Actually, per Antipodes, the new USB board is supposed to bring USB up to the same sound quality as SPDIF, AES and I2S on the OLADRA as well as the K50.
Innuos Statement nextgen v Antipodes K50
- Thread starter Anyoldears
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No, if you look at the processing diagrams of Oladra vs K50 you see that Oladra has one additional reclocking stage:
Antipodes Oladra Music Servers/Streamer
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Antipodes K50 Music Server/Streamer
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Matt
I wasn't clear - the USB on the K50 is the equivalent of the legacy outputs on the K50 and the OLADRA USB uses a second board to bring it up to the legacy outputs on the OLADRA. From the Antipodes forum -
Product Updates 2023
The Changes
Changes to the OLADRA and the K Series are due to four key developments that we have been working on over several months.
Other benefits include an increase of 200% to 400% in system resources to improve system responsiveness, and enterprise-level OS resilience against data loss in unusual AC power events.
antipodes.support
Product Updates 2023
The Changes
Changes to the OLADRA and the K Series are due to four key developments that we have been working on over several months.
- Installing the OLADRA’s triple-cascade power supply technology in the K Series models.
- Installing our proprietary high-quality isolation footers on the K Series models.
- Upgrading K50 and K41 Server engines with innovations used in the OLADRA.
- Upgrading the Player engines for the OLADRA, K50, K22 & K21.
- Installing new USB outputs for the OLADRA, K50, K22 & K21.
Other benefits include an increase of 200% to 400% in system resources to improve system responsiveness, and enterprise-level OS resilience against data loss in unusual AC power events.
Antipodes Audio - Updated Range and Upgrade Program - July 2023
Antipodes Audio Press Release 30 June 2023 Antipodes Audio is proud to announce its updated server/streamer line-up for 2023, with updates to the existing flagship OLADRA and the K Series range. Coupled with the release of the updated range is the Antipodes Audio Upgrade Program for all...
antipodes.support
Yes, smart move on Antipodes part to feed their internal DDC from the reclocked USB on the OLADRA. In theory that could give the synchronous outputs an advantage over USB, but it will depend on other factors.
Hasn’t only one person reported that and this person being one who had already favored a synchronous output? I think we need to hear from a few others including some who may have optimized around USB to be able to draw conclusions.
My own experience with the different outputs lead me to the conclusion that the cable used matters more, so I try to avoid declaring any one method superior to the other. It depends on a number of factors, including whether the clock that USB is able to reference is superior to the clock in the Antipodes reclocker.
FWIW
I can feed my Lampizator Golden Gate from an Innuos Statement with either USB or Ethernet.
The USB is direct with an FTA Callisto cable.
Ethernet runs thru a SOtM CAT7 ethernet cable to an UltraRendu, then a Network Acoustics ENO Ag USB (needs the 5V) to an Antipodes S20/S60, then a Black Cat SilverStar BNC to the Lampizator.
I can switch between the feeds via remote on the Lampizator and I prefer the multi-leg BNC input to the direct USB with the better cable.
The USB is leaner and detailed. The BNC is warmer, well fleshed with fuller notes and timbre.
There is a good follow-up review of the Statement NG in the November Stereophile. The Innuos' CD reader and editing software, in addition to its excellent playback quality, make this an attractive package for my needs.
Your observations are be influenced by the different cables in use. I think one would have to try to get things as close to apples to apples with cables to be able to arrive at a fair assessment of one output vs the other. And even in that case, the clocks in use in both the streamer and DAC will limit the applicability of those findings to other hardware combination.
I think the Final Touch Audio Callisto USB cable is better than the SOtM or NA or BlackCat cables, it makes me wonder if SPDIF is better than the USB connection for my DAC.
Yes, reasonable to assume that. Sorry I missed that you mentioned that previously.
What USB to I²S module is the Golden Gate using?
If you're using the older Amanero based one or the "plain Jane" JLSounds, you can try upgrading to the Lampizator "sandwich" master clocked JLSounds one.
Since the re-clocker in the Innuos only re-clocks the USB communication protocol part, the clock and overall USB implementation in the DAC still play an important part in determining USB SQ as a whole, as @ kennyb123 has implied above.
Moreover, your observations between USB and SPDIF SQ seem familiar and dare I say pretty much "universal", as many have come to observe much the same results in wildly different systems.
Please excuse the generalization to follow, but since SPDIF cannot get as detailed as USB no matter what the technology used, I tend to think that if the USB implementation is done properly (both in the server and DAC), the result will be "better" than SPDIF, although maybe not as good as direct I²S.
BTW, I've had the Callisto in my system and it's a superb cable.
My Golden Gate does not have a I2S input, I am converting the Ethernet output to USB and then USB to SPDIF/BNC and that to my ears is better than direct USB from the Statement.
My last DAC was a Terminator Plus and I2S from an Iris was better than the USB. I regret I did not think to try the BNC connection.
I have considered upgrading to a Golden Gate 3 with the new JL Sounds USB but I am concerned I might not like the upgrade with the new digital engine.
The USB "input" on the Lampi is in reality a USB to I²S converter board.
Same with the Terminator and several other DACs and as it seems one of the weak links in USB SQ.
If you have second thoughts about swapping the older digital engine with the newer one, you could always try upgrading just the USB board to the technically superior master-clocked JLSounds one and see if that proves sufficient in bridging the gap between direct USB from the Statement and BNC through your external Antipodes converter.
However, since the power requirements of the new USB board are higher, I am not entirely certain if this scenario is technically feasible in the Golden Gate.
In any case, you'd have to consult Lampizator first and they will point you towards the right direction.
Another scenario would be to add an I²S input on the Lampi, which can be easily done (you'd have to "sacrifice" one of the other inputs).
Innuos are planning to offer an I²S output board for the Pulsar, which I suppose could be made available to Statement users too (or at least I don't see why not...).
When that happens you could go I²S to I²S directly without any additional conversion stages and their related burden.
Of course. Please excuse the pedantic approach. I was only trying to explain things as clearly as possible.
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Does the I2S conversion also apply to other inputs like SPDIF?
Previously I had a W4S DAC and Music Server. Out of curiosity I added an I2S output on the Music Server to use the I2S input on the DAC. E.J. at W4S told me the USB was a better input and I proved him correct. I am reluctant to install and add-on I2S board again.
When I had a Denafrips TP and Iris the I2S was the best input until I upgraded the firmware for the FPGA and USB receiver. After the upgrade I felt the USB was better than I2S, however there was a glitch with the I2S pin out settings not being able to play both PCM and DSD on one pin setting. I don't know if that would affect the SQ. I think the USB firmware upgrade made it better.
My W4S was optimized for USB, the Denafrips for I2S and it seems to me the Golden Gate for SPDIF.
Previously I had a W4S DAC and Music Server. Out of curiosity I added an I2S output on the Music Server to use the I2S input on the DAC. E.J. at W4S told me the USB was a better input and I proved him correct. I am reluctant to install and add-on I2S board again.
When I had a Denafrips TP and Iris the I2S was the best input until I upgraded the firmware for the FPGA and USB receiver. After the upgrade I felt the USB was better than I2S, however there was a glitch with the I2S pin out settings not being able to play both PCM and DSD on one pin setting. I don't know if that would affect the SQ. I think the USB firmware upgrade made it better.
My W4S was optimized for USB, the Denafrips for I2S and it seems to me the Golden Gate for SPDIF.
Yes, quoting field experts: I²S is more or less the native interface of DAC chips. The reason it can sound "better" is that it isn't modulated like SPIDF, thus keeping the clock and data signals discrete, which creates the potential for lower jitter figures. However, I²S is not a standard for transmitting data, as it has no specs for data and connections, the reason we see so many different implementations (various hdmi or ethernet configurations).
That said, USB or other conversion methods to I²S can sound just as good, but there is always a certain "duality" in the nature of their implementation, as both the transmitting and receiving (server and DAC) ends have to be on a par as far as implementation is concerned and possibly also why we see so many different SQ differences. This "duality" can of course extend to I²S to I²S implementations as well.
So indeed, different equipment with different "dual" implementations, can yield different results and as audiophiles we can only go so far as to try and see which combination ticks most of the boxes according to our systems and preferences.
My take on the matter (per post #34 above), and the way I try to approach it is this: I also currently use USB out (from the Pulsar through the JLSounds board in my Lampi) and have no regrets regarding SQ, while in the future, I aspire to move to an I²S to I²S configuration, hoping that -ceteris paribus- the elimination of an extra conversion stage will work beneficially towards a SQ increase. Let's see what tomorrow brings...
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That all makes sense, it seems to come down to implementation of conversions vs theory of simplifying conversion. I will probably send my Golden Gate in some day for the upgrade to GG3, right now I dont want to rock the boat. In the mean time serial DDC's gives me the best SQ similar to the effect of serial Ethernet Switches( I have 3).
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