS. FYI the role of federal government is to protect the nation from foreign and domestic enemies not to subsidize private enterprises at the expense of others.

FYI, the federal government has many roles, not just protecting the nation from foreign and domestic enemies. One of those roles is to encourage job creation and market expansion. That job creation does not have to be solely in the realm of protecting the nation from foreign and domestic enemies, or for expanding the defense capabilities. If subsidizing private enterprise creates job creation, then the federal government is succeeding in one of its roles. Whether you happen to like this circumstance or not is irrelevant.

 

[christoph]

Except this isn't subjective. It's about FACTS, and it's totally objective. There's no possible way you can make a case for Teslas being better for the environment vs an average gas powered car.

In your "calculation" you generously dismiss the energy needed to find, source, produce and transport the gasoline, whereas with electric engines, you calculate the whole process from adam and eve

We do have 100 square meters of photovoltaik on our roof and produce more electricity than we use with my several music systems, the homecinema, the huge house and the hybrid Volvo of my wife. The overproduction is sent into the electricity grid.

I do have a Corvette C7 but I would love to have a Tesla S.
My C7 is just too new to change to a Model S.
I testdrove the Model S and even compared to my beloved C7, the Model S (90?) was at least as much fun to drive as my C7

My wife has a Volvo V70 hybrid that can make about 50 kilometers with pure electricity and it's the perfect car for her.
She drives purely with electricity 80% of the daily commuting to work and shopping and when she goes hoerseriding further away and pulling the horse trailer, she uses the "normal" engine in the Volvo.

We like the Volvo a lot and it's wonderful to drive because with that concept, you can have it all:

Drive purely electrically within the daily commuting range
Have a powerful all wheel driven car when needed to pull a trailer (manually switching to all wheel drive)
Have a very comfortable, quiet travel car with quite some overtaking power at the push of a button "Power" to activate both motor systems together for almost 300 horsepower

Even though, my wife absolutely fancies the Model X for those duties.
I don't like the optics of the Model X too much.

So maybe we have wait for the Model 3 (is there an 4 wheel drive option available?) as a possible replacement in a few years for my Vette and the Model Y for my wife.

 

[FrantzM]

FYI, the federal government has many roles, not just protecting the nation from foreign and domestic enemies. One of those roles is to encourage job creation and market expansion. That job creation does not have to be solely in the realm of protecting the nation from foreign and domestic enemies, or for expanding the defense capabilities. If subsidizing private enterprise creates job creation, then the federal government is succeeding in one of its roles. Whether you happen to like this circumstance or not is irrelevant.

Meanwhile the subsidies for fossil are neatly and conveniently forgotten.. There are several other subsidies but we are veering off board.

I am with Christoph too... For Electrical it is so convenient to calculate everything from a to z but for fossil everything is neatly swept under the carpet: Distribution cost, logistics in general are forgotten. As for environmental cost and consequences they don't seem to matter.
I can understand someone not liking the Tesla. i maintain that this one of one of those rare cars who anticipate what a driver/commuter wants, needs and execute it in such a smooth fashion it is quickly forgotten and become normal, routine, natural. Many car enthusiasts loved the smell of gas and the joy of synchronizing quad-barrel carburetors.. the public at large didn't; now every single car on the road is fuel-injected and all cars are run by computers.. The next step is to do away with the ICE and it is happening. Tesla is the poster boy. All car manufacturers are gearing up for all electric production lest they are left in a cloud of exhaust gas . The economies and advantages are compelling.
Oh! my cars are ICE , my Tesla is almost a year away ... Home in Haiti , i am mostly solar but have back-up generators in my home and business. Home, the rooftop panels generate all the electricity I need. I use solar for water heating too... Cooking for now, is fossil ( propane) but I am working on doing that with renewable soon ...

 

[wisnon]

In CH they have banned the loud engine noise of the supercars. They all now need VROOM noise cancelling mufflers.

I agree Christoph about the full cycle of oil exploration. Dont forget the wars and insurgencies promoted to get to that oil cheaply...that is a hidden cost too.

A lot of global strife is fostered to ease the path of big oil to new supplies. That is why people in countries where oil is newly discovered become VERY afraid.

 

[wisnon]

To me it is stunning but only in person.

bmw i8 is more beautiful than either.

 

[wisnon]

Here in the us we still use mostly fossil fuel to produce electricity. The only thing that makes charging an electric car make sense is if it's done off peak hours. I've studied renewable energy in engineering school, and worked for Vestas Wind Turbines designing their Nacelle and Hub factory in Brighton CO so I'm very much for renewable energy technology that actually makes sense.

Nuclear doesn't make sense at all for many reasons. I'd rather have coal to be honest.

I still maintain that if you think a Tesla makes environmental sense you're deluding yourself. It's just not as simple as the fact it doesn't burn gas.

I am interested to hear your arguments against nuclear...

For one, I know it has unmatched energy density...but is also diabolical in the handling and disposal of the waste.

 

[christoph]

bmw i8 is more beautiful than either.

I also testdrove the i8 and by far prefer the Model S over the i8.
For the i8, I wouldn't get rid of my beloved C7, for a higher Model S (90 or higher) I would.
Apart from the completely ridiculous price of the i8.

PS: I quite fancy the new Honda NSX for it's looks but it is ever pricier than the i8. At least in Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

 

[christoph]

I qm interested to hear your arguments against nuclear...

For one, I know it has unmatched energy density...but is also diabolical in the handling and disposal of the waste.

There (bolded part) you have it. That is more than enough argument already

 

[Joe Whip]

Christoph, the all wheel drive Model 3's won't be available until 2018. Our Model S is all wheel drive. On the East Coast here, that is a necessity. BruceB mentions horsepower. Geez, the S is incredibly quick and has torque and speed out the ying yang. Our benz is sluggish and slow in comparison. It's top speed is only 155 mph. As the top speed limit in these parts is 70, I can live with that.

 

[wisnon]

I also testdrove the i8 and by far prefer the Model S over the i8.
For the i8, I wouldn't get rid of my beloved C7, for a higher Model S (90 or higher) I would.
Apart from the completely ridiculous price of the i8.

PS: I quite fancy the new Honda NSX for it's looks but it is ever pricier than the i8. At least in Switzerland and Liechtenstein.

I was only speaking of eye catching beauty...not driveability. The i3 is ugly but drives nicely, for example.

 

[wisnon]

There (bolded part) you have it. That is more than enough argument already

Gotta balance that against the unmatched energy density...unless we accept that we become cavemen again in 50 years. LoL

 

[wisnon]

Nothing to do with my preferences just stating the facts, it's good to be the Musk!

david

PS. FYI the role of federal government is to protect the nation from foreign and domestic enemies not to subsidize private enterprises at the expense of others.

This last sentence sounds positively SOVIET! LoL
Rephrase as the role of the Luminous State Govt is to protect against anti-Soviet behaviour!!!!

 

[wisnon]

+1 and to add to your comment Tesla could be costing us in more ways that we even know. The way Tesla is subsidized it makes it very difficult or almost impossible for anyone with better technologies to compete, that could be a very huge loss.

david

You mean in all those decades nothing emerged and you now speculate about a huge loss? Petrol costs the planet in more ways that people want to admit. WAR being the chief offender...human like wasted like junk. Pollution covered up...google what (dutch firm)Trafigura did in the Ivory Coast a decade ago, for a small taste.

 

[wisnon]

The facts are a Tesla is likely overall worse for the planet and worse for human beings vs a traditional car in terms of both greenhouse gasses and it's massively worse in terms of it's environmental impact and pollution. I studied how to evaluate similar technology by the guy who came up with the entire concept of EROEI, Energy Return On Energy Invested and wrote Thermodynamics textbooks. I understand not everyone has the same perspective and people don't have time to research every subject in the world, but be careful what beliefs you adapt. The concept of an electric car only works out if we have clean sources of electricity and better battery technology. It's a great concept that doesn't work with our current level of technology.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, the current state of play is indeed overstated... the point is that there is likely MORE headroom down this pathway and as tech breakthrough come, we will soon enuff get to the crossover point for enviro friendliness?

The other point that Joe made is also valid, and is why trams and electric buses are used in city centres. The pollution is kept out in remote factory locations ans away from downown streets where the density of inhabitants is very large.