EVS modified Gustard X20/Gustard X20 thread

[hifial]

I also use HQPlayer and have been using the 2s filters and cpu usage is in the mid-20's when up sampling to DSD512. I didn't get the K version of the processor so I am hesitant to over clock. I also run Windows 10pro. I have heard good things about AO, I'll have to try some day. Here's a screen shot of task manager while playing DSD512

View attachment 27962

You need to see what the load is on each of the Cores are. they may be fine but all it takes is one being maxed or almost maxed out. So if you can check that also.
And you need them all to be less then 60-70%.

If they are fine then it may be your Driver. I would check with Miska/Jussi of HQP to see if HQP has any issues with that Driver. You would be surprised on that.

 

[Quadman]

@hifial, Thank you I just found how to monitor all cores and yes two cores were working very hard, so I checked pipeline in HQP settings, I turned it off for some reason, some note Jussi had in the manual, and that evened out the workload a bit but overall utilization went up to 30%, still pretty good for all that computing. I'll listen a bit and see. I'll also drop Jussi a line on the driver.

You need to see what the load is on each of the Cores are. they may be fine but all it takes is one being maxed or almost maxed out. So if you can check that also.
And you need them all to be less then 60-70%.

If they are fine then it may be your Driver. I would check with Miska/Jussi of HQP to see if HQP has any issues with that Driver. You would be surprised on that.

 

[sundaramn]

Bel canto C5i vs Gustard x20

Hi all,

I have Golden ear Triton one full range speakers, Line magnetic 219ia 845 tube amp and using a Belcanto c5i as DAC only mode. I am using a WD media player and mostly playing ripped music files mp3 and FLAC.

I wanted to update the DAC and was originally going to buy Schiit yaggis but later bought the Gustard x20.
After 6 days of continuous break in Gustard is still behind Bel canto c5i I originally thought i am going to see lot of significant improvement from Gustard x20.

the Bel Canto has a very natural presentation, its not harsh, the musical instruments are nice to hear, not congested. the only thing my bel canto missing was the low end. The bass was not tight or punchy as i was expecting.

the Gustard bass is better. exactly what i was looking for. So i was happy about it out of box and hoping after break in this thing is going to sound like bel canto with good bass that i was missing.
After 6 days, there were slight improvements overall with Gustard but not close to Bel Canto on any of the other aspects.
The Bel Canto c5i is not even a dedicated DAC like Bel Canto 3.7vb from their series. I am wondering now about if i need to look for 3.7 or even 3.5 with vbs from used market.

If i switch to Bel canto its almost like night and day for me... the congestion are all gone. everything is clear, crisp and nice to hear.

Do i need to break in the gustard more?
if i try the tweaks/mode will it help?

Looking forward for your feedback.

Thanks.

 

[Quadman]

Not sure what is going on here. I quickly looked up the bel canto piece but can find no information on the dac chip they used. I find it hard to believe the gustard would be lacking that much behind the Bel Canto. Last week I heard a full level 1 mod gustard playing DSD256 (HQPlayer and Roon) and it was hanging with a SME30 MK2 TT, with a $10K cartridge and $10K phono stage that was just checked by Wally Malewicz of Wally set up tools, I doubt the bel canto could do that. First off I wonder if something is wrong with your dac, second how are your DIY skills? First thing I suggest is to pull of the cover (2mm allen) take out all top screws and loosen the two top screws on the back (this loosens the top enough to remove). Place the short end of the allen into a hole and pry up on the cover. Once open locate the copper/gold cold coax cable that runs from the digital board to the output board, unscrew this (just like a coax cable wall outlet) (mark one end with a black marker for reference). Once it is unscrewed and marked reverse it so the output board end is now on the digital board. Screw it back on and turn on the dac and let it warm up a bit and listen. We have found this cable to be very directional (well the custom made coax's), my guess they just reach in a box and grab one and screw it on. See if this changes anything.

Yes a modded gustard is QUITE a bit BETTER than a stock gustard and in my opinion fully worth the upgrade. As an example this weekend I was prepping my gustard to install a 100mHz clock close to the dac chips. For fitment I removed my custom made silver coax cable and installed the stock screw on coax cable I listened Sunday and Monday evenings and decided I could not bear going backwards in sound quality and last night I soldered the clock in, using the gustards 3.3 V line for power. I have not listened critically yet but once the new chip settled down I could tell it will be a major improvement over the stock coax. The stock coax softened up the leading edges and just misses the little details, unbearable for me after achieving such a high level of playback. Tonight after 24 hour signal burn in I will listen to the new clock and report tomorrow on my findings.

Be well

Bel canto C5i vs Gustard x20

Hi all,

I have Golden ear Triton one full range speakers, Line magnetic 219ia 845 tube amp and using a Belcanto c5i as DAC only mode. I am using a WD media player and mostly playing ripped music files mp3 and FLAC.

I wanted to update the DAC and was originally going to buy Schiit yaggis but later bought the Gustard x20.
After 6 days of continuous break in Gustard is still behind Bel canto c5i I originally thought i am going to see lot of significant improvement from Gustard x20.

the Bel Canto has a very natural presentation, its not harsh, the musical instruments are nice to hear, not congested. the only thing my bel canto missing was the low end. The bass was not tight or punchy as i was expecting.

the Gustard bass is better. exactly what i was looking for. So i was happy about it out of box and hoping after break in this thing is going to sound like bel canto with good bass that i was missing.
After 6 days, there were slight improvements overall with Gustard but not close to Bel Canto on any of the other aspects.
The Bel Canto c5i is not even a dedicated DAC like Bel Canto 3.7vb from their series. I am wondering now about if i need to look for 3.7 or even 3.5 with vbs from used market.

If i switch to Bel canto its almost like night and day for me... the congestion are all gone. everything is clear, crisp and nice to hear.

Do i need to break in the gustard more?
if i try the tweaks/mode will it help?

Looking forward for your feedback.

Thanks.

 

[dr k]

Hi new member on WBF here. This is a very interesting thread, as I have always been interested in DACs that punch way above its price point, but have not found one that comes close to my reference DACs. I currently have a Lampizator Golden Gate DAC and Audial USB DAC with Double Crown chip. I prize natural tonality, imaging/soundstaging, and dynamics. I have yet to hear a Saber chip based DAC based I like. I've always found them to be unnaturally hyperdetailed, and digititis sets in within 5 minutes of listening. Reading this thread, I keep on hearing the mods increases detail. Does anyone feel this increased detail is unnatural or too much? Although Quadman appears to have an excellent TT reference for comparison, I'm still skeptical.

 

[Quadman]

@dr k welcome to the forum. That TT I mention in the thread above is actually my friends TT, I also have the 30MKII with the same arm but only a $5K cartridge and $5K phono stage. His is a notch above mine. I won't say the DSD256 up sampled signal beat the TT. Images were clearly larger with the analog which made the sound stage, to me, sound smaller, kind of like a group huge lets get closer. What clearly stood out in my mind was the bass of the analog it was just more; slam more noticeable and for the most part just excellent, but to the point that on a few tracks I almost thought there was a boost around maybe 100 hz or so. I was wondering why that would be. I know his speakers very well (mine are the same except 1-13" bass unit vs his 2- 10" units) and I have tuned his system since 2008 with audiomatica's Clio system. This time Wally, the speakers designer and good friend of ours, tuned the speakers using the latest clio 11 system. The thing is we tune sending a digitally generated pink noise signal thru clio to the bass units and then confirm tuning with a MLS signal sent thru clio. The bass units use a digital parametric equalizer from Rane and they can play up to 275 hz. We EQ the bass (only) to fit the room, which in his case is HUGE 30x39 ft. We never check a analog vinyl record with pink noise to see how that reads vs the digitally generated clio signals. It's possible with the RiAA curve and the cartridges response that there is a natural boost at apprx 100 Hz. Regardless his analog bass is better than digital bass. Yet when we switched to digital with the full level 1 mod and upsample to DSD256 the images were smaller and tighter focused, the stage expanded in both depth and width with performers also moving in those directions. There may have even been more transparency with the digital signal. My involvement and enjoyment of the music was every bit the same as the analog rig, Kirk thought so too. We did not feel a need to just play vinyl, ever. Both are excellent.

Now your tastes may vary from mine, thou I too value that huge 3D and very palpable soundstage, with natural tonality and dynamics, and I have no experience with your digital components, but in my opinion that little modded gustard at full level 1 and up sampling to DSD256 did not embarrass itself at all against that $50K+ TT. Now last night I finally got to listen to my new accusilicon clock soldered in close to the dac chips after 24 hours with signal burn in. 6 hours of pure digital at DSD512 and no funny noises just blissful music. The new clock, which replaces the coax, is another step forward for the gustard, the glass got cleaner, less distorted, background noise shrunk even further the stage became even larger with solid very palpable images, leading edges were better defined and dynamic contrast was greater. I am very pleased. Now no question images are smaller than analog, maybe smaller than you would like, to me they sound very natural with sustain and decays that rival the best I have ever heard. Simon who posts here occasionally loves his Gustard then he heard a really good DIY Buffalo IIISE DIY dac and realized the Gustard is merely good, not great. Thou he has not heard it at 512 level, then again I have not heard the buffalo rig either. It is not the best dac out there but I have been in this game for over 26 years and today my digital is by far the best it has ever been, considering my total investment in all parts and dac is under $1500 are you kidding me. One very happy camper.

 

[dr k]

Quadman, I appreciate the detailed reply. I'm glad to hear your modded Gustard is just as enjoyable as your TT. That says a lot. I still think a good analogue TT sounds better to me than any DAC out there, but the maintainance and care needed for a TT and vinyl are just too much of a hassle.

I prefer nonoversampling ladder DACs because they sound more analogue to me, all things otherwise being equal. I believe you cannot disable the oversampling feature built in the Sabre DAC chip, which to me is a minus. Otherwise, it is suppose to be a phenomenal chip. I am thinking about getting the Gustard myself and doing some basic mods.

 

[Gladiator]

I recently purchased a Gustard and sent it to Ric for both level one and two mods. Can't wait to get it back and compare it to my Luxman DA 06.

 

[Quadman]

I recently purchased a Gustard and sent it to Ric for both level one and two mods. Can't wait to get it back and compare it to my Luxman DA 06.

Congratulations Gladitor, that will be a serious dac you will be getting back. I would advise making one modification to Ric's level 1 mod that improves the gustard even more. Forget the custom coax cable and have a 100mHz XO clock soldered on the output board near the dac chips and coax tower, there are solder pads there to do this. I have sent Ric pictures of my rig. This is VASTLY superior to the custom coax cable. An easy to source and very good clock is the crystek CCHD-950x from mouser (100 mHz). Simon uses this clock in his gustard and really likes it. I found a accusilicon clock and soldered that one in. Both clocks have low current draw and the gustards internal 3.3Vdc lines can easily power it.

 

[Gladiator]

Congratulations Gladitor, that will be a serious dac you will be getting back. I would advise making one modification to Ric's level 1 mod that improves the gustard even more. Forget the custom coax cable and have a 100mHz XO clock soldered on the output board near the dac chips and coax tower, there are solder pads there to do this. I have sent Ric pictures of my rig. This is VASTLY superior to the custom coax cable. An easy to source and very good clock is the crystek CCHD-950x from mouser (100 mHz). Simon uses this clock in his gustard and really likes it. I found a accusilicon clock and soldered that one in. Both clocks have low current draw and the gustards internal 3.3Vdc lines can easily power it.

Thank you Quadman. I will certainly look into it. I want to mod this DAC to the fullest.

 

[Quadman]

I have been running my gustard at full DSD512 up sampling since late July and just love the sound, a major step up over DSD256. And since early August I have removed my custom silver coax cable and placed a 100 mHz Clock on the output board near the coax tower and was blown away by the improvement of the gustard. For some reason when Gustard designed this dac they decided to place the clock on the far side of the digital board and used a clunky copper based coax cable to carry the signal from the digital board to the output board. Most dac designers place the clock very close to the dac chips, and the mod I (and Simon) did accomplishes this. Then for the past 2 weeks I have powered my new clock with an external 5V psu and a 3.3v trident regulator board near the clock. This takes some load off the gustards internal power supply and helps reduce noise since the external PSU is linear and the trident regulator board is made to minimize power noise for high speed oscillators. This was another nice step up. The Clock mod is very highly recommended and I now say forgo the custom coax and do the clock instead. More transparent, much sharper and defined leading edges (hence more dynamics) larger and even better separated soundstage with solid 3D images. Tonality that I can detect no issues with. Acoustic up close single performers are eerily present. Suffice it to say it is a serious upgrade.

 

[Ric Schultz]

Crystek 950 clock is now part of the level one mod.....thanks to Quadman and Simon for doing this first. I am running it off the stock power supply but I will try a better regulator in the next one (would raise the price some). The Crystek clock gives more extended and cleaner highs.....I am sure I would get even more with a better regulator on it. I do bypass the clock right at its power supply with one of my modded Wima .33 caps to good effect (more warm and natural).

 

[YashN]

I AM IN LOVE!!!!!!!........ with DSD512. The leap from 256 to 512 is much greater than the leap from 128 to 256. I am gobsmacked, grinning ear to ear about my experience last night. It might be the single greatest step forward I have ever experienced in high end audio, and there a been quit a few of those thru the years.

This dac just keeps amazing me, Full Level 1 mod as per Ric, DSD512 card from DIYinHK and external PSU combined with DSD512 playback. I don't know how much $ you would have to spend on a dac to better this. This dac has nothing to be ashamed of against any dac at any price. Seriously if you want to take your Gustard to the next level get in touch with Ric and get the level 1 mod and then hope in the near future the DSD512 DDC's will be more common.

I am in LOVE!!!!!

Very good, Quadman, well done.

 

[Gladiator]

I agree with Quadman. I purchased the Gustard and had Ric Shultz perform level 1 and 2 mods plus the clock upgrade to hear for myself and its very hard to beat the DAC for the price. It sounds really really good. Having said that i had to spend 15x the price to out run the Gustard. The totaldac bug has poisoned me! i will be listing my fully modded Gustard for sale to alleviate some of the financial pain inflicted upon me by the totaldac.

 

[lwr]

I agree with Quadman. I purchased the Gustard and had Ric Shultz perform level 1 and 2 mods plus the clock upgrade to hear for myself and its very hard to beat the DAC for the price. It sounds really really good. Having said that i had to spend 15x the price to out run the Gustard. The totaldac bug has poisoned me! i will be listing my fully modded Gustard for sale to alleviate some of the financial pain inflicted upon me by the totaldac.

fully modded Gustard for sale - SOLD

 

[alecm]

Ric,
any plans to mod A20H(2xAK4497) or x20u pro(2x9028pro) ?

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustar...ifier-double-ak4497eq-xmos-dsd256-384khz.html
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/GUSTARD-DAC-...8-XMOS-USB-384KHZ-DSD64-128-256-/111708547958

 

[Ric Schultz]

The X20U Pro will naturally get modded immediately as it is just an updated machine. The A20H is a mystery until someone seriously A/Bs it with the new Pro unit (both being the same price). Since the X20U is already the best DAC you can buy under $2000 then the new updated X20U Pro machine should be even better (The first person who sends me a Pro unit will get 25% off). Time will tell where the A20H fits in. Obviously, it has a headphone amp and some people might want it for that reason. But most of us want the best two channel speaker sound.....so....we shall see....er hear.

 

[Ric Schultz]

Dacs are being released by several companies right now with the new ESS9028 DAC chip. All of these DACs are $1900 or more and the cheaper ones only have one 9028.....the Gustard at $900 delivered with two 9028s is going to keep this incredible DAC THE under $2000 DAC of choice for those that want transparency. Here are a couple of tid bits about the new chip and why it "sounds" better:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/dac3-introducing-the-new-es9028pro-converter

http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/resonessence/2.html


Gustard X20U Pro shipping now. $899 delivered within 5 working days from order via DHL. Oh boy, here comes the fun!

 

[Ric Schultz]

$60 discount till Dec. 2nd on products from Shenzhenaudio....including the new Pro unit:

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustar...028-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html

 

[MarkK02474]

Received X20u with new ES9028 Pro chips today

My Gustard X20u came today (yes, on a Sunday) via DHL after some shipping delays with history revisionism (backdating of events after the fact when delayed leaving Hong Kong). This was my first time ordering anything directly from China.

Initial impressions: Its heavy. The casework is impressive and well finished, all aluminum with countersunk torx screws. The power cord is short and thin, a throwaway. I would have wished the BOM budget less spent on casework and front power switch (always on, or rear switch) than on a clock board over the DACs, better bypassing of the DAC, and soft recovery rectifiers in the power supplies.

Like any modder, I opened it before ever plugging it in. Yes, it contains the new, dual ES9028Pro DAC chips. All else looks identical to photos. I was able to see all the electrolytic caps are blueish colored Nichicon Muse which I couldn't in photos, or changed from orange ish ones in some.

I just started break-in. All settings on the DAC as from the factory. My transport is an EVS modified Oppo BD-83se with both (unmodified) coax and Toslink outs to try. Using CDs, other than deeper bass, I'm not yet blown away with the Gustard. Ric's output buffer is really good, with details and texture I don't hear yet from the Gustard. He didn't beef up the power supplies in my Oppo, so the deeper and more dynamic bass of the Gustard is no surprise. My ancient (extensively self-modified) Marantz CD63 had some locking glitches while the Oppo had none. I'm hoping for improvement with break-in, upgraded power cord, mods, and higher res source material from my PC using USB. The disk I'm using for testing is CD SF 40436, Pandit Kamalesh Maitra, Trilok Gurtu ?– Tabla Tarang - Melody On Drums, great for imaging and hearing texture of a drum skin. I tried and failed playing a SACD disk on the OPPO - no DSD over coax or Toslink working, perhaps the DSD rate is too high for the Gustard or Oppo not outputting it.