JRiver MC Version 18

Bruce B

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Apr 25, 2010
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This is normally called snake-oil selling - selling products with features that the producer "knows" to have no effect. Yes, suspending cables on platforms would probably qualify also. Ask Julf, he will tell you what is snake-oil & what isn't. Does he consider Jriver's memory playback as snake-oil, I wonder?

Well this is the same as Benchmark and Weiss. They don't believe in DSD though it was added in their DAC's.
 

jkeny

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Feb 9, 2012
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Well this is the same as Benchmark and Weiss. They don't believe in DSD though it was added in their DAC's.
Well these are new features being added i.e the DAC is now able to play a format that it otherwise couldn't, whatever about the SQ of this new format, it's added functionality.
Jriver has added nothing extra to SQ(according to them) or usability by the use of memory playback, only the operational/technical downsides of this addition!
Does this make sense to you?
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Well these are new features being added i.e the DAC is now able to play a format that it otherwise couldn't, whatever about the SQ of this new format, it's added functionality.
Jriver has added nothing extra to SQ(according to them) or usability by the use of memory playback, only the operational/technical downsides of this addition!
Does this make sense to you?

Well according to Benchmark and Weiss, DSD adds nothing to the SQ and actually "degrades" the SQ.
 

jkeny

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Feb 9, 2012
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Well according to Benchmark and Weiss, DSD adds nothing to the SQ and actually "degrades" the SQ.
Indeed, but now their DACs can actually play DSD - before they couldn't - it's new functionality, right!
So what is Jriver's memory playback adding to the functionality - they say it adds nothing to SQ?
 

Julf

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Nov 27, 2011
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Indeed, but now their DACs can actually play DSD - before they couldn't - it's new functionality, right!
So what is Jriver's memory playback adding to the functionality - they say it adds nothing to SQ?

They added something the customers seemed to want. So your issue is with the fact that they are too open about doubting it makes a difference?
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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They added something the customers seemed to want. So your issue is with the fact that they are too open about doubting it makes a difference?

The way they see it (correctly in my opinion), they are forced to add a feature they feel adds no value strictly for marketing reasons, because other vendors have convinced the market this is a value added feature. I agree it does not meat the snake-oil criteria though.
 

jkeny

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Feb 9, 2012
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They added something the customers seemed to want. So your issue is with the fact that they are too open about doubting it makes a difference?

No, I just think it is hilarious so I suppose they have added something, as you said - hilarity,
 

jkeny

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The way they see it (correctly in my opinion), they are forced to add a feature they feel adds no value strictly for marketing reasons, because other vendors have convinced the market this is a value added feature. I agree it does not meat the snake-oil criteria though.

"forced to add" is a bit over the top, no? There are many other features that their customers want & they chose which to implement & waste their effort on in deference to other features
 

Julf

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Nov 27, 2011
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No, I just think it is hilarious so I suppose they have added something, as you said - hilarity,

See, a win-win!
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jun 30, 2010
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So Jriver add features that they see no benefit to, that they don't believe work & that have potential technical problems?? Give me a break, please!


Just so I have this straight JRiver introduced a change, due to popular demand - which has no benefit to the end user (according to them), only possible/probable technical issues as highlighted in their quotes text?? So they are quiet willing to sell what they consider to be snake-oil ingredients.

It sort of negates the snake oil part if they tell you upfront that it is somewhere between useless and detrimental, John. What I think jriver is saying, a bit more softly than I will, is that memory play is snake oil...we don't recommend that you use it, we think it actually causes performance problems, but so many audiophiles seem to have drunk this particular flavor of kool aide that we stuck it in here, with a strong warning labe., to keep from losing the business.

Not great marketing, but brutally honest.

Tim
 

jkeny

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Feb 9, 2012
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It sort of negates the snake oil part if they tell you upfront that it is somewhere between useless and detrimental, John. What I think jriver is saying, a bit more softly than I will, is that memory play is snake oil...we don't recommend that you use it, we think it actually causes performance problems, but so many audiophiles seem to have drunk this particular flavor of kool aide that we stuck it in here, with a strong warning labe., to keep from losing the business.

Not great marketing, but brutally honest.

Tim
To be consistent then they really should have a warning flash on the screen that "Memory play is a hoax & any user who tries it will not be supported by JRiver"

Hilarious!
 

dallasjustice

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Apr 12, 2011
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I downloaded mc19. Works great. When will the new dynamic range analysis be available so I can beat Bruce Brown over the head with it. :)

 

Phelonious Ponk

New Member
Jun 30, 2010
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To be consistent then they really should have a warning flash on the screen that "Memory play is a hoax & any user who tries it will not be supported by JRiver"

Hilarious!

Pretty much what they did say, they just found a more professional way to say it.

tim
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
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Radiohead says . . .

Hilarious!!
"Knives Out"

So Jriver add features that they see no benefit to, that they don't believe work & that have potential technical problems?? Give me a break, please!
"You and Whose Army"

Just so I have this straight JRiver introduced a change, due to popular demand - which has no benefit to the end user (according to them), only possible/probable technical issues as highlighted in their quotes text?? So they are quiet willing to sell what they consider to be snake-oil ingredients.
"Dollars and Cents"

This is normally called snake-oil selling - selling products with features that the producer "knows" to have no effect. Yes, suspending cables on platforms would probably qualify also. Ask Julf, he will tell you what is snake-oil & what isn't. Does he consider Jriver's memory playback as snake-oil, I wonder?
"Life In a Glass House"

Jkeny,
I responded to all of your arguments without taking my mind off Radiohead's MOST awesome album which I am listening to right now. You know which one it is?
 

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