Cable Lifters!

[Steve Williams]

Yes well I think the Valhalla can fall into the same classification as the Transparent. Hey Steve, how come you didn't go to the Odin?

how do you spell D-I-V-O-R-C-E

FWIW I am quite happy with my Valhalla.

 

[mep]

Here is what I use made by Precision Audio Products

here is their explanation as to how it works. Snake oil, science or a bit of both
The Reasoning

Precision Audio Products provides the following explanation on how and why cable elevators work:

Cables come in contact with a wide variety of flooring surfaces. Each can have a different effect on cable behavior. By elevating cables off the floor you eliminate static charge and you lower capacitance. The net effect is lower noise and increased dynamics. Another factor is the dampening of the natural modulation inherent to all cable. That is an electrical signal passing through a conductor (cabling) produces a desirable mechanical resonance that is dampened when placed on the floor. This also constricts dynamics and low-level detail. Placing cables in free space would be ideal.

Well, there should be no static charge build-up on a cable that is on the floor. The cable is resting and is not in motion. In the winter time when humidity is low, we build up a static charge as we wall across the carpet and touch a metal object. I know, because in the winter when I walk across the room to mute my stereo, I always create an electric discharge when I touch my metal rack and it pops through the sytem. I have never heard of a cable producing a mechanical resonance when a signal is passed through it let alone a "desirable" resonance. The above explanation on why cable lifters improve sound doesn't sound plausible.

Here is what I say about cable lifters. In certain setups, they do make the installation look more clean which is always desirable. They also make you look like a really serious audiophile to non-audiophiles because they can see you have left no stone unturned in your quest to bring out the best in your system. If your setup looks really nice, that always puts a smile on your face. For the neurotic, having your cables "behave" better because they are on lifters will give them one less thing to worry about. Having less things to worry about eases your mind which makes it easier to relax and listen to your system. When you can relax and listen to your system, it always sounds better. Like John Lennon said, "what ever gets you through the night, it's alright." Do I have any cable lifters? No. They are not on my list of "must haves." Will I ever try them? Maybe when that is the last thing that will help improve the looks of my setup.

Mark

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

The so-called cable elevators lifters are not made by any of the audiophile manufacturers. They are Power distribution insulators. The one OB showed is what they call in the Power Distribution parlance a Low Voltage Pin type insulator. They are less than 10 dollar a piece, if you buy them direct from a Chinese manufacturer you get them for about 5$ including shipping. The verbiage from Precision Audiop Products is pure BS. THey know it but since some people have claimed "results" from the use of these, why not sell these and make a buck or two, actually close to 15 bucks on a product which requires no manufacture, no research, no development and little to no marketing .. Talk about Profit margins !!!
That is one of the many things that irks me about the audiophile world of which I am a staunch member. I sincerely find my stance to trydebunking these nonseses, quixotic but find it difficult not to react. There are far too many of these useless tweaks in our hobby. I'll stop at that ...

Frantz

 

[Fred]

Guys, as soon as I nail down some of the more essential upgrades that I have been looking at, I fully intend to get a few of these worthless gadgets. http://www.musicdirect.com/product/86973

I really don't think that they would do a darn thing for sound quality, but they would look oddly interesting. A snake oil product that can't hurt if you know it's snake oil going in.

 

[Gregadd]

First of all, if I had $50K invested in cables, the last thing I would do is throw them on the floor. A properly insulated cable should not be influenced by floor placement! The only good argument I heard for cable lifters is if the floor vibrates. SInce the cable is essentially carrying electrical vibrations it could be affected. The porcelain cable lifters are nice. I also like those little "wet floor sign" types.


Steve how do you get those little computer ribbons to to stay in the lifters?

 

[FrantzM]

Gregadd
They can't isolate the cables from the floor vibrations: they are made of porcelain, they will simply transmit these vibrations to the cables .. It has not been shown by any experiment that cables can be affected with these vibrations by the way but let us suppose for a moment that the cable would be affected, the "cable lifters" are porcelain and would conduct the vibration to the cable .. They are not made of absorbing material .. and what one would do with the airborne vibrations ? They are very nice in term of keeping things tidy I'll grant you that...

Frantz

P.S. I had the Valhalla and you cup them some to have them stay on the insulators...

 

[Gregadd]

I guess we can kick this around forever. Suffice to say I am cable lifter skeptic. In my former residence I could have conducted the experiment. My floor hummed along with the transformer in the basement. We could of course make a cable lifter that absorbs vibrations.

Just for the record I am a tweak skeptic of the first order. I can tell you of the heat I took for recommending a non-audiophile device. Someone was looking for a circuit breaker that would withstand a lightning strike. It seems that was a real problem where he lived. It was inconvenient to plug and unplug his equipment. I recommended a device I was using that not only was inexpensive. 60 bucks for a six plug device with telephone jack for your computer. It was made of metal and you could stand on it with no damage. Additionally they offered to replace any equipment that was damaged as a result of electrical surge. None of the mega buck audio devices provided lightening protection. None offered to replace equipment due to any kind of failure. Needless to say I was subjected to public ridicule. BTW I still use it.

 

[Nicholas Bedworth]

Simple teak blocks, made out of scrap by a local designer, certainly improved clarity in my system. There are 6 meter runs of line interconnect, and getting them off the floor was quite important.

The blocks are about 4 x 4 x 2, with a little notch in the top. The fellow who built them enjoyed doing it. He beveled the edges and put little clear rubber pads on the bottoms. I paid $175 for 20 of them, so around $9 each, which is somewhat cheaper than the typical maple blocks people have for sale.

 

[terryj]

Here is what I say about cable lifters. In certain setups, they do make the installation look more clean which is always desirable. They also make you look like a really serious audiophile to non-audiophiles because they can see you have left no stone unturned in your quest to bring out the best in your system.

Mark

Nahh, think the only people impressed by seeing elevators in a system are OTHER audiophiles.

The non-audiophiles..at best...would go WTF? Else they would just smirk behind your back I think.

How do I know??? Well, let's just say I don't call myself an audiophile eh?

Gregadd
They can't isolate the cables from the floor vibrations: they are made of porcelain, they will simply transmit these vibrations to the cables
Frantz

Actually, would not it make the vibrations worse? At least on the floor the entire length is supported along the entire length.

Prop a few power line insulators under them and they would inevitably sag between them, the same amount of force and vibrations are now transmitted to them, should they not start 'swaying in the breeze?'

Oh, and we all know how microphonic cables are yada yada.

Still, if it fixes all the room modes and such, we no longer need treatment eh?

And to think I wasted all that time making 'normal' room treatment, idiot that I am.

 

[es347]

They make absolutely no difference other than being able to tidy up your runs of cables. I've used cable elevators for at least the past 10 years

Actually the do make a difference Steve. They lower the balance of your checkbook.

 

[DWR]

Hummm the lifters I use look just like Steves' except mine were made by Detroit Edison, I picked up 12 of them on CL for $20. As for do I think they make any difference in the sound of the cables...nope not at all that I can hear, but like others have said they make the cables look good and if you are going to have the cables in plain view they might as well look good.

 

[ecir43]

I use them, can't say they made much differance other than looks. I bought 5 for 10 bucks with shiiping on eBay. Search brown insulator and be patience will bring a good deal. The key to find cheap is by searching brown insulator, if you search cable insulator or glass insulator you will find prices steep since the antique ones are collectable especially the glass mickey mouse ears ones.

Brad

 

[DaveyF]

I currently use the cable elevators and before that I was using a "Footer". The "Footers" are a circular lexan piece with a nylon string inserted that holds the cable as if it it is suspended above the ground.( Both of the these products seem to increase the overall ease of the sound in my system). Over the many years I have been a a'phile I have used the Tice clock ( It was a pretty good little clock, but mine didn't do squat for the sound, sold it to the next guy who also used it as a nice little clock!) the various Shun Mook products ( some worked for me, most didn't) the Harmonix feet/isolators ( which are frankly amazing in my system, i have them under just about everything, BUT the price!) and now we have the various Machina Dynamica stuff, which I haven't heard; BUT which a fellow a'phile friend says is basically pure snake oil. I think with all tweeks, YMMV.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well, it seems that most of us here can agree that cable lifters are not a solution to our problems, even though quite a few still use them, even while coming to that healthy conclusion. Next we could go to the cables themselves. Then look for the illusions in our speakers. We could keep backing out of our myths, through amps and preamps and sources and finally come full circle in our search for reality and take a look at isolation plinths...

Hello. My name is Phelonious and I'm an audiophile...



P

 

[Gregadd]

Clothes pins (remember those) work great. Just snap on the cable and the other end holds them off the floor. Paint them any color you like.

I would like someone to come up with an easy to use cable arrangement device to help the spaghetti behind my equipment rack. With power cords and interconnect between two racks and 15 pieces of equipment, I have yet to find a way to keep it organized (other than having all custom made cable lengths made).

Available at your local home supply store or online at Amazon.com

I doubt seriously whether cable lifters is the foundation upon which all the high end rests. Whether the they are an effective solution, depends on what your problem is. I refer all to the Pharmaceutical industry for which I beleive the term "snake oil" was coined. Their products are often ineffective, and maim and kill. Yet when done correctly they heal, prolong life and ease suffering. I myself am the beneficiary of such medicine.

It does sort of beg the question: Why is anecdotal evidence acceptable to prove a tweak does not work, but not acceptable to prove it does?

 

[DWR]

Interesting analogy Greg, coming from another who has benefitted from those medicines.

Dan

 

[MylesBAstor]

Interesting analogy Greg, coming from another who has benefitted from those medicines.

Dan

Sometime tweaks work in a system; sometimes they don't

Years ago had the Mpingo discs in my system and darned if I couldn't hear a difference; yet I went to a friends/fellow reviewers system with MBL101s and damned if they didn't improve the sound. Reason? Could have been many but one could have been that I was able to sit in one place while my friend moved the mpingos in and out and around as compared to my situation where I had to get up, move them and then sit down and relisten.

That's actually an issue that's not been raised in listening comparison (though John Crabbe did once many years ago in Grammaphone). Another example was when Michael Green of Roomtunes came over to my apt to set up his diffusers/reflectors. It was a 1000 times easier to hear differences when I didn't have to move and Michael repositioned his pillows around the room. Biggest difference I could hear was in the system's dynamics.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

My experience is at the oposite spectrum for the mpingo ... I have tried the mpingo and they have cosistantly done nothing in any system I have seen or not seen them ... The Room Tunes Pillows are a diferent thing , they make a slight not defintive, not sure difference in the systems, I have heard them in ... I would not bet anything on the efectt I thought they they had on the sound ...

Cable lifters are one of those things the audiophile world goes abuzz about for a while .... and dissipate as they should because their effectivenes is nonexistent ... High End Audio is littered with such products ...

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi

My experience is at the oposite spectrum for the mpingo ... I have tried the mpingo and they have cosistantly done nothing in any system I have seen or not seen them ... The Room Tunes Pillows are a diferent thing , they make a slight not defintive, not sure difference in the systems, I have heard them in ... I would not bet anything on the efectt I thought they they had on the sound ...

Cable lifters are one of those things the audiophile world goes abuzz about for a while .... and dissipate as they should because their effectivenes is nonexistent ... High End Audio is littered with such products ...

Frantz-

I assume you're referring their room Rx products or discs to put on top of electronics? Their record clamp definitely changed the sound

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Record Clamps were an area of madness to me .. They did make a difference and frankly there were explanations but it was rather disturbing how they affected the sound. The RoomTunes pillows did some things to the sound not "night and day" but careful placement especially in the corners changed a few things ... Very subtle, not as discernible as say Tube Traps or RPG difusors ... The mpingo ?.. nothing and frankly they can't do much ..

Now if you're talking about real isolation my experience with such is conclusive and in the case of TT one cam easily measure the merits of proper isolation... On my CD transport the effect were subtle enough to warrant the "imagined" qualification ... On TT after isolation, the level of the subwoofers had to be reduced because of the bass newfound defintion and power ... This is not the thread but IMO a TT place is in a different room if at all possible, not between the speakers ...

as for cable "lifters" ... read my earlier posts ...