Coming Soon: High End Balanced Interconnect Shootout: Odin 2, Valhalla 2, AQ Dragon, Stealth Sakra V17LE, Ansuz D2 & more?

[BR549]

I tried the Shunyata Omega, AudioQuest Dragon and Nordost Odin 2 interconnects and went with the Nordost (used). It was the quietest of the three (by a slim margin), but revealed much more inner detail without sounding harsh. To my ear, the Omega was a bit boomy in the bass (could have been a function of my system). The Dragon came in second (in my system to my ear), but was an entirely different presentation sonically - it sounded like someone moved the mikes in the recording or something. I actually liked the presentation of the Dragon, but that inner detail sold me on the Nordost. I would NOT have done it though without finding them used and even that required a big gulp.

 

[LL21]

Congrats. Quite an amazing system, btw! Serious heavyweights top to bottom! Enjoy the Odin 2s.

 

[J007B]

Did you ever try the Ansuz?

 

[cmarin]

Please don't shoot the messenger as this may sound crazy to some, but you should really consider modifying your speaker placement to optimize for each cable before doing your listening comparisons.

A couple of years ago, we did a speaker cable shootout between two well respected high end cable brands, with a highly regarded regarded setup professional present to optimize the speaker set up for each cable.

The results were remarkable: There was a significant difference in how the system sounded using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 1, than how the system sounded using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 2. Using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 2 sounded so much better than using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 1. And vice-a-versa.

Our preferences would have been very different if we had left the speaker positions unchanged between switching cables. Caveat Emptor.

 

[BR549]

agreed strongly, except my speakers weigh 330 pounds each and moving them is not exactly easy. I have a "consultant" that helps me set up the room and he's going to come soon to help me adjust for this year's changes (hopefully there won't be changes next year!).

 

[Another Johnson]

Please don't shoot the messenger as this may sound crazy to some, but you should really consider modifying your speaker placement to optimize for each cable before doing your listening comparisons.

A couple of years ago, we did a speaker cable shootout between two well respected high end cable brands, with a highly regarded regarded setup professional present to optimize the speaker set up for each cable.

The results were remarkable: There was a significant difference in how the system sounded using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 1, than how the system sounded using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 2. Using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 2 sounded so much better than using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 1. And vice-a-versa.

Our preferences would have been very different if we had left the speaker positions unchanged between switching cables. Caveat Emptor.

I hope you also went through all the permutations and combinations of power cords, fuses, interconnects, and sources. Otherwise, your optima are just local optima.

Seriously though .., I suspect that your room had/has unresolved issues. The tonal balances of the speaker cables were probably different enough that different room and reflection modes were exacerbated by one compared to the other.

I do think that changing a component to mitigate a flaw in some other component is a misguided approach. Once you’ve got your room right and your speakers are properly located in that room, the goal in every bit of gear should be neutrality. Of course getting the room right is sometimes a difficult proposition.

An awful lot of audiophile discussions are a quest for sound rather than a quest for music. We make it very hard for normal people to buy in, even at the sane levels of a $20k system. Our OCD behavior spreads waves of fear and anxiety to naive readers.

We all respond to audio stimuli differently (Equal Loudness Curves are averages, not exact representations for every human). It is not a surprise that we do not all agree on “What’s Best?”. Or even on “What’s Rational?”.

 

[cmarin]

agreed strongly, except my speakers weigh 330 pounds each and moving them is not exactly easy. I have a "consultant" that helps me set up the room and he's going to come soon to help me adjust for this year's changes (hopefully there won't be changes next year!).

Couldn’t agree more about moving speakers. Mine weigh 560 lbs each.

But it’s amazing to experience firsthand what even a minuscule change in the placement of a speaker under the guidance of an expert can make to the sound experience.

Just glad I’m not the one who has to move the speakers!

 

[Atmasphere]

I tried the Shunyata Omega, AudioQuest Dragon and Nordost Odin 2 interconnects and went with the Nordost (used). It was the quietest of the three (by a slim margin), but revealed much more inner detail without sounding harsh. To my ear, the Omega was a bit boomy in the bass (could have been a function of my system). The Dragon came in second (in my system to my ear), but was an entirely different presentation sonically - it sounded like someone moved the mikes in the recording or something. I actually liked the presentation of the Dragon, but that inner detail sold me on the Nordost. I would NOT have done it though without finding them used and even that required a big gulp.

Its good that you have plenty of resolution to hear the differences.

Its bad that you hear them. It indicates none of the cables are right. You might hear one sounding best in the shootout, but we all know that next year that manufacturer will have a better cable, and if he doesn't, someone else will. That's been going on since the late 1970s when Robert Fulton founded the high end interconnect cable industry with his gold interconnects.

One of the points of operating balanced lines is to get rid of this particular problem- the cables should have all sounded the same. That they don't points to high resolution, but also that AES48 is unsupported, meaning that you still have to audition cables to find the 'right' one, despite being balanced.

 

[Elliot G.]

Couldn’t agree more about moving speakers. Mine weigh 560 lbs each.

But it’s amazing to experience firsthand what even a minuscule change in the placement of a speaker under the guidance of an expert can make to the sound experience.

Just glad I’m not the one who has to move the speakers!

still no wadax and P10? Im sure stirling willmove them again

 

[cmarin]

I hope you also went through all the permutations and combinations of power cords, fuses, interconnects, and sources. Otherwise, your optima are just local optima.

Seriously though .., I suspect that your room had/has unresolved issues. The tonal balances of the speaker cables were probably different enough that different room and reflection modes were exacerbated by one compared to the other.

I do think that changing a component to mitigate a flaw in some other component is a misguided approach. Once you’ve got your room right and your speakers are properly located in that room, the goal in every bit of gear should be neutrality. Of course getting the room right is sometimes a difficult proposition.

An awful lot of audiophile discussions are a quest for sound rather than a quest for music. We make it very hard for normal people to buy in, even at the sane levels of a $20k system. Our OCD behavior spreads waves of fear and anxiety to naive readers.

We all respond to audio stimuli differently (Equal Loudness Curves are averages, not exact representations for every human). It is not a surprise that we do not all agree on “What’s Best?”. Or even on “What’s Rational?”.

Hi. My post was not about changing components to compensate for room flaws. Or about a "quest for sound rather than a quest for music" - although I personally feel the value of a system is measured by its ability to elicit the musical emotion in the recording.

Instead, it was simply about how speaker placement is critical to obtaining the best sound (however you perceive that to be) given the limitations in your system and room. And specifically, and simply, about the value of optimizing speaker placement before judging your preference between two different components.

 

[cmarin]

still no wadax and P10? Im sure stirling willmove them again

Ha Ha, Elliot!!

Interesting and relevant story: Stirling showed up recently and he couldn't believe how the system sounded "off" from the last time, and asked if I'd moved the speakers and/or changed the system. I couldn't think of anything major, other than upgrading the software in the Taiko Extreme an adding a new Taiko network switch.

He kept shaking his head, until I remembered I had upgraded my TotalDac d12 MkII to the sublime version. That was the AHA moment. In the end, he ended repositioning the speakers very differently. And the "off" sound, which I had assumed was due to breaking-in the new changes, transformed into a new level of previously unattained level of emotional engagement! There is still much to be thankful in this world.

 

[BR549]

I have Stirling scheduled for January. Since he left last January, I have added separate service and ground field to the room and 20 amp dedicated lines, changed tubes, upgraded Taiko software and added the switch, added better power cables for my subs, added CMS ultra footers and revopods in various places and changed interconnects and added the Chord Professional (power filter thingie). Oh yea, I'm getting a new CMS rack and a new USB cable before January. It's time to have him back to work his magic! Then, I'll hopefully sit still for a good long while (which is exactly what I said last year ....).

 

[Rays]

Well, it's been over 13 weeks since the OP started this thread. In the first post an attached photo shows five pairs of interconnects to compare. I understand there was a setback (wedding and funeral) over 11 weeks ago, but surely with five IC's on hand there would be enough time for a comparison or two? Interesting thread topic but I'm giving up on this one. Thanks to the posters who have kept this thread interesting with their own comparisons.

 

[gfroman]

Whatever happened to your review of the cables??

 

[jasond]

Seems the reviewer or the cables got lost

 

[JeromeFrancis]

Please don't shoot the messenger as this may sound crazy to some, but you should really consider modifying your speaker placement to optimize for each cable before doing your listening comparisons.

A couple of years ago, we did a speaker cable shootout between two well respected high end cable brands, with a highly regarded regarded setup professional present to optimize the speaker set up for each cable.

The results were remarkable: There was a significant difference in how the system sounded using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 1, than how the system sounded using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 2. Using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 2 sounded so much better than using cable 2 in the speaker position optimized for cable 1. And vice-a-versa.

Our preferences would have been very different if we had left the speaker positions unchanged between switching cables. Caveat Emptor.

This makes sense, especially for speaker cables. If you accept the notion, like everyone here probably does, that the physical properties (i.e. capacitance, inductance, resistance) of a cable have an effect on the sound, your statement is logical. For example, higher capacitance cables most certainly cause a boost in the treble and hence you’ll perceive to hear a boost in higher frequency detail. This additional boost in treble will make you believe that you either hear more detail or that the cable is making your speaker sound too bright. With minor adjustments in the speaker placement and angle, you could rebalance it and be perfectly fine with the cable. So, i firmly believe that system matching and looking at the components and cable synergy reported by fellow audio enthusiasts is probably the best way to evaluate the fit. That’s one of the reasons i decided to join the forum. Cheers, J

 

[Atmasphere]

For example, higher capacitance cables most certainly cause a boost in the treble and hence you’ll perceive to hear a boost in higher frequency detail.

I don't think this is correct stated this way. The speaker cable capacitance is in parallel with the output of the amplifier so if anything should cause a rolloff.

But it can mess with the feedback loop of an amplifier, causing distortion and FR errors and even oscillation if the amplifier has a design weakness.

Distortion, if higher ordered harmonics, are perceived by the ear as brightness. So I'm just explaining the mechanism of what you described.

 

[JeromeFrancis]

I don't think this is correct stated this way. The speaker cable capacitance is in parallel with the output of the amplifier so if anything should cause a rolloff.

But it can mess with the feedback loop of an amplifier, causing distortion and FR errors and even oscillation if the amplifier has a design weakness.

Distortion, if higher ordered harmonics, are perceived by the ear as brightness. So I'm just explaining the mechanism of what you described.

Thank you for your reply. Interesting, in my experience, the higher capacitance cables had accentuated details in the upper frequency band compared to my more balanced Cardas Clear Reflection cables. There was an interesting podcast on Darko’s channel with Peter Comeau, in which he described the above mentioned phenomenon.

 

[Atmasphere]

Thank you for your reply. Interesting, in my experience, the higher capacitance cables had accentuated details in the upper frequency band compared to my more balanced Cardas Clear Reflection cables. There was an interesting podcast on Darko’s channel with Peter Comeau, in which he described the above mentioned phenomenon.

I don't doubt you heard brightness. If the amp is on the verge of oscillation due to the capacitive cable, it likely will also sound bright.

 

[JiminGa]

Higher capacitance leads to high frequency roll off. Generally I believe that the right speaker placement is independent of this variable.