Full Limited Edition Aries Cerat System Build and World Exclusive LEGEND Series!

[morricab]

IMHO (not a fact, just on opinion ) listening to many systems is enjoyable and we can learn about the limits of equipment and sound reproduction, but is of little use to know in detail about equipment. It can help to learn about our preferences if we do not have a firm idea on them.

Again IMHO there are no "best" rules to assemble a system. The variables are too many. We must find some equipment we trust in our minds and get it at home. Then move on assembling a system.

Most high-end equipment has excellent sound quality. A good part of it not compatible with our preferences and way of life. IMHO if you have to travel a lot to listen you should consider such equipment with care - a good friend just spent more than 100k in a complete system and is now waiting in silence for a visit of the seller in June to solve a problem. And yes, he traveled to listen to it ...

One statement in this post from you I would disagree with:

"Most high-end equipment has excellent sound quality."

IME, most high-end equipment has rather mediocre sound quality despite the high price, which is primarily for luxury purposes. Very little of it sounds remotely real, even with the best recordings.

 

[Zero000]

One statement in this post from you I would disagree with:

"Most high-end equipment has excellent sound quality."

IME, most high-end equipment has rather mediocre sound quality despite the high price, which is primarily for luxury purposes. Very little of it sounds remotely real, even with the best recordings.

Excellent post. I 100% agree with you. I was going to say something similar.

Your job, as a consumer, is to make sure you realise morricab's point, and make sure you don't get ripped off, or more accurately rip yourself off through ignorance.

The simple fact is it is as morricab says it is.

However, if you want to pay for matters that aren't really related to sound quality you are obviously free to do so. There's no denying that visual appearance counts and a lot more so to some than others. Many will buy with their eyes and some more so than with their ears.

 

[microstrip]

One statement in this post from you I would disagree with:

"Most high-end equipment has excellent sound quality."

IME, most high-end equipment has rather mediocre sound quality despite the high price, which is primarily for luxury purposes. Very little of it sounds remotely real, even with the best recordings.

Your experience produced an easy generic nameless accusation that IMHO only shows you have a different view of the aims of sound reproduction and a somewhat myopic vision of audio.

And yes, all goes back to the limitations of stereo and the illusion.

 

[morricab]

Your experience produced an easy generic nameless accusation that IMHO only shows you have a different view of the aims of sound reproduction and a somewhat myopic vision of audio.

And yes, all goes back to the limitations of stereo and the illusion.

I have no idea what you mean by "Your experience produced an easy generic nameless accusation that IMHO only shows you have a different view of the aims of sound reproduction". Do you want me to name names? I doubt you would be happy with the list...

If by myopic you mean that only the sound quality counts to me, then I guess, you are right I am myopic and care littel about the aesthetic beauty of a piece of gear.

 

[microstrip]

I have no idea what you mean by "Your experience produced an easy generic nameless accusation that IMHO only shows you have a different view of the aims of sound reproduction". Do you want me to name names? I doubt you would be happy with the list...

If by myopic you mean that only the sound quality counts to me, then I guess, you are right I am myopic and care littel about the aesthetic beauty of a piece of gear.

No, on the contrary I would be very happy to see your list of mediocre sounding items - it would be very easy to see that that are not MOST, and any one owning them and having built or listened great sounding systems using them could argue your negative statement.

And by myopic I was meaning someone who can not see that others have different preferences.

 

[zerostargeneral]

This could be a great thread If it really got to the point;most high end is junk.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

I would argue there are three categories:

1) Luxury
2) Great gear

3) Aries Cerat "Your Perception About High End is About to Change"

 

[morricab]

I would argue there are three categories:

1) Luxury
2) Great gear

3) Aries Cerat "Your Perception About High End is About to Change"

+100

 

[spiritofmusic]

No “hiding the Aries Cerat light under a bushel”, it appears.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

No “hiding the Aries Cerat light under a bushel”, it appears.

No sir. If you have watched Thor Ragnarok I will paraphrase a line:

"Aries Cerat like raging fire, audio industry like smoldering fire....."

 

[morricab]

No, on the contrary I would be very happy to see your list of mediocre sounding items - it would be very easy to see that that are not MOST, and any one owning them and having built or listened great sounding systems using them could argue your negative statement.

And by myopic I was meaning someone who can not see that others have different preferences.

Oh, I see just fine others have different preferences...however, in the high end preferences are often based on things other than purely sonic considerations...thus the lack of quality sound in most systems. Too many buy with the eye and confuse it with the ear.

I won't list simply because, as you have pointed out, that no matter which gear I list at least someone has bought that gear and likes it and will take exception to my listing it. I generalized because, IMO, most of what I have heard is ranging from mediocre kind of musical to amusical crap...both in peoples homes, in shows and in dealers showrooms. IMO, you are too apologetic for most gear always saying it depends, it depends, it depends. I disagree. You should be able to evaluate the overall quality rather quickly and then drill into the details of cause and effect. However, I have found that the majority of even experienced audiophiles cannot do this well...then you expect them to build a good sounding system at home?? Experience is not a substitute for having a clue.

I have gone into homes of a MANUFACTURER where they had a huge channel imbalance in their system and they never realized it until my (ex)girlfriend and I pointed it out. A bit embarrassing I would say... I have been in the home of a 30-year audiophile where he had no idea about a 10db dip in the presence region in his speakers...took me 2 minutes of listening and I told him to break out a SPL meter and we found it right away with a simple frequency sweep...he had the speakers for several months by that time...and the guy before who had them (I know him too) never picked it up either. I could go on with such experiences...like almost magical transformations swapping out an inferior amp for a great amp and the up-to-that-point-in-time non-audiophile mouthing a great big "OHHHH" when they clearly heard what sounded like music rather than a sound effects generator. They went from zero to full audiophile rig in one purchase...and to this day have one of the more enjoyable systems I know and didn't spend a fortune getting it.

If you go to a show or a dealer and hear mostly crap sound, IMO, it is mostly because the majority of gear is crap. I am tired of hearing oh it was the room, the room, the room. I have managed to get GREAT sound from so called "difficult" rooms. If you start with the right ingredients, it is hard to mess it up...just like cooking.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

No, on the contrary I would be very happy to see your list of mediocre sounding items - it would be very easy to see that that are not MOST, and any one owning them and having built or listened great sounding systems using them could argue your negative statement.

And by myopic I was meaning someone who can not see that others have different preferences.

+1000

 

[andromedaaudio]

Morricab do you have pics of your audiosystem?

 

[microstrip]

(...) I won't list simply because, as you have pointed out, that no matter which gear I list at least someone has bought that gear and likes it and will take exception to my listing it. (...)

And probably this "someone" will have much higher credibility than you or me in this forum ...

I generalized because, IMO, most of what I have heard is ranging from mediocre kind of musical to amusical crap...both in peoples homes, in shows and in dealers showrooms.

Again, either you are very unlucky or have a very different preference from most audiophiles, designers, manufacturers or dealers. Or simply a pessimistic approach to the hobby.

IMO, you are too apologetic for most gear always saying it depends, it depends, it depends. I disagree. You should be able to evaluate the overall quality rather quickly and then drill into the details of cause and effect. However, I have found that the majority of even experienced audiophiles cannot do this well...then you expect them to build a good sounding system at home?? Experience is not a substitute for having a clue.
(...)

No, I am not apologetic at all - although I have not listened to everything, I am addressing gear that I listened sounding really great. And yes, it seems I (and 99.99% of WBF members) "do not have a clue". How should we get it?

 

[Tango]

+1000

+1,000 and one.

 

[morricab]

And probably this "someone" will have much higher credibility than you or me in this forum ...



Again, either you are very unlucky or have a very different preference from most audiophiles, designers, manufacturers or dealers. Or simply a pessimistic approach to the hobby.




No, I am not apologetic at all - although I have not listened to everything, I am addressing gear that I listened sounding really great. And yes, it seems I (and 99.99% of WBF members) "do not have a clue". How should we get it?

I am more critical than most and I will leave it at that... Pessimism??? Hardly, I am always eager to hear the latest and greatest...

It would seem perhaps that your finding of a lot of good sounding gear would suggest you are less critical on what constitutes good sound than I am. I am basing on what I hear live and have recorded myself and I don't think you accept live, unamplified as a reference, or?

 

[morricab]

Morricab do you have pics of your audiosystem?

Would this tell you how it sounds??

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Would this tell you how it sounds??

it's all about signal to noise.

judge not, yet yee be judged.....or something like that.

and you make lots of noise (judgments). so 'much' is then expected.

 

[microstrip]

I am more critical than most and I will leave it at that... Pessimism??? Hardly, I am always eager to hear the latest and greatest...

It would seem perhaps that your finding of a lot of good sounding gear would suggest you are less critical on what constitutes good sound than I am. I am basing on what I hear live and have recorded myself and I don't think you accept live, unamplified as a reference, or?

No, I do not accept what you have recorded as a reference - you have described it before. Sorry but I do not consider it as meaningful to sound quality evaluation. I prefer material recorded by professionals with known work and references that has been listened and evaluated by knowledgeable audiophiles and music lovers. But we are moving away, I think our positions concerning gear are now very clear.

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good afternoon to you Gentlemen. Can we steer this thread back to it's topic and lose the off topic posts please?

Thank you.

Tom