Wish I could go. Quintessence is a great dealership. They should have a wonderful demo. Frank, do you know what will be in the rest of the system in the Q7II room?
First Listen: Magico Q7 Mk.II - An Unexpected New Direction for Magico
- Thread starter mauidan
- Start date
Wish I could go. Quintessence is a great dealership. They should have a wonderful demo. Frank, do you know what will be in the rest of the system in the Q7II room?
Aesthetix Atlas Signature Monos, Pass Xs Preamp and Clearaudio Statement Turnntable
Last edited:
No perfect speakers.
There's no perfect speaker. Each is simply a collection of compromises. Even the wonderful Vivid Giya T26 tweeter isn't perfect. It DOES ring at 9.6khz which can be seen in the measurements for the G1 and the G3 when JA measured it. I still agree that it's a wonderful speaker, but all speakers have their warts. You can also see the ringing show up in the listening window measurement JA did on the G3 below.
There's no perfect speaker. Each is simply a collection of compromises. Even the wonderful Vivid Giya T26 tweeter isn't perfect. It DOES ring at 9.6khz which can be seen in the measurements for the G1 and the G3 when JA measured it. I still agree that it's a wonderful speaker, but all speakers have their warts. You can also see the ringing show up in the listening window measurement JA did on the G3 below.
I think you bring up some very good points here. Why indeed did RH NOT hear the "hot" top end. That question could also be asked of other reviewers who have not, or cannot, hear the "ringing" of the old Wilson tweet or the "HOT" Beryllium dome in the Magico's and the Focals. One could also ask, what about all the other wrinkles and faults that all gear elicits? IMHO, the a'phile should be very concerned when he/she reads a review that is hyperbole full and then within a short period of time, said reviewer is faulting the old model and waxing again about the new model. A great example being the many hyperbole laden reviews of the old ARC REf 120...so many positives flying around and so much hyperbole, that any one new to the hobby would think that this amp had to be the second coming, LOL
Then we get to read a review of the newer ARC Ref 150 wherein the reviewer states: " the old Ref 120's faults with loss of information, a general haze, and weakness in the bottom octave have all been ameliorated here"....what the heck!!
BTW, I agree with the statement about the Vivid G1's...superb sounding speaker ( the tweeter, even though it is a metal dome is just a pleasure to listen to, no ringing or anything else untoward).
Last edited:
These must be the same guys that produces best sound at the show with Focal speakers last year (same electronics and same room I believe).
DaveyF....
how come you don't hear the ringing on the G1 tweeter
I'm sure everyone will hear it once Dickie comes up with a mkII model.
DaveyF....
how come you don't hear the ringing on the G1 tweeter
That's a great question, Steve. Usually metal domes are known to have this problem. However, with the G1's I was not noticing anything awry. Perhaps the speaker wasn't eliciting this issue when I heard it....matched with Luxman gear. Or, maybe my hearing has began to slack off...
OTOH, I suspect that the speaker just wasn't ringing in the high frequencies....all the other listeners and reviewer's who have heard it ( and whose ears I trust) don't hear the ringing either. Unfortunately, all of the same people who I am referring to, do hear the issues with the Magico, Focal and Wilson ( Focal) tweets, just like I do.
BTW, I visited Alma music yesterday, and was treated again to a listen to the Evolution Acoustics MM Micro One's. The tweet with the music they were playing just about blew my ears off!!
The other listener ( who was auditioning the speakers...I was was looking at the vinyl) commented that they were incredibly BRIGHT!! as he covered his ears in alarm, LOL. With that speaker, IF you get it wrong....watch out!BTW, I visited Alma music yesterday, and was treated again to a listen to the Evolution Acoustics MM Micro One's. The tweet with the music they were playing just about blew my ears off!!
I had thought this MM Micro One was the speaker that one owner greatly preferred over his original Magico Q7? I've never heard anything about a bright presentation with the EA before.
Nice. They used Sera Una Noche - Nublado to showcase what that system was capable of. I still have a clear recollection of what it sounded like, so it will be intesting to hear how the Magico's stack up against the Focal (all else being equal).
don't blame the messenger. sometimes an under $5k speaker gets mated to 'let's say not refined' gear. or marginal set-up, or both.
many/most of us here have heard the MM Micro One's at shows multiple times with quality gear and know how it can and should sound. I've spent hours with that speaker, set them up at shows, and set them up for my brother-in-law who loves his MM Micro One's.
no doubt that the tweeter and mid in the MM Micro One's are very detailed (which allows it to 'play' so far above it's price point) and like any speaker does require reasonable set-up, room treatment and matching gear. and the music might be part of the equation. and then there are always those listeners who prefer a neutered tweeter or 'tubey' electronics to begin with which is a personal taste issue. one man's edgy/bright can be another man's detailed and extended. or maybe even a matter of listening position or even listening height.
the MM Micro One's do require a bit of current too, so an anemic amplifier could be part of the equation.
I was recently in the room of the gentleman who preferred the presentation of his MM Micro One's to his Q7's and it's a fantastic room and system with the MM7's (he has essentially the same electronics (amp-pre-tt) as I do). I never heard it with the Q7's.
Last edited:
A bit farfetched putting all these tweeters under the same umbrella. There is nothing in common between, the old (or new) Wilson tweeters and the Magico ones. So whatever it is that you are hearing is not “ringing”. In fact when a speaker actually do ring, you apparently do not hear it (Vivid).
There is a different between “voicing” and ringing. If you are used to a speaker that is voiced dark (Sonus Faber), you will think that a natural speaker is bright (ringy??).
The Magico S5 tweeters do not “ring”. In fact, their breakup is so high that the chances of you “aggravating” them is very low. The THD on these tweeters are the lowest in the industry. Just because silk domes are “soft” does not mean that they do not “ring”. To the contrary, due to the fact they are actually operates in a constant “break-up” mode, they do suffer from very high THD. Most of them simply fall apart above 95db (that means, nasty bright glary sound). Have a look at Soundstage THD measurements of any loudspeaker with a silk dome and compare it to the S5. You can start with the YG Acoustics, Verity, etc.
Silk domes ring at a very low frequency. So, it's much easier to build a crossover to eliminate any ringing with silk dome. Of course, silk domes don't extend as far out into the HF as a metal dome. Compromises.
The YG measurement you are talking about was from a speaker almost 10 years old. I've measured mine at 1m with an earthworks m23 from 1khz-8khz in my room and distortion is around -90db, which is world class, IMO.
All the research says that Lateral off-axis linearity is probably THE most important measurement one could use in evaluating a speaker. I've always wondered why Alon likes to design speakers with such a wide baffle. Magico speakers don't have the type of lateral off-axis performance that a Vivid Giya can do.
Yes, one could find fault with any speaker's measured performance. I would rank the importance of THD well below other measurements like amplitude linearity, lateral off-axis and decay time.
Michael.
Last edited:
DaveyF,
First, thanks for stopping by
Unfortunately, I wasn’t in the store, and Fabio wasn’t in as well. But I understand he has already reached out, and invited you to stop by again, so he can properly introduce all the rooms.
Now, on to the MM Micro Ones… I’ve long learned not to dispute what people hear. They hear what they hear. With that said, there are a few things I'd like to mention:
1. That particular room is the only one, out of 6, with no audiophile pretension. At all. It's in the middle of the "record store" portion of the store, and it's supposed to replace those awful "listening stations" that record stores used to have, with broken turntables and crappy amplifiers. So, the intention there was to have a "good enough" sounding setup, for people to pick up records from the bins (that are literally at arms' lenght), and play them, sitting down confortably on a couch.
2. The MM Micro Ones are brand new, and according to everybody that knows them better than we do, they require a lot of break in. Since we have an event next month, where we'd like to show them at their best, we figured we'd leave them burning in in the least "audiophile" of the rooms in the house.
3. That room will actually have a different brand of speaker, not nearly as refined, though not as expensive too, as the Micro Ones. They will “fit” better with the overall theme/purpose of the room/setup.
4. Positioning. The speakers were positioned with convenience and safety in mind, not absolute audiophile performance. They're lined up flat against the wall, and far enough from the bins in order for them to be in a safe spot. They're a bookshelf speaker with stands, and we don't want people tripping over them, while browsing for records. They're positioned just so there's a nice enough solid image in between them.
5. The designer, Kevin, is waiting for them to burn in so he can guide us regarding placement in the various rooms. We also have a pair of MMThrees in a different room, that I'm pretty sure it's sounding way less than optimal. But that's also going through burn-in, and waiting for Kevin's placement work.
6. Partnering gear: $500 turntable, $100 cartridge, $400 phono stage.
Again, sorry for the poor experience, and I hope you can stop by again and have Fabio show you the different rooms/setups.
Thanks,
alexandre
First, thanks for stopping by
Unfortunately, I wasn’t in the store, and Fabio wasn’t in as well. But I understand he has already reached out, and invited you to stop by again, so he can properly introduce all the rooms.
Now, on to the MM Micro Ones… I’ve long learned not to dispute what people hear. They hear what they hear. With that said, there are a few things I'd like to mention:
1. That particular room is the only one, out of 6, with no audiophile pretension. At all. It's in the middle of the "record store" portion of the store, and it's supposed to replace those awful "listening stations" that record stores used to have, with broken turntables and crappy amplifiers. So, the intention there was to have a "good enough" sounding setup, for people to pick up records from the bins (that are literally at arms' lenght), and play them, sitting down confortably on a couch.
2. The MM Micro Ones are brand new, and according to everybody that knows them better than we do, they require a lot of break in. Since we have an event next month, where we'd like to show them at their best, we figured we'd leave them burning in in the least "audiophile" of the rooms in the house.
3. That room will actually have a different brand of speaker, not nearly as refined, though not as expensive too, as the Micro Ones. They will “fit” better with the overall theme/purpose of the room/setup.
4. Positioning. The speakers were positioned with convenience and safety in mind, not absolute audiophile performance. They're lined up flat against the wall, and far enough from the bins in order for them to be in a safe spot. They're a bookshelf speaker with stands, and we don't want people tripping over them, while browsing for records. They're positioned just so there's a nice enough solid image in between them.
5. The designer, Kevin, is waiting for them to burn in so he can guide us regarding placement in the various rooms. We also have a pair of MMThrees in a different room, that I'm pretty sure it's sounding way less than optimal. But that's also going through burn-in, and waiting for Kevin's placement work.
6. Partnering gear: $500 turntable, $100 cartridge, $400 phono stage.
Again, sorry for the poor experience, and I hope you can stop by again and have Fabio show you the different rooms/setups.
Thanks,
alexandre
I have to disagree, with some of your finding, especially the baffle width. In fact the ideal baffle will be infinite in width (but you are right Vivid off off-axis performance are superb, but that is not because of the width but the shape). I find all silk dome extremely "scratchy" and hard sounding at high volume. Even on my Wilson, moving from my old Focal based tweeter - that I admit now was grainy - but always sounded the same at any volume, the new tweeter smoothens was changing with volume.
Interesting...in listening to the new Wilson silk dome, do you find it to your liking at lower volumes in comparison with the older Focal? At what 'approximate' volume level do you feel it becomes 'scratcy' and 'hard sounding'...and at this same volume, how does the older Focal tweeter compare? Most curious if you feel there is a volume level at which you prefer the older Wilson Focal to newer Wilson silk.
It was not a question of preferences, I just felt that the older tweeters sounded pretty much the same at all volumes. The new silk domes, to my ears, harden up as you increase the volume. You could hear that clearly on soprano and trumpets/brass. Not very pleasant. The volume was probably around the 90db peaks at listening position (I do not have them any more so this is form memory). In lower volume they sure sounded smoother than the old tweeters, but also somewhat less exciting or too polite. I did not feel it was the "improvement" everyone is talking about. They are better in some ways, but not as good in others.
Interesting, indeed. I suppose that DW changed to the new Silk dome, because maybe he thought that the old tweeter was superior?? If a good silk dome is harder sounding than a metal dome...all I can say is something is very amiss.
Plus, I can assure you that the "ringing" that I hear in the Focal titanium dome and in some of the beryllium domes ( Focal's primarily) is just that.. ringing. I am certainly NOT alone in this experience, although, i seem to be one of the few that is constantly called out on it...
Remember, there is one thing that all of these tweeters do have in common...they are all metal domes!
I'm pleased that you do NOT hear the Magico S5's tweeter ringing, BUT that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't so.
DaveyF,
First, thanks for stopping by
Unfortunately, I wasn’t in the store, and Fabio wasn’t in as well. But I understand he has already reached out, and invited you to stop by again, so he can properly introduce all the rooms.
Now, on to the MM Micro Ones… I’ve long learned not to dispute what people hear. They hear what they hear. With that said, there are a few things I'd like to mention:
1. That particular room is the only one, out of 6, with no audiophile pretension. At all. It's in the middle of the "record store" portion of the store, and it's supposed to replace those awful "listening stations" that record stores used to have, with broken turntables and crappy amplifiers. So, the intention there was to have a "good enough" sounding setup, for people to pick up records from the bins (that are literally at arms' lenght), and play them, sitting down confortably on a couch.
2. The MM Micro Ones are brand new, and according to everybody that knows them better than we do, they require a lot of break in. Since we have an event next month, where we'd like to show them at their best, we figured we'd leave them burning in in the least "audiophile" of the rooms in the house.
3. That room will actually have a different brand of speaker, not nearly as refined, though not as expensive too, as the Micro Ones. They will “fit” better with the overall theme/purpose of the room/setup.
4. Positioning. The speakers were positioned with convenience and safety in mind, not absolute audiophile performance. They're lined up flat against the wall, and far enough from the bins in order for them to be in a safe spot. They're a bookshelf speaker with stands, and we don't want people tripping over them, while browsing for records. They're positioned just so there's a nice enough solid image in between them.
5. The designer, Kevin, is waiting for them to burn in so he can guide us regarding placement in the various rooms. We also have a pair of MMThrees in a different room, that I'm pretty sure it's sounding way less than optimal. But that's also going through burn-in, and waiting for Kevin's placement work.
6. Partnering gear: $500 turntable, $100 cartridge, $400 phono stage.
Again, sorry for the poor experience, and I hope you can stop by again and have Fabio show you the different rooms/setups.
Thanks,
alexandre
Alexandre, thank you for the explanation.
I was not trying to elicit from you a justification....after all, the shop is new and so is the inventory.
On the contrary, I was- and still am, impressed that such a shop should open at all!!
Nonetheless, the EA MM Micro One's were so unpleasant to listen to, that I would suggest that you put them away until they are broken in, or can show the listener what they can actually do...if this means different up stream gear, then so be it. I have heard these speakers sound a LOT better, the question is...whether the other potential customer that day had also, or was he relying on what he heard at that demo! Let's hope not.
I will definitely stop by again, it's all good.
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |