DarTZeel and Mcintosh - help in picking amp

[redandgold]

Christoph,
I hope for you, you are not driven from your own history, shifting from amp to amp. For me, I am fortunate enough Hervé takes care for his customers and offers an internal path 458 —> 468 —> 4x8 every ten years and that‘s it. Life can be so easy.

 

[Lagonda]

Christoph,
I hope for you, you are not driven from your own history, shifting from amp to amp. For me, I am fortunate enough Hervé takes care for his customers and offers an internal path 458 —> 468 —> 4x8 every ten years and that‘s it. Life can be so easy.

Yes, all you have to do is take the Red/Gold pill !

 

[Gregadd]

The service between DarTZeel and McIntosh is night and day.

So, too is the sound.
Few audiophile companies can match the bulletproof quality of the products and the stability of the company.

 

[Lagonda]

So, too is the sound.
Few audiophile companies can match the bulletproof quality of the products and the stability of the company.

Or the high prices !

 

[Gregadd]

Or the high prices !

Au contraire mon ami. Their prices are competitive.

 

[christoph]

Or the high prices !

Regarding the prices there are dozens and much worse (price- and soundwise)

 

[redandgold]

Unfortunately fully agree. That’s the price you have to pay if you want the best of the best. Name it Boulder, Ch Precision, Ypsilon, Moon or at the tube family VAC or Kondo.

 

[Lagonda]

Unfortunately fully agree. That’s the price you have to pay if you want the best of the best. Name it Boulder, Ch Precision, Ypsilon, Moon or at the tube family VAC or Kondo.

Yes all truly overpriced products in tight competition for that frivolous audio dollar ! But DartZeel just takes the cake when it comes to cult following and influencer based marketing, starting with him whom can not be mentioned, or he will materialize like "Beetlejuice" !

 

[Lagonda]

Au contraire mon ami. Their prices are competitive.

Yes, you have the whole line-up in your system i suppose !

 

[Audiohertz2]

Maybe Ron can introduce the “Whats Best price “ sister forum ..!

 

[christoph]

Maybe Ron can introduce the “Whats Best price “ sister forum ..!

That would be interesting

 

[redandgold]

Best price is not precise - price absolute or in relation to performance?

But we are drifting farer and farer from the thread topic and the question of germinal… aren‘t we?

 

[christoph]

Best price is not precise - price absolute or in relation to performance?

But we are drifting farer and farer from the thread topic and the question of germinal… aren‘t we?

I think it should be obvious

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Ultimately, it's your money and your listening experience that matters. If you find the Mac sounds better to your ears in a blind test, trust your judgment. I genuinely believe that it takes months to truly appreciate what we like about speakers and amplifiers. Rushed reviews and A/B testing can lead to hasty decisions, which may result in biased outcomes.

In my space, I need several weeks or even months to fully grasp the behaviour and sound of each component. It's almost as if time is required to understand their unique characteristics.

 

[skinnyfla]

Ultimately, it's your money and your listening experience that matters. If you find the Mac sounds better to your ears in a blind test, trust your judgment. I genuinely believe that it takes months to truly appreciate what we like about speakers and amplifiers. Rushed reviews and A/B testing can lead to hasty decisions, which may result in biased outcomes.

In my space, I need several weeks or even months to fully grasp the behaviour and sound of each component. It's almost as if time is required to understand their unique characteristics.

true - but hard to do… nobody will lend a component for months… say you wat to compare darTZeel vs McIntosh… how?

 

[Synaxis]

Yes all truly overpriced products in tight competition for that frivolous audio dollar ! But DartZeel just takes the cake when it comes to cult following and influencer based marketing, starting with him whom can not be mentioned, or he will materialize like "Beetlejuice" !

Although I know not who this forbidden person is that can't be mentioned on a public group is , I do find it interesting how on every audio forum there seems to always be people who throw out phrases such as "overpriced" yet never follow it up with the economic breakdown of what makes up the price of the component that they claim is overpriced.

I'm referencing materials, research time, labor costs, health care costs, payroll taxes, import duties, shipping costs, electricity costs, land and building cost to own/rent/maintain/pay taxes, profit to put back into the business for future operations, profit to the owners, profit to keep money tied up in spare parts and R&D, etc. etc.

I would love for once someone clinging to the life raft of labeling something with the evil "overpriced" label to be able to give us an economic breakdown of that particular company / item to actually JUSTIFY their statement rather than just hurling disparaging emotional arrows with no proof.

Otherwise it just seems like they have ro real factual argument other than a purely unfounded and unprovable emotional reaction.

I've never owned nor heard DZ, but I'd sure love to hear one some day. And heck, I can't even afford it but I'm not offended at the pricing like others seem to be. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

true - but hard to do… nobody will lend a component for months… say you wat to compare darTZeel vs McIntosh… how?

you can if you are sufficiently motivated to know.........you can buy the competitor you are interested in, then for good measure borrow another competitor and spend 4 months comparing 3 high level sets of amplifiers in your system. just put your money where your mouth is. do the friggin work.

the question is do you really want to know? or just discuss it? still, there will be nay sayers and negative nellies no matter what you do. people have their religions. or just prefer to stir the sh*t. the human condition.

here are 1500 posts about when I did it.

ying-and-yang-lamm-ml3-and-dartzeel-458.24906

as far as darTZeel you can also read any of Fremer's amplifier reviews in the last 15 years he has owned darTZeel. most of them include some direct compare. and Jacob Heilbrunn also has owned darTZeel for a few years, you can read his compares. two prominent reviewers with well known systems who could choose any amplifier, but prefer darTZeel......so far. 'cult' following? maybe....but much more than that.

darTZeel is mostly guilty of not being part of the brick and mortar cabal of high end stores who churn upgrade after upgrade. always changing models pushing more boxes. darTZeel models last a decade or longer typically. and their chassis designs never change. great for resale.

so it's not a high flying marketing organization. it does operate under the radar. for that guilty as charged.

 

[skinnyfla]

you can if you are sufficiently motivated to know.........you can buy the competitor you are interested in, then for good measure borrow another competitor and spend 4 months comparing 3 high level sets of amplifiers in your system. just put your money where your mouth is. do the friggin work.

the question is do you really want to know? or just discuss it? still, there will be nay sayers and negative nellies no matter what you do. people have their religions. or just prefer to stir the sh*t. the human condition.

here are 1500 posts about when I did it.

ying-and-yang-lamm-ml3-and-dartzeel-458.24906

as far as darTZeel you can also read any of Fremer's amplifier reviews in the last 15 years he has owned darTZeel. most of them include some direct compare. and Jacob Heilbrunn also has owned darTZeel for a few years, you can read his compares. two prominent reviewers with well known systems who could choose any amplifier, but prefer darTZeel......so far. 'cult' following? maybe....but much more than that.

darTZeel is mostly guilty of not being part of the brick and mortar cabal of high end stores who churn upgrade after upgrade. always changing models pushing more boxes. darTZeel models last a decade or longer typically. and their chassis designs never change. great for resale.

so it's not a high flying marketing organization. it does operate under the radar. for that guilty as charged.

... well - I actually just might do that - the 8550 mkII is about as much as I`ll be able to afford at the moment - but I talked with the distributor here in Germany and apparently it`s sufficient to drive my Sasha DAWs... I`m actually quite fascinated by darTZeel and I do like the image and what they stand for... just noone will actually "lend" a product for a few months... so buying for testing is probably the only option... but I suppose that the chances I will end up loving the product and sound are rather high - thus I`ll probably end up keeping it, so the risk of loosing money by having to resell is low enough...

 

[ashandger]

Mike, I noticed that Jacob mentioned in his review that his 468 amps took nearly 900 hours (going by memory here) to fully break-in!!! Is that your experience as well and are the 108 amps the same? This will certainly make auditioning a challenge as not many stockists around and then the amps must be fully run-in as well.

 

[Audiohertz2]

To compare Mcintosh to Dartzeel you gotta use the MC3500 mono amps ..

Regards