Frugal Power

[garylkoh]

While following another thread where Myles talked about installing a $210 power receptacle and the benefits it brought I thought of frugal audiophile, and what he can do. Note I have not declared that there is any measurable difference. If you don't believe that power cords, plugs and receptacles make a sonic difference, I respect that and I am not trying to convince you.

An alternative to expensive high-end plugs and receptacles is to change all your receptacles and plugs to US hospital grade. They are easily available where electricians buy parts - Grainger is my source.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Straight-Blade-3D285?Pid=search

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Insulgrip-Plug-5A076?Pid=search

Hospital grade is denoted by a green dot on the device. They are specified to grip better so that a nurse tripping over the ventilator power cord is less likely to pull it out of the wall. They are also more corrosion resistant, splash resistant, etc. Not as good as the marine grade plugs and receptacles. Now, if only marine hospital grade exists.....

They may not be as good as the Furutech Rhodium plugs and receptacles which I use, but they are quite a big step up from the standard stuff that are in the wall. With the better grip, big heavy power cords are less likely to fall out and you'd get a better contact on the terminals. What seems strange is the hospital grade receptacles seem to be installed upside-down. The earth pin is on top, whereas the earth pin is usually on the bottom. Having installed them both ways, it seems to sound better to me when the earth pin is up.

If you think that expensive carbon fiber/metal plates to damp resonance also make a big difference, a heavy brass floorbox cover seems to "make the blacks more blacks".

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Brass-Floor-3D443?Pid=search

 

[garylkoh]

Continuing on the theme of frugal power, there are a couple of affordable solutions. The first of these is an isolation transformer. An audiophile solution might cost in the thousands, so a hospital-grade isolation transformer, is not cheap, but is a great bang-for-the-buck solution.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=840&txtModelID=705

A secondary effect of an isolation transformer is that it is a very low-impedance sink. Even if you don't plug your equipment into the transformer, plugging it into the outlet next to your equipment also yields some protection if the impedance of the transformer inside your gear is higher than the impedance of the isolation transformer.

I would plug my source components into the isolation transformer, but not power amplifiers even if they are rated much lower than the isolation transformer. You would need to over-rate the isolation transformer by at least 10 times for power amps.

 

[Occam]

Some folks, including myself, subjectively prefer the unplated specification grade version HBL5262-
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Straight-Blade-6C600?Pid=search
to the HBL8200 hospital grade receptacles which are nickel plated. YMMV

The 20amp versions of these receptacles are HBL5362 and HBL8300 respectively.

Medical isolation transformers provide 'isolated' power, floating, unreferenced to ground. This is typically a code violation, not approved for residential use around receptacles that are referenced to ground. One could simply re-bond the appropriate [to maintain phase] the appropriate secondary lead to safety ground to re-establish a proper neutral, as is done in non medical use isolation transformers.

 

[Bill Hart]

Some folks, including myself, subjectively prefer the unplated specification grade version HBL5262-
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HUBBELL-WIRING-DEVICEKELLEMS-Straight-Blade-6C600?Pid=search
to the HBL8200 hospital grade receptacles which are nickel plated. YMMV

The 20amp versions of these receptacles are HBL5362 and HBL8300 respectively.

Medical isolation transformers provide 'isolated' power, floating, unreferenced to ground. This is typically a code violation, not approved for residential use around receptacles that are referenced to ground. One could simply re-bond the appropriate [to maintain phase] the appropriate secondary lead to safety ground to re-establish a proper neutral, as is done in non medical use isolation transformers.

Occam:are you saying the tripplites, such as Gary identified, are set up as balanced and are not just plug and play in a normal residential environment?

 

[Bill Hart]

Oh, and for what it's worth, Albert Porter sells an unplated Hubbell hospital grade receptacle that is cryro'd at about the same price. No affiliation with Albert, other than that i like him!

 

[Occam]

Occam:are you saying the tripplites, such as Gary identified, are set up as balanced and are not just plug and play in a normal residential environment?

No, isolated medical power is not the same as balanced (technical) power.
http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2007/07/isolated-power-systems-in-health-care-facilities/
In the former, 'isolated' power is floating, the output from a transformer secondary with neither of those 2 wires (that measure 120 vac between them in North America, and typically 240vac elsewhere) bonded to ground, establishing a neutral leg, as in typical ac power. In balanced/technical power, that secondary has a center tap bonded to ground so that in N.A. measure 120vac between them, and 60vac between either leg and ground.

 

[Bill Hart]

No, isolated medical power is not the same as balanced (technical) power.
http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2007/07/isolated-power-systems-in-health-care-facilities/
In the former, 'isolated' power is floating, the output from a transformer secondary with neither of those 2 wires (that measure 120 vac between them in North America, and typically 240vac elsewhere) bonded to ground, establishing a neutral leg, as in typical ac power. In balanced/technical power, that secondary has a center tap bonded to ground so that in N.A. measure 120vac between them, and 60vac between either leg and ground.

Thanks for the reply Occam. I appreciate that distinction. It does sound like the medical isolation transformers (or the components plugged into them) would not be grounded in any sense?

 

[Occam]

Whart,

The safety ground is still there on the output receptacle of a medical (floating output) isolation transformer, so if one plugs a Class III appliance (one requiring a safety grounded chassis) into it, that chassis will be grounded, assuming the wall receptacle that the isolation transformer is plugged into has a proper safety ground connection.

 

[Bill Hart]

Whart,

The safety ground is still there on the output receptacle of a medical (floating output) isolation transformer, so if one plugs a Class III appliance (one requiring a safety grounded chassis) into it, that chassis will be grounded, assuming the wall receptacle that the isolation transformer is plugged into has a proper safety ground connection.

Thank you, Occam.

 

[garylkoh]

Looks like Occam has tried this route too..... he is correct in all points.

The unplated hospital grade outlet he linked to seems to work best with unplated plugs. The nickel plated one plus the plug that has one leg nickel plated sounds best to me as a combination.

The hospital isolation transformer provides ungrounded neutral. Safety ground is still there. In some equipment, this also helps isolate signal ground from the chassis.... It's not code, but with your source components, give it a try.

Occam, I haven't had any problems with everything I've tried so far. Have you had any experience with the hospital isolation transformer good or bad? I'm not a big fan of balanced power.....

 

[Occam]

Gary,

You're correct, I do favor un-plated mains ac connectors. Those preferring plated connectors might well find the plated hospital grade receptacles more to their liking than the unplated specification grade Hubbells. Whenever I conclude that some bespoke plated receptacle isn't to my liking, inevitably I'll hear a system using that very receptacle and think the system fantastic. As Whart pointed out Albert Porter sells a cryoed un-plated Hospital receptacle based on the compact Hubbell HBL8300H for under $50, and both Jena Labs and AucioExcellenceAZ offer competently cyoed HBL5362 spec grade receptacles for $50.

Your suggestion of using isolation transformers for source components is excellent. On Ebay one can get them for pennies on the retail dollar. Medical versions are available from Tripplite, Dale, Toroid Corp, and non medical versions from PowerVar, OneAC, Topaz, Tripplite, etc... While far more expensive, purpose built filters are IMO far preferable. But if one doesn't want to spend far more, isolation transformers on Ebay provide a great frugalphile alternative. Its always preferable to light a single candle than curse the darkness....

As to the code prohibition of mixing medical isolated power with ground referenced standard mains power, the probability of danger only manifests itself in rare fault conditions. Regardless, its always best to observe applicable electrical code, if only for liability and insurance purposes.

Regards,
Paul

 

[Btselect]

I good bang for the buck receptacle is the Leviton 5362-I which I purchased at Home Depot many years ago, non-plated and cheaper than the hospital grade ones but with the same tight grip on the plugs and will pass code.

 

[DACMan]

I'm missing the part about the audible benefit of using isolated power. I think people tend to obsess WAY too much about this subject. If, when the music isn't playing, at normal volume level, you don't hear little noises in the background, and you don't hear an annoying hum, then you don't HAVE a noise problem.... stop worrying and spend your money on equipment (or CDs).

Things like isolation transformers, and line filters, are intended to solve specific problems. If you don't HAVE those problems, then you are just wasting your money solving problems you don't have. It's like taking penicillin when you aren't sick; adding an isolation transformer can, in some cases, actually CAUSE a hum problem. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

On another subject.... What, pray tell, is "cryogenically treating" an outlet supposed to do?
Which electrical characteristic (one that matters to nasty, icky, AC power) is it supposed to improve?

DACMan

 

[opus111]

If, when the music isn't playing, at normal volume level, you don't hear little noises in the background, and you don't hear an annoying hum, then you don't HAVE a noise problem.... stop worrying and spend your money on equipment (or CDs).

I'm not so sure - noise on mains IME causes degradation by intermodulation. Audio frequencies have a pretty hard time getting across trafo capacitances of a few hundred pF (typically, not including poweramps) so they're unlikely to be audible directly. However RF noise whizzes across such capacitances and creates audible hash only when music is playing through intermodulation.

Things like isolation transformers, and line filters, are intended to solve specific problems. If you don't HAVE those problems, then you are just wasting your money solving problems you don't have.

I've built my own line filters - they make a difference. What's not to like for such a cheap BOM? - a few chokes and one or two caps. A real bargain. I've also played with isolation trafos for balanced mains and they're much more expensive for little or no benefit.

 

[DACMan]

I agree, and disagree, with you there.

The power coming in off the grid is pretty nasty - it has all sorts of waveform distortion (meaning harmonic content), noise at all frequencies from RF to DC, and is in general not very nice. (Think of it like "drinkable water" - a lot of which doesn't taste very good even though it won't kill you.)

One of my problems with this subject is that the job of a power supply is to convert the AC line power into whatever voltages the device which it is part of needs. In the process a power supply is supposed to eliminate all the noise, and anything else that doesn't belong... that is "the design spec" for a power supply. The point here is that the power supply is supposed to condition the power so that it is clean enough for the device it is part of and, if the device is well designed, it, in turn, should be designed to NOT be sensitive to anything the power supply lets through. This means that, if the device is well designed, including the power supply, and the designer isn't stupid, then it shouldn't NEED extra help unless your power line is for some reason extraordinarily bad (like, maybe, running off a generator in the Alaskan wilderness).

Now, in the real world, everybody has "economic considerations", so some equipment ends up not having as much line filtering as it should have.... just be clear that, if you buy it a separate line filter, you are spending your money to fix a problem that the engineer who designed the power supply (or the bean counters who pay to build it) have failed to handle properly. Now, if you got a really good piece of gear cheap because it sounds good but has a lousy power supply, then all well and good..... but, if it's an expensive piece of gear, then I would say "'you got took".

I agree entirely with you that there are "economies" here, and that a decent line filter (whether it's DIY or a good commercial unit) isn't a big deal - and may help some equipment. I also agree that some equipment may well be affected by various types of interference that, while themselves inaudible, may degrade the sound. Honestly, though, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as the purveyors of many fancy power conditioners would have you think.... and it's certainly NOT "all-present". I really hate this PRESUMPTION that a power filter will help ANY piece of equipment sound better. This is bunk. If you have a problem, then a decent filter is the proper way to fix it, but don't assume that you have a problem, and certainly don't assume that a power filter will automatically make any piece of equipment sound better.

The other huge problem I have with this subject is that many companies who SELL "power conditioners" are simply selling you snake oil. I would say that half of the power conditioners out there are claiming to fix problems that don't exist; half of them are simply not technically valid designs at all (they don't do what they say they will); and half of them probably do more harm than good (there is some overlap, so that still leaves room for some legitimate ones). In particular, NO power cord will remove noise from a line that is already noisy (unless it contains an actual filter). ALL of the cables that claim to remove noise by some fancy cable weave, exotic insulation material, or exotic metal composition, are snake oil - plain and simple. There are many "reputable" companies selling fancy cables that, if they were in any regulated industry, would have been jailed for fraud years ago.... which makes this one area where you have to be VERY careful, and start out with some technical knowledge (which you clearly have), or you WILL get taken for an expensive ride.

Your experience with isolation transformers is a great case in point. There are some few pieces of equipment that are very sensitive to grounds, and some of them may actually benefit by being connected to an isolation transformer - while it makes others worse, and makes no difference to most. Which obviously means that, if you don't have the problem, simply buying a transformer "hoping for some sort of improvement in sound" would be expensive, pointless, and would quite possibly actually buy you worse sound.

It seems to me like there's an awful lot of superstition lately, and a lot of people buying this crap "because they read somewhere that it'll make my system sound better".... and I HATE that..

I'm not so sure - noise on mains IME causes degradation by intermodulation. Audio frequencies have a pretty hard time getting across trafo capacitances of a few hundred pF (typically, not including poweramps) so they're unlikely to be audible directly. However RF noise whizzes across such capacitances and creates audible hash only when music is playing through intermodulation.



I've built my own line filters - they make a difference. What's not to like for such a cheap BOM? - a few chokes and one or two caps. A real bargain. I've also played with isolation trafos for balanced mains and they're much more expensive for little or no benefit.

 

[LL21]

I agree, and disagree, with you there.

The power coming in off the grid is pretty nasty - it has all sorts of waveform distortion (meaning harmonic content), noise at all frequencies from RF to DC, and is in general not very nice. (Think of it like "drinkable water" - a lot of which doesn't taste very good even though it won't kill you.)

One of my problems with this subject is that the job of a power supply is to convert the AC line power into whatever voltages the device which it is part of needs. In the process a power supply is supposed to eliminate all the noise, and anything else that doesn't belong... that is "the design spec" for a power supply. The point here is that the power supply is supposed to condition the power so that it is clean enough for the device it is part of and, if the device is well designed, it, in turn, should be designed to NOT be sensitive to anything the power supply lets through. This means that, if the device is well designed, including the power supply, and the designer isn't stupid, then it shouldn't NEED extra help unless your power line is for some reason extraordinarily bad (like, maybe, running off a generator in the Alaskan wilderness).

Now, in the real world, everybody has "economic considerations", so some equipment ends up not having as much line filtering as it should have.... just be clear that, if you buy it a separate line filter, you are spending your money to fix a problem that the engineer who designed the power supply (or the bean counters who pay to build it) have failed to handle properly. Now, if you got a really good piece of gear cheap because it sounds good but has a lousy power supply, then all well and good..... but, if it's an expensive piece of gear, then I would say "'you got took".

I agree entirely with you that there are "economies" here, and that a decent line filter (whether it's DIY or a good commercial unit) isn't a big deal - and may help some equipment. I also agree that some equipment may well be affected by various types of interference that, while themselves inaudible, may degrade the sound. Honestly, though, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as the purveyors of many fancy power conditioners would have you think.... and it's certainly NOT "all-present". I really hate this PRESUMPTION that a power filter will help ANY piece of equipment sound better. This is bunk. If you have a problem, then a decent filter is the proper way to fix it, but don't assume that you have a problem, and certainly don't assume that a power filter will automatically make any piece of equipment sound better.

The other huge problem I have with this subject is that many companies who SELL "power conditioners" are simply selling you snake oil. I would say that half of the power conditioners out there are claiming to fix problems that don't exist; half of them are simply not technically valid designs at all (they don't do what they say they will); and half of them probably do more harm than good (there is some overlap, so that still leaves room for some legitimate ones). In particular, NO power cord will remove noise from a line that is already noisy (unless it contains an actual filter). ALL of the cables that claim to remove noise by some fancy cable weave, exotic insulation material, or exotic metal composition, are snake oil - plain and simple. There are many "reputable" companies selling fancy cables that, if they were in any regulated industry, would have been jailed for fraud years ago.... which makes this one area where you have to be VERY careful, and start out with some technical knowledge (which you clearly have), or you WILL get taken for an expensive ride.

Your experience with isolation transformers is a great case in point. There are some few pieces of equipment that are very sensitive to grounds, and some of them may actually benefit by being connected to an isolation transformer - while it makes others worse, and makes no difference to most. Which obviously means that, if you don't have the problem, simply buying a transformer "hoping for some sort of improvement in sound" would be expensive, pointless, and would quite possibly actually buy you worse sound.

It seems to me like there's an awful lot of superstition lately, and a lot of people buying this crap "because they read somewhere that it'll make my system sound better".... and I HATE that..

speaking for myself...i got a 'high quality power conditioner' (Transp Audio Ref Power Conditioner) for a few more practical reasons: i needed the outlets. i wanted surge protection, and i did not feel like sticking my equipment into a $30 powerstrip and melting it. I have done that with a Nordost Thor when dealer told me 'unlimited power handling'...and he was wrong. And the power does go out here at least 1-2/year. Once, i have had the fuses in my Velodyne sub (the only one without power conditioning given its location across the room)...actually explode into shards inside.

That said, i did find an improvement in sound...i would not have paid this kind of money for just the improvement...i paid for the surge protection and ability to plug in more components.

 

[NorthStar]

speaking for myself...i got a 'high quality power conditioner' (Transp Audio Ref Power Conditioner) for a few more practical reasons: i needed the outlets. i wanted surge protection, and i did not feel like sticking my equipment into a $30 powerstrip and melting it. I have done that with a Nordost Thor when dealer told me 'unlimited power handling'...and he was wrong. And the power does go out here at least 1-2/year. Once, i have had the fuses in my Velodyne sub (the only one without power conditioning given its location across the room)...actually explode into shards inside.

That said, i did find an improvement in sound...i would not have paid this kind of money for just the improvement...i paid for the surge protection and ability to plug in more components.

---- Dispendieux (expensive) Lloyd?

 

[LL21]

---- Dispendieux (expensive) Lloyd?

Oui, malheureusement, tres cher!...comme aucune piece de Transparent Audio. Mais apres avoir completement casse mon Nordost Thor, j'ai decide a acheter le Transparent qui donne une guarantie pour 5 ans. Desole pour mon terrible francais. Il y a presque 30 ans que j'ai prends des cours au lycee!

 

[NorthStar]

----

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Oui, malheureusement, tres cher!...comme aucune piece de Transparent Audio. Mais apres avoir completement casse mon Nordost Thor, j'ai decide a acheter le Transparent qui donne une guarantie pour 5 ans. Desole pour mon terrible francais. Il y a presque 30 ans que j'ai prends des cours au lycee!

Then I would say you did very well at the Lycee. I wouldn't ever embarrass myself by openly writing in French.