LampizatOr Experts: What Lampi should I get?

[Agent86]

I've had the GG1 (R2R), the Baltic 3 and now the Baltic 4, with each one successively better than its predecessor, but still feel that something is missing with the B4. I've had the B4 for a month now and have tried quite a few tube combinations with only a couple of them yielding good results, though I do have a few more exotic valves on order, so haven't given up on finding the ultimate cocktail mix.

I think the issue may be the genre of music I listen to: classical symphonic The Baltic 4 is very impressive on rock and vocals, but it seems to struggle a bit rendering the more difficult passages in a Beethoven symphony. Hence, I'm wondering if I'm trying to squeeze too much out of it.

I should add that I have painful fatigue so need a Lampi model that's still rather organic sounding. Hence, I'm a little concerned about getting a second-hand Pacific, as the short comparison chart on the Lampizator Poland site indicates that the Pacific is a cooler, less tubey sounding DAC.


The options are:

-stick with Baltic 4 and keep trying tube combinations.

-Get a new Atlantic 3 TRP or a Big 7 Mk3

-Get a secondhand GG2 or Pacific


Thank you for any insights here.

 

[Golum]

IMHO GG2/3 might be the path for your happines based on what you wrote combined with my “personal” view of different Lampi DACs deliverables…

 

[Agent86]

IMHO GG2/3 might be the path for your happines based on what you wrote combined with my “personal” view of different Lampi DACs deliverables…

Thanks, Golum! I was figuring it might be the GG2/3 as the answer, at least for complex orchestral music. With other genres, the B4 does sound incredibly life-like and was just listening with great pleasure to The Buena Vista Social Club,

With my budget, I'll need to find a second-hand GG2, though you don't see them listed as often as the Pacific. But I take it you concur with Lampi's statement that the Pacific presents a somewhat cooler tone profile, as that might be a bit hard on my ears. Definitely need something warm and organic.

 

[christoph]

I've had the GG1 (R2R), the Baltic 3 and now the Baltic 4, with each one successively better than its predecessor, but still feel that something is missing with the B4. I've had the B4 for a month now and have tried quite a few tube combinations with only a couple of them yielding good results, though I do have a few more exotic valves on order, so haven't given up on finding the ultimate cocktail mix.

I think the issue may be the genre of music I listen to: classical symphonic The Baltic 4 is very impressive on rock and vocals, but it seems to struggle a bit rendering the more difficult passages in a Beethoven symphony. Hence, I'm wondering if I'm trying to squeeze too much out of it.

I should add that I have painful fatigue so need a Lampi model that's still rather organic sounding. Hence, I'm a little concerned about getting a second-hand Pacific, as the short comparison chart on the Lampizator Poland site indicates that the Pacific is a cooler, less tubey sounding DAC.


The options are:

-stick with Baltic 4 and keep trying tube combinations.

-Get a new Atlantic 3 TRP or a Big 7 Mk3

-Get a secondhand GG2 or Pacific


Thank you for any insights here.

Where are you located?

 

[Agent86]

I'm in San Francisco.

 

[christoph]

I'm in San Francisco.

That is a "little" far (I'm in Central Europe), otherwise I would have said "grab your B4 and visit me to compare your B4 directly with my TRP3, my Pacific and my Horizon".

But now knowing your preference for Classic Symphonies, I still (and even more so) would recommend you going for the Pacific.
IME, the Pacific is more transparent than the others on your list, NOT lean and certainly not bright. This will help you to more see through the Symphonies, easier than with the others on your list.

I would rather start with the more transparent Pacific and bring in more tube warmth with tube rolling if it should be neccessary (which I doubt) than going the other way around with lean sounding tubes to counteract on a more colorful DAC.

I'm pretty confident, that close to you are some Lampi owners with Pacifics or Golden Gates that would gladly have you and your B4 for a litmus test (Symphonies).

 

[christoph]

On a different matter, how sensitive are your Speakers?
Are you "married" to your Pass Amp?

 

[bonzo75]

I never liked any GG2. The GG3 sounds great. You can always spend more but at GG and higher priced models as far as I am concerned the competition is Lampi. Whatever you audition you need to have a set of tubes to roll during the audition.

 

[Golum]

I never liked any GG2. The GG3 sounds great. You can always spend more but at GG and higher priced models as far as I am concerned the competition is Lampi. Whatever you audition you need to have a set of tubes to roll during the audition.

As you never heard mine
On another note i concur with Lampi own assesment of the DAC range and what they deliver, so I’m still holding my GG reccommendation.
Note 2 - B4 is a fantastic DAC and I would ping @Sablon Audio for his advice in order with tube rolling to come to desired result - I’m sure it can be done…

 

[Agent86]

@christoph - My Verity speakers are 93db/8ohms. I do realize that the Pass integrated might be the weakest link in my audio chain, Would prefer to stick to an integrated just for housekeeping purposes. Do yo have a suggestion that doesn't bust the budget and that is on the warm-sounding side?

@bonzo75 + @Golum - I've been following some of Sablon's recommendations in the Baltic 3/4 threads and have discussed my own initial findings in the B4 thread. I am waiting on a couple more tubes to arrive, and the point is well taken, that experimentation with even some of the priciest tubes surely beats the cost of upgrading in the Lampi product line. With the right tube pairings, the B4 sounds great on everything--except symphonic music.

 

[bonzo75]

@christoph - My Verity speakers are 93db/8ohms. I do realize that the Pass integrated might be the weakest link in my audio chain, Would prefer to stick to an integrated just for housekeeping purposes. Do yo have a suggestion that doesn't bust the budget and that is on the warm-sounding side?

@bonzo75 + @Golum - I've been following some of Sablon's recommendations in the Baltic 3/4 threads and have discussed my own initial findings in the B4 thread. I am waiting on a couple more tubes to arrive, and the point is well taken, that experimentation with even some of the priciest tubes surely beats the cost of upgrading in the Lampi product line. With the right tube pairings, the B4 sounds great on everything--except symphonic music.

For symphony you really need to get to GG.

 

[abeidrov]

I never liked any GG2. The GG3 sounds great. You can always spend more but at GG and higher priced models as far as I am concerned the competition is Lampi. Whatever you audition you need to have a set of tubes to roll during the audition.

What is wrong with GG2? I thought that you did not like Pacific and preferred any GG to Pacific? GG2 with 242 tubes is not a good dac? You are very difficult person to please

 

[bonzo75]

What is wrong with GG2? I thought that you did not like Pacific and preferred any GG to Pacific? GG2 with 242 tubes is not a good dac? You are very difficult person to please

i liked GG1/1.5 and 3.

the GG2 and PAC came out together and had an artificial tone for me. Also the first GG was R2R and I preferred that, duelund and Jupiter caps, which changed in 2. Pac I liked in a couple of implementations later, something might have changed from initial version. Heihei’s PAC with 242 and audionec stern and Heisenberg cooling is definitely the best digital I heard. And Audioquattr’s PAC with 242 is excellent as well

GG3 sounds excellent. Very organic. Haven’t heard the new Pac

 

[christoph]

For symphony you really need to get to GG.

Why not the Pacific?

 

[Agent86]

On a different matter, how sensitive are your Speakers?
Are you "married" to your Pass Amp?

Christoph, did you have an integrated amp recommendation to pair with the 93db/8ohm Verity speakers?

 

[christoph]

Christoph, did you have an integrated amp recommendation to pair with the 93db/8ohm Verity speakers?

You being into Symphonies is a bit of an hurdle.

How big is your listening room and how loud do you listen?
Do you go to the limits of your 60 Watt Pass Integrated sound volume wise?

The Amp I had in mind is from Europe and unfortunately not distributed in the States.

But you could get a Pac with volume control (I would do that anyways for maximum flexibility regarding tubes) and go directly into a poweramp, also avoiding a preamp this way and have a bigger variety of possible amps compared to integrated only amps.

 

[Golum]

To be very very honest to myself first of all, after living with both GG2.5 and Pac for quite a while I liked more what my GG was delivering hence i can get from where Ked is coming. To me difference was not in sense better/worse but just in sense of being different and this “different” was more pleasing to my ears overall coming from GG2. There was one thing i remember which was clearly better with GG and that was my perception of the room being full of music which I lost with Pac.
Also to be honest my GG was not a normal production GG2 at a time but rather an “experimental” one with some preproduction tweaks on the PCB (later implemented overall), not having E53 but rather r2r and I can’t remember which caps but i think they were Mundorf Silver/Gold. So performance it delivered can be attributed to this fact for a quite a big extend.
After getting H this one married best of both worlds (Pac and GG) into one unit and to me that was it…plus quite some more…

 

[Golum]

You being into Symphonies is a bit of an hurdle.

How big is your listening room and how loud do you listen?
Do you go to the limits of your 60 Watt Pass Integrated sound volume wise?

The Amp I had in mind is from Europe and unfortunately not distributed in the States.

Has to be Ayon

 

[christoph]

Has to be Ayon

Ayon IS distributed in the States as far as I know

 

[Agent86]

You being into Symphonies is a bit of an hurdle.

How big is your listening room and how loud do you listen?
Do you go to the limits of your 60 Watt Pass Integrated sound volume wise?

The Amp I had in mind is from Europe and unfortunately not distributed in the States.

But you could get a Pac with volume control (I would do that anyways for maximum flexibility regarding tubes) and go directly into a poweramp, also avoiding a preamp this way and have a bigger variety of possible amps compared to integrated only amps.

My listening room is 22x14x 9 (in feet).



I listen at low-to-moderate volumes and don't get anywhere near the maximum output of the Pass Amp.

@Golum - Interesting that your best encounter with a Lamp GG was with a custom r2r design. My GG1 was r2r and I thought the Baltic 3 beat it hands down, but it just goes to show that a well-implemented ladder dac is a much more organic experience. To tell the truth, I've had a PM from someone urging me to try the SW1x r2r Dacs as an alternative to Lampi.