Hybrid amp designs - why haven't they taken off?
- Thread starter caesar
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Caesar-I have noticed that you have been carpet bombing the forum with questions everywhere. My brother has a pair of the Counterpoint Natural Progession monoblock amps which use a tube rectifier and 4 6922s in the input stage with IGBTs in the output stage. These are nice sounding amps. I think the biggest reason why there aren't more hybrid amps is that people who design with SS tend to design all SS and the same for tube designers. The original Moscode amps still have a following. The original Counterpoint SA-12 was a very nice sounding amp if you could get by with 75 watts.
I'm tube and SS neutral. Maybe that's why I've got hybrids all over the place including LSA Hybrid integrateds. I mean most of the folks I know lean heavily one way or another for a variety of reasons. I don't. The tube guys just don't like the looks of transistors and the SS guys usually think tubes take a lot more TLC. There are a lot of folks that use tubed pres with SS amps though and are quite happy.
Personally, I've seen too many B+ fuses blow in my lifetime so I'm more comfortable with Hybrid or SS power amps. As far as preamps go, my heart belongs to peanut tubes.
Personally, I've seen too many B+ fuses blow in my lifetime so I'm more comfortable with Hybrid or SS power amps. As far as preamps go, my heart belongs to peanut tubes.
I'm a tubehead (who still runs a 101D preamp) and I've had a hand in designing tube amps and SS amps. The problem with the tube power amp is that it takes tender loving care (and a little obsession with tube-rolling) to keep them running optimally. And the moment you plug in a new tube, it starts to deteriorate. When I stopped production of my tube amp, I contemplated a hybrid tube/Class D design, but it would have been the worst of both worlds. Also, at that time oil was climbing towards $120 a barrel, and running a 200W power supply for an input stage to a power stage that consumes 8W seemed a little ludicrous.
I apologise, if I do not feel experienced ;-)
But I must admit that I have had two unforgettable integrated amps, both of which I regret getting rid of:
The Pathos TT (formerly Twin Towers) is a perfect amp. it has beauty and pace, although not a very fast pace (Berning being the reference)
Einstein "the absolute tune" is an incredibly versatile amp, although not quite up there in colour, but it lays such a wide clear picture - fantastic!
Both these amps are hybrid, the Einstein a Mosfet OTL if ever there was an interesting concept, there it is.
And the Pathos is a special Class A concept.
I would choose them over any Accuphase integrated - if I do not need more power, that is.
egidius
Power supply is the main issue, sound quality always depend on a good quality power supply, when change a rectifier tube in a tube amp always can detect the sound change too, if to build 2 power supplies in one amp (high v for tube and high current for SS) in same budget, the advantage from hybrid but giving up power supply's quality, take one but loose one that is why market without answer cost more but no big return, maybe a no ceiling budget diy project doing in this way will be a different story, actually today's tube amp almost all in hybrid by the DC low voltage filament supply and regulator in silicon
tony ma
I second you advice. Just for the fun I have once connected a Pathos TT (30Watt) to my hungry Soundlab A1 Px's and was rewarded with one of the most beautiful sounds these speakers are capable, plenty of the pace of the real thing. Unhappily much more power was needed for most types of music and their big mono cousins, the Adrenalin, are really expensive.
I had an Acustic Plan Sitar integrated hybrid amp... Great amp by the way... But the SS section won all over the design in terms of sonic signature. Not sure if all hybrids designs behave that way thou.
We usually think of hybrid amps as having tubed input/driver stages and SS output stages but what about those that are the other way around like say the amps by Kron? Can anybody give more examples of these types that are solid state upfront and tubes out back?
Hey Bob, you're an ARC owner right? I had this nagging memory in the back of my head about an ARC amp a golf buddy owns that he said was SS input tubed output. Turned out they were the M-100s and that there was a more powerful version offered later the M-300. I'd love to know what was in WZJ's head when he was designing these and what he thought of the outcome. It would be a pity if they were discontinued only because the market was too set in either tubes or SS to appreciate them. It might make for an interesting piece. Timely as I think a lot of the barriers between camps are eroding.
I have been using a Counterpoint NPS-400 for many years and love it. I have been planning a more simplified system for when I downsize in the next few years and Pathos Integrated units are high on my wish list. I have also used Tube Pre w/SS Amps for many years before my VAC CP setup.
My fully customized pair of Counterpoint NP220s is the best of both worlds for me and sounds nothing like the murky SA-20/220 old versions. It's an entirely different circuit that became Mike Elliott's Aria amp design (see the Counterpoint WBF forum for pics). I wouldn't part with these any more than I would my ARC Reference 40 Anniversary preamp which in fact is a terrific match for them. Not really the traditional tube sound and certainly not solid state. You can tailor the sound most any way you want by changing the input tubes and the pre-driver resistors. Bill Thalmann called the sound of the one he built for me "lovely". Amps are 220watts/channel into 8 ohms and over 400 into 4 so they'll drive most anything. I'm somewhat surprised there aren't more hybrid amps designs in the market today.
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