"Cafe Blue" on Tape!

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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That's my unobjective view for what it is worth.

At the very least, your well stated reply was educational.

Listen to "Pieces" on that CD which I believe it is a modern classic with phenomenal work by Dave Douglas on trumpet as well as the other musicians. The words are brilliant. And the playing in all cases avoid the usual cliches so often found in singers and musicians.

I think (sometimes I loose track of my collection) I only have Barber's Cafe & Modern, I know I don't have Verses. Although I have heard cuts from Verses, it didn't reach out to me as a classic on first listen, but I know some audiophiles who truly luv that particular recording. Perhaps I need a re-visit, especially the cut Pieces.

tb1
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
I was always partial to Companion. :)

BTW, Patricia Barber is performing in NY on January 31-February 2 at The Jazz Standard.

Wayne Donnelly did a great piece for Ultimate Audio many years ago on Patricia too.
 

jonathanhorwich

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2010
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Chicago
As another note Myles and Mr. TBone, Verse is not a big seller, of course. But in my opinion it is a masterpiece of modern vocals and playing. The words to some of the songs are startling. I like Patricia live here in Chicago (every Monday night at the Green Mill) because on her records she demands vigorously tons of reverb. But live, she sounds different without the reverb bouncing all over. This is an aside to the main issue which is that I believe she is a great artist due to her originality. Yes, as someone in this thread said, she can be artsy artsy at times, but generally, she is really original and unique and surely a fine musician as are her bands.
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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As another note Myles and Mr. TBone, Verse is not a big seller, of course. But in my opinion it is a masterpiece of modern vocals and playing. The words to some of the songs are startling. I like Patricia live here in Chicago (every Monday night at the Green Mill) because on her records she demands vigorously tons of reverb. But live, she sounds different without the reverb bouncing all over. This is an aside to the main issue which is that I believe she is a great artist due to her originality. Yes, as someone in this thread said, she can be artsy artsy at times, but generally, she is really original and unique and surely a fine musician as are her bands.

It's been a few years since I've listened to Companion (which I assume was recorded at the Green Mill) so I can't remember if that live set was recorded without reverb?

tb1
 

Fast/Forward

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Aug 21, 2011
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Mississauga, On
After seeing this thread yesterday I gave Cafe Blue (MFSL LP) a spin to see if I could justify spending the coin that Ki Choi quoted. Several years ago I heard the sound quality superiority of the MFSL LP over the MFSL disc on an audio system (Focal Grand Utopias, Kron Kronzilla amps, Esoteric SACD player...) far superior to my own. At that time I felt that MFSL SACD was the most satisfying experience I've had listening to a digital source. The owner of the system asked what I had thought and I had said "I'm no drummer I felt I could tell how the drum kit was tuned." Listening to the LP on that system was most likely the most realistic illusion of an actual performance I had heard. It was spooky and moved me emotionally in a way that is difficult to describe.
My only references of digitally recorded material on open reel are a few Barclay-Crocker classical releases and a Dire Straits concert for radio use. The Barclay-Crockers are satisfying but the concert reel was dreadful (sold the tape without making a dub or digital copy). As a subscriber to The Tape Project I find myself entrenched in the analog only principle but have wondered what a great digital recording would be like when transferred with the ultimate electronics. How good would a real time dupe of a 15 IPS reel tape of Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms" or Joe Jackson's "Body And Soul" be? At a similar price to the "Cafe Blue" reeI I would buy both, if of course the sound was superior to their respective analog LP or digital issues.
I've read and heard numerous declarations by recording engineers and producers that there is a vast difference of sound quality between the digital tape source and the consumer's digital media (ie CD). The success of this "Cafe Blue" release could broaden the scope of what could be issued in the future.
I was on the International Phonograph web site earlier this week and considered ordering one of the site's analog listed recordings. I did not see "Cafe Blue" as being available as of last night.
 

Fast/Forward

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Aug 21, 2011
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Mississauga, On
Whoops!
I must add that the "Cafe Blue" reel is available through Premonition Records web site (as per 1st post) not International Phonograph. I found out the hard way.
Hence...
 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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How good would a real time dupe of a 15 IPS reel tape of Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms" or Joe Jackson's "Body And Soul" be?

I think BIA is a 16 bit recording, but a v.good one at that. I have each the CD & LP, in various flavours. My Jackson B&S CD is a perfect example of why CD has such a terrible reputation, basically un-listenable in my system. As I stated in a post above, Cowboy Junkees Trinity Sessions, a DAT based 16bit recording, received critical acclaim for it's "CD" sound quality. The TS LP is "virtually-identical" to the CD.

Which brings me back to subject of digital recordings on LP. Within my system, I consistently hear digital characteristic on LP. Basically, I hear it as a measure of limited dynamic capability and dimensional space, in which better analog LPs offer a much wider / layered presentation with superior instrumental impact. With CD, even stellar CD like Cafe or Trinity, they seem stunted in comparison. I'm not implying that these CDs are NOT excellent sounding recordings(*), I'm implying that they contain a sonic signature that I find consistent.

(* Although if I use Nardis (FIM HDCD) to illustrate 16/44 "limited" dynamically capability, one could make an argument pro CD)

As an example; last night I re-visited Tracy Chapman's 1988 recording, which if memory serves, is also a 16bit master. This LP, on release, was critically acclaimed by many audiophiles. Even though by CD standard it's relatively dynamic, it still comes across as dynamically stunted compared to native analog based LPs. I have others examples (Jennifer Warnes, Eva Cassidy) ...

Another interesting example is Allison Krauss New Favorite, which (IIRC) was recorded originally in DSD and then down-converted to 16/44 for CD. This CD received plenty of accolades for sound quality, and it does sound quite decent within my system, but it's not sonically competitive to Cafe or Trinity. I gather that since both Cafe & Trinity were recorded and played back "natively" at 16/44 (48?), I think (admittedly a generalization) the potential negative effect of digital conversion must be considered.

Even with certain recorders, native sounds better. The Alesis Masterlink for example, offers choices of 16 or 24 bit recording. You can record at 24 bit and the unit will down-convert to 16/44 CDR, or you can just record and playback at 16/44. I was not aware of this, but Marty DeWulf @ Bound for Sound once sent me a Alesis based LP-CDR that contained both versions, and I was not made aware of the que. In the end, I found the 16/44 native copies superior, even though they sounded more "crisp" they lacked the hazy & dynamically soft personality of the down-converted copies. Once heard, it remained consistent ... and the thing that I find even more interesting is that my "hazy & soft" character description is consistent with many SACD players I've heard, and furthermore ... consistent with players that offer higher sampling rate choices (ie: Cary).

Patricia Barber's Companion offers an interesting story. From what I've learned, when it was being recorded at 24/96, the recorder stop working, so they recorded 1 song at 16/44. I know that particular song, since it was presented to me as a test (which song?).

tb1
 

gamve

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2013
50
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Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
I added the Cafe Blue tape from Premonition records to my collection after reading this thread. Very happy with my purchase and it gives me an extra title while waiting for my first bunch of TP tapes. Delivery was quick and packing was first class.
 

Luiz Felipe

New Member
Jan 30, 2014
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Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Bringing this topic back from long time, Premonition has informed they will make the last run for Patricia Barber Cafe Blue Reel tapes. So if some one still was in doubt about this tape, this can be the last chance to purchase it.

http://www.premonitionrecords.com/productdetail.php?p=106
 

audioblazer

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May 13, 2010
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It's a very good recording
 

Hxt1

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2011
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Vancouver B.C.
I scored a copy of Cafe Blue on tape, and it does sound great, however it's not my cup of tea musically. I paid way less than $525, thank god.
If anyone is interested in it , I'd be willing to trade for something interesting or sell it at my cost.
I still can't get my head around BIA, it just sounds SO much better than the LP or CD.. it's actually one of my 'favorite' rock tapes...
I think the process of transferring has something to do with it, as I've heard master/safety dubs that just sound so very much better than the LP/CD versions of titles that it is mind blowing. Some technical voodoo going on there for sure.
Cheers
 

Skylab

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2016
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Chicagoland
I bought one of the last production run tapes of Cafe Blue. It definitely sounds great, as it's a terrific recording, and I personally love Patricia Barber, and have since I first saw her live when she was the house act at the Gold Star Sardine Bar in the early 1990's.

That said, Cafe Blue was a digital recording, and these tapes are run from the digital master, so it's certainly not the last word in what 15 ips 2-track tape can be, IMHO.
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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That said, Cafe Blue was a digital recording, and these tapes are run from the digital master, so it's certainly not the last word in what 15 ips 2-track tape can be, IMHO.

That's my understanding, as well, Skylab.
 

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