Disturbing "Sonic Trend" showing up on most all current "Big Buck" systems!

[Orb]

If you want to reproduce the actual recording event, or just the same emotion of being there live on some recordings, it is not impossible!

Have a satisfied mind in the end!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO4PtdDp5-0&spfreload=10

Perfection is impossible, but you can get close.

http://www.performancerecordings.com/capturing-music.html

If you go beyond a stereo recording-mastering and stereo speaker setup, you can get closer yes.
There is a reason why multiple channel and front speaker solutions have been recommended over stereo in the past and/with more complex mic arrangement-recording solutions, although these never did get much of a foothold commercially (SACD I guess sort of on that path with some of their best front multichannel releases although mic-recording arrangement solution still a consideration IMO).
Worth mentioning though these recent posts have been around objective and definable aspects to accurate-neutral-transparent-natural-etc; I agree with a lot you say but worth pointing out emotion and connection to the performance/recording does not fall into that criteria, although it is critical as part of the drive to reach best satisfaction-enjoyment for audiophiles (and I would say for many of us in this hobby including myself).

Edit;
Just to add.
Bear in mind these recent posts are coming from a specific context and that is the objectivist perspective of accurate-neutral-natural and view what we listen to should be as close to the original performance, so this post is just an extension of what has been said so far and my point what we listen to is a compromised illusion that has been tweaked anyway.
This was only a small part of the discussion we have had and not the main crux (which was focusing on the difficulty of perceived neutrality in a system due to the complexity of an overall system including speakers and that measurements can be excellent but a component can be perceived as being warm-rich and that does not fit into the description of neutral-accurate for all), albeit it is important in the concept of natural and matching the original performance, this is more complex than simple absolutes IMO anyway.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Joe Whip]

Interesting, I find international flights to be much more comfortable and much more quieter than domestic flights.

Yes there are less kids so that is better, however, the noise generated by the aircraft is just as bad. Plus the flights are longer, with London 6.5 hours away the closest stop in Europe then almost 8 hours back. Have done that trip a few times already this year. First class and business class on BA and AA are comfortable no doubt (one of these days we will try Emirates!), but the noise is still there. And don't get me going on a flight to Australia. I will NOT fly without my head phones. I take an ipad filled with great music and just relax the whole time.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Not sure what type Kal Rubinson uses but I know he has mentioned them several times in the past.

I have? I tend to use ear plugs, not phones, in flight.

 

[Orb]

I have? I tend to use ear plugs, not phones, in flight.

That was what I was talking about in terms of protectors, rather than headphones (seems others use those,which I am not sure is the same thing in terms of protection tbh)
Are your ear plugs just for noise or also for cabin pressure?
I remember you have mentioned the plugs a few times, but not their purpose.
Wondering what your thoughts are on whether cabin pressure could cause long term hearing problems, especially if one has a cold/sinus issues/infection/etc.

Thanks
Orb

 

[PeterA]

That was what I was talking about in terms of protectors, rather than headphones (seems others use those,which I am not sure is the same thing in terms of protection tbh)
Are your ear plugs just for noise or also for cabin pressure?
I remember you have mentioned the plugs a few times, but not their purpose.
Wondering what your thoughts are on whether cabin pressure could cause long term hearing problems, especially if one has a cold/sinus issues/etc.

Thanks
Orb

I broke my eardrum when I was ten years old because of sinus problems during a flight coming home from summer camp. The pain was incredible. It healed itself over time and no issues show up during my hearing tests now, but cabin pressure and colds/sinus issues can certainly be cause for concern.

 

[Orb]

I broke my eardrum when I was ten years old because of sinus problems during a flight coming home from summer camp. The pain was incredible. It healed itself over time and no issues show up during my hearing tests now, but cabin pressure and colds/sinus issues can certainly be cause for concern.

Ah Peter that must had truly sucked
I guess that highlights the cabin pressure combined with noise protection plugs do have a purpose and worth considering, those plugs are not that expensive as well athough I wonder again if it really requires very well designed models rather than the $20 ones I have seen advertised/sold (ignoring the even cheaper $10-$15 ones).
Thanks
Orb

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That was what I was talking about in terms of protectors, rather than headphones (seems others use those,which I am not sure is the same thing in terms of protection tbh)
Are your ear plugs just for noise or also for cabin pressure?
I remember you have mentioned the plugs a few times, but not their purpose.
Wondering what your thoughts are on whether cabin pressure could cause long term hearing problems, especially if one has a cold/sinus issues/infection/etc.

Thanks
Orb

OK. I use conventional plugs with at least 30dB of attenuation for comfort but, fortunately, I do not suffer from cold/sinus issues/infection/etc. I suspect that there is not likely to be any long-term hearing problems from cabin pressure unless there is physical damage to the tympanic membrane or middle ear.

 

[c1ferrari]

Interesting, I find international flights to be much more comfortable and much more quieter than domestic flights.

Particularly if one is flying business or first class :b

 

[Orb]

OK. I use conventional plugs with at least 30dB of attenuation for comfort but, fortunately, I do not suffer from cold/sinus issues/infection/etc. I suspect that there is not likely to be any long-term hearing problems from cabin pressure unless there is physical damage to the tympanic membrane or middle ear.

Thanks Kal.
Cheers.
Orb.

 

[rbbert]

Going way back to the OP, after spending most of 3 days listening to a wide variety of systems in all price ranges, I feel that the sound also has a wide variety, all the way from the worst qualities described in the OP to a recollection of the AR 3a sound of the late '60's. That includes many which were closer to that happy medium of more than adequate detail combined with warmth and comfortable dynamics to result in a truly involving sound, for me at least. JMO.

 

[Atmasphere]

Unnaturally dry bass = "taut" and “tight”

I've been telling people for years that 'tight' bass does not exist in the real world. In the real world it has body and tone. Taut bass seems to be a symptom of over-damped loudspeakers; more than 20:1 is overkill. Some speakers need considerably less.

 

[stehno]

Exaggerated high frequencies and etch = "details"

Biting unnatural attacks = "fast transient response"

Unnaturally dry bass = "taut" and “tight”

This is what I hear at audio shows over the last several years!

Have "new" audiophiles lost their way, in relation to what "natural sound" of "non-amplified acoustic" music sounds like?

This "type" of sound is increasingly selling as current "State of Art".

Audio has more BS, and nonsense, than any hobby that I know of!

And as "Crazy" becomes acceptable, it drives more "Crazy".

I have been in this hobby since the 70's and heard it all.

Maybe those that kept their older systems, and got off the "marry-go-round", of latest and most expensive is best, are the most intelligent!

Excellent post. In perhaps every regard except the "I've heard it all" statement since you've obviously never knocked on my door.

Yes, the overall sound of today's SOTA-level remains rather flat and lifeless, somewhat thin and weak in bass. Speaking of bass, I think it's rather easy for some to confuse "tight" or "taut" bass with weak or thin bass. But I think that's because some will confuse the opposite of a ill-defined, wooly, or rolling like an earthquake type of bass with a tight or taut bass, simply because it's in direct contrast to what they are used to hearing, e.g. ill-defined, wooly, rolling like an earthquake, etc.

 

[amirm]

Speaking of bass, I think it's rather easy for some to confuse "tight" or "taut" bass with weak or thin bass. But I think that's because some will confuse the opposite of a ill-defined, wooly, or rolling like an earthquake type of bass with a tight or taut bass, simply because it's in direct contrast to what they are used to hearing, e.g. ill-defined, wooly, rolling like an earthquake, etc.

Well said. It actually takes a bit to get used to "correct" bass as it at first feels anemic. But further listen shows much detail it brings, and how it stops interfering with higher frequencies and it then becomes a delight to have.

 

[Joe Whip]

The concern I have with this is when I hear an upright or fender bass recording on a a system that sounds "anemic", it is because it is and does not sound like the real thing. The same with full orchestral recordings. IMHO, correct bass should never sound anemic unless what you are used to in a system is truly bloated. To each his own.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

A real kick drum in a room is far from anemic. It is awesome!

 

[andromedaaudio]

I guess part of it comes down to the membrane type that is used for a speaker , a unit just sounds involving or NOT, and so will the speaker , a unit with exxcelent characterics can still sound uninvolving

my favourite bass units the 11 and 12 inch eton, no metal i dont like it no matter how stiff they are

12_680_eton by andromeda61, on Flickr

 

[PeterA]

Well said. It actually takes a bit to get used to "correct" bass as it at first feels anemic. But further listen shows much detail it brings, and how it stops interfering with higher frequencies and it then becomes a delight to have.

That is interesting. This is almost exactly what advocates of Magico say in response to detractors of the brand's bass quality. It takes a while to get used to the sound of correct bass reproduction. But once you do, you realize that it sounds more accurate and it brings more joy to the listening experience.

Amir, you should become a spokesman for Magico speakers. Science and technology are the basis of their designs and the sonic result is what you describe above.

Now that kick drum experience. Explosive dynamics and impact can also be heard with these speakers if set up properly in the right system and room. I've heard it and it can be startling.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The one time i heard the Q 7 i found the bass to gentle it missed sheer impact , but thats just my opinion , it might have been the 90 watts zanden but it left me in doubt a little, besides that great speaker

 

[NorthStar]

That is interesting. This is almost exactly what advocates of Magico say in response to detractors of the brand's bass quality. It takes a while to get used to the sound of correct bass reproduction. But once you do, you realize that it sounds more accurate and it brings more joy to the listening experience.

Amir, you should become a spokesman for Magico speakers. Science and technology are the basis of their designs and the sonic result is what you describe above.

Now that kick drum experience. Explosive dynamics and impact can also be heard with these speakers if set up properly in the right system and room. I've heard it and it can be startling.

:b

 

[Groucho]

If it's a question of bass, I find it strange that the issue of sealed enclosures versus vented is hardly mentioned. The standard line is "Both are capable of excellent performance" or some such, but really only one is capable of being 'correct'. 99% of modern speakers go for 'incorrect'.