Magico S5
- Thread starter ack
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The S and Q series are not different animals. The Q is basically the same design principles executed to a higher level. In fact, the S enclosure does some things the Q doesn't and vice versa. Remember also that you're dealing with a four (eg. a dedicated bass driver) with the Q series and the advantages that brings vs. a three way speaker as with the S. The S5, as is any great speaker, demands the best in source material and equipment and specifically listening to material you know.
They sound quuite different - enough in my opinion to consider they do not seem to belong to the same family! Assuming the risk of being misunderstood I would think about the differences between Kef and B&Wf.
They sound quuite different - enough in my opinion to consider they do not seem to belong to the same family! Assuming the risk of being misunderstood I would think about the differences between Kef and B&Wf.
Having lived with one of them, I definitely think there's more than a passing resemblance. They definitely both share a common quietness, transparency, linearity, coherency and resolution. Just the Q's take it to the next level. And as I said, remember the Q is a four way speaker.
Interesting...to be fair, I believe your MM3s are pretty serious all-out, big speakers so that's tough competition, and i dont think the S5s were necessarily designed with such enormous all-out speakers in mind as direct competition. Also, I do wonder if you felt they were poorly setup...if perhaps they did what they were supposed to do...and reflect a poor setup which is what you heard.
Nevertheless, I take your point...a disappointing audition will leave you less than inspired to bring them home...particularly when you've got MM3s at home now.
Two members on the forum have moved away from the MM3 to something substantially smaller (and never looked back), so I'm quite intrigued to learn what a smaller speaker can deliver in my (only) 13' x 20' room. So far I have not heard any that enticed me to got a pair to listen to at home. Next up is TAD, if I ever get the chance to hear them.
I did fall in love with the focal stella utopia sound at Axpona but they are also enormous, outside of my budget, and I'm not sure I would get them to sing in my room, which is much smaller than the Axpona demo room. Of course, I'm quite happy with the MM3s and dread the idea of having to move them, so this is all just exploratory.
BTW, isn't there an upgrade now for your MM3s? something with a separate crossover or something derived from the development of the MM7? Have you considered this?
Not a chance in hell. The price is something in the $40K range. Worse than the absolute outlay is the fact that the cross over will worth $10K tops on the used market the moment I take it out of the box. As a rule of thumb, I take a maximum of 20% depreciation hit on stuff I buy, not 75%. I also don't have the space for an additional tower (which is how they are packaged). Finally, I don't like the idea of paying top dollar for ultra expensive cabinet work to house a crossover.
I guess not in terms of energizing the room. But at the very least I would expect the S5s to do a better disappearing act, which they did not. Giant MM3s totally disappear in my small room.
no surprise that.
the MM3's are very room integration friendly with all the adjustments in their active bass. there are many MM2 and MM3 owners in small'ish rooms that are very satisfied. and the ceramic mid-range ribbon tweeter is natural smooth and seamless.
I have a local friend with MM3's and the same 13' x 20' (maybe 22'?) room size that sounds wonderful.
Eric's MM3's were in my room for 5 years.
You comments pretty much reflected my own thoughts LL21. It would be a tough, but not necessarily insurmountable task for a $32k speaker to reach the level of sound of a well designed $70k high end speaker providing you take the time to get to know the speaker and listen to it with different amps/setups to see which creates the best synergy. Myles was correct when he eluded to the importance of good attention to detail with upstream electronics, cables, isolation etc for the S5s. They are very accurate and revealing of the upstream gear. The S5's will clearly convey to the listener what they're being fed. If you get it right, the S5's will sound boxless, coherent, well balanced top to bottom, smooth, resolving, a touch warm & wonderfully revealing of inner detail and textural elements in the bass in particular. S5 is really remarkable in this way. But unlike the S3, to me the S5 is the more complete, well balanced speaker and the one I would take home based on my room and ear.
My advice would be, don't dismiss the S5's after just one audition. When I auditioned the S5's, I heard them in 4 different setups before making a decision including with Soulution, Dartzeel, Vitus Reference and Vitus Signature series amps. You can have a listen to some of those setups here. The best amps I heard with the S5 were the Soulution 720/520, Dartzeel NHB-108/NHB-18NS & Vitus SIA-025/SCD-025 spinner. All these pairings produced some magic which the S5's conveyed to the listener, though ultimately I fell in love with the Vitus Sig Series.
Regarding the disappearing act, I will be adding Stillpoints Ultra 5's with Ultra bases to my S5's in the correct sloped side up orientation soon & will report my findings. In fact, I'm picking up the U5's today
This setup might just be the last piece of the puzzle to allow the S5's to disappear in the room. A Sydney Dealer I know reported great success placing U5's under a pair of MM3's, so I am sure they will have the same benefit under my S5's. We'll see!
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Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
It is not a question of price. The S5, objectively will stand quite well against the MM3, and will surely disappear better (I am sorry, but in your room, I don't think you can even sit far enough for the MM3 drivers to integrate properly). Subjectively, if you are happy with this kind of set up in such a small room, why look for a smaller speaker? I doubt that the S5, or the TAD will do it for you.
Since I am not a bass-hole I am glad my S5s are lacking in bass. On the other hand, I do listen to classical, and modern, string quartets 90% of the time, so bass isn't really an issue. However, on Friday night after a few beers, Lady Gaga is in the house, and when the volume goes up the bass is there. When I had both amps on the same dedicated 20 amp circuit the bass tripped the breaker one night. The meters on the Pass X600.5 amps were bouncing crazy on the right side, and the S5s were just coasting. Now each amp has its own circuit so the bass can do its thing all it wants.
You comments pretty much reflected my own thoughts LL21. It would be a tough, but not necessarily insurmountable task for a $32k speaker to reach the level of sound of a well designed $70k high end speaker providing you take the time to get to know the speaker and listen to it with different amps/setups to see which creates the best synergy. Myles was correct when he eluded to the importance of good attention to detail with upstream electronics, cables, isolation etc for the S5s. They are very accurate and revealing of the upstream gear. The S5's will clearly convey to the listener what they're being fed. If you get it right, the S5's will sound boxless, coherent, well balanced top to bottom, smooth, resolving, a touch warm & wonderfully revealing of inner detail and textural elements in the bass in particular. S5 is really remarkable in this way. But unlike the S3, to me the S5 is the more complete, well balanced speaker and the one I would take home based on my room and ear.
My advice would be, don't dismiss the S5's after just one audition. When I auditioned the S5's, I heard them in 4 different setups before making a decision including with Soulution, Dartzeel, Vitus Reference and Vitus Signature series amps. You can have a listen to some of those setups here. The best amps I heard with the S5 were the Soulution 720/520, Dartzeel NHB-108/NHB-18NS & Vitus SIA-025/SCD-025 spinner. All these pairings produced some magic which the S5's conveyed to the listener, though ultimately I fell in love with the Vitus Sig Series.
Regarding the disappearing act, I will be adding Stillpoints Ultra 5's with Ultra bases to my S5's in the correct sloped side up orientation soon & will report my findings. In fact, I'm picking up the U5's today
Maybe don't dismiss anything after one audition. As we used to say in research, one experiment is no experiment; here we can say one listen is no listen. If a product sounds good great and it's worth investigating; if the product doesn't sound good, it doesn't mean anything and one must continue investigating.
Regarding the disappearing act, I will be adding Stillpoints Ultra 5's with Ultra bases to my S5's in the correct sloped side up orientation soon & will report my findings. In fact, I'm picking up the U5's today
Bodhi, Have you contacted Magico to discuss what they think about putting Stillpoints under their speakers? Alon Wolf has not recommended after market footers in the past. I tried them under my Magico speakers with poor results, but I was told that it was an inappropriate condition in which to try the U5's. There are so many positive reports about their use under speakers, that I'm curious about what you will think of them under your S5s. Please let us know.
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Hi Peter, Alon's advice is sound and indeed I would be providing the same advice to my Distributors and customers if I was in his position. Despite being bi-directional isolation devices, Stillpoints generally work best in the sloped side up position. Then you have to consider they have an ideal weight range within which they work. And results can vary from application to application. However, up until very recently Ultra 5's could only be fitted in the inferior sloped side down orientation, and could not accommodate the Ultra bases (thereby losing height adjustability). Now all new Ultra 5's have threading in both the bottom and top allowing installation of the feet in the superior sloped side up orientation using the optional thread adaptors & ability to add Ultra bases which further improve their performance & add height adjustability as I mentioned. At 86kg, with 3 feet + bases, the U5's are working optimally within thier weight range, whereas a lighter speaker with 4 feet installed would likely perform less optimally. S1 and S3 would not work at all because of the spiked outriggers, so Alon's advice is understandable. Will be sure to report my findings in the Magico forum .
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