Brand Loyalty

[Bruce B]

This was brought up in the Magico thread and I thought it should have its own discussion.
To me, Brand Loyalty goes deeper than just buying the product. Wilson and Magico owners like to bash each other and I'm sure if they had food in front of them, it would end up like the Animal House food fight! But lets dig deeper.
Let me pick something totally un-audio and see if I can make the connection. Harley Davidson and Apple have both been in business quite a few years. The line dividing Harley owners and Japanese bike owners is a solid wall. To me, I would never buy a Harley. They have reliability issues, are too loud and are really not that comfortable to ride on. I know Harley riders may disagree but I have at least on 3 occasions had the opportunity to ride one. I do respect the company though. You are not buying a motorcycle, you are buying into a culture. The Harley Owners Group is strong and have a solid camraderie. The arguements between Harley owners and non-Harley owners have at the extreme, resulted in death. The same can be said about Apple. People bought into the Apple Lifestyle. The divide between Apple and Windows followers has subsided as of late, but a few years ago, there were strong advocates for each. As a business owner, I had to put all my feeling aside and buy Mac computers because I'd be shutting out half my clientele. Now, I really like working on a Mac computer. They both have their downsides as well.

Now let's get back to the Wilson/Magico thing. You're not buying a Wilson speaker, you're buying into the lifestyle. You're buying into the R&D, the first-class shipping and delivery, the stuctured set-up process and the after sale service. Wilson treats their owners to special incentives, an upgrade path and group parties at some of the audio shows. Debby is coming on to the forums and answering questions and giving away free stuff.

Dave Wilson is our Steve Jobs. Being treated like you're a member of the family and a value to them, that's how you get brand loyalty

 

[flez007]

And what about dealer loyalty Bruce? - I have also found people that buy from trusted/knowledgeable dealers no matter what line they offer along the road.

 

[Bruce B]

And what about dealer loyalty Bruce? - I have also found people that buy from trusted/knowledgeable dealers no matter what line they offer along the road.

I haven't thought too much about that one. I'd rather buy equipment that sounds good and the companies that stand behind their product than be loyal to some person/business. That got me into trouble once before. I know we're supposed to support the dealers, but this hobby is becoming more global and most people don't have 2-3 dealers in their backyard.

 

[mep]

I haven't thought too much about that one. I'd rather buy equipment that sounds good and the companies that stand behind their product than be loyal to some person/business. That got me into trouble once before. I know we're supposed to support the dealers, but this hobby is becoming more global and most people don't have 2-3 dealers in their backyard.

My backyard only has dog crap in it-no dealers.

 

[jazdoc]

An acquaintance in the adverstising industry pointed me to a wonderful lecture by Jerry Bulllmore about brands from an advertiser's perspective whimsically entitled "Posh Spice and Persil" which can be found here: http://www.wpp.com/wpp/marketing/branding/articles-poshspice/. My friend claims that if you understand this article, you know more about branding and advertising than most advertising execs.

Among Bullmore's key observations:

•Products are made and owned by companies. Brands, on the other hand, are made and owned by people... by the public... by consumers.
•A brand image belongs not to a brand - but to those who have knowledge of that brand.
•The image of a brand is a subjective thing. No two people, however similar, hold precisely the same view of the same brand.
•That highest of all ambitions for many CEOs, a global brand, is therefore a contradiction in terms and an impossibility.
•People come to conclusions about brands as a result of an uncountable number of different stimuli: many of which are way outside the control or even influence of the product's owner.
•Brands - unlike products - are living, organic entities: they change, however imperceptibly, every single day.
•Much of what infuences the value of a brand lies in the hands of its competitors....

It is not enough for BMW to be known only to that 5% of the population wealthy enough even to contemplate buying one. For BMW to enjoy real fame, it needs to be known almost indiscriminately.

I do not know why this should be; I only know that it is.

There are those who believe that it's all to do with envy and one-upmanship: what's the point of your driving about in a £50,000 BMW if 95 per cent of us peasants don't realise just how successful you must be to own one? There may be a bit of truth in this theory: but it surely can't explain the value that Persil derives from being universally famous? And doesn't it seem improbable that we pop a six-pack of Coke or a packet of Oxo cubes into our shopping basket in the hope of arousing envy and admiration in the hearts of all the others at the checkout counter?...

The luxury of choice that we all enjoy; the fact that, however crassly sometimes, competitive companies are fighting for our cash and our custom; all this means that, in allocating our loyalty, we welcome reasons to reject a brand almost as eagerly as reasons to prefer it.

As Professor Ehrenberg and others have long demonstrated, and as Robert Heath reminds us, what is called brand loyalty is very rarely a truly exclusive matter. We assume all alternatives to be broadly acceptable; we all have favoured repertoires within each brand category; and we all want to make brand decisions with a minimum of anguish. So however infinitesimally negative a brand encounter may be, the damage it may do to that brand's competitive standing may be serious.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

This was brought up in the Magico thread and I thought it should have its own discussion.
To me, Brand Loyalty goes deeper than just buying the product. Wilson and Magico owners like to bash each other and I'm sure if they had food in front of them, it would end up like the Animal House food fight! But lets dig deeper.
Let me pick something totally un-audio and see if I can make the connection. Harley Davidson and Apple have both been in business quite a few years. The line dividing Harley owners and Japanese bike owners is a solid wall. To me, I would never buy a Harley. They have reliability issues, are too loud and are really not that comfortable to ride on. I know Harley riders may disagree but I have at least on 3 occasions had the opportunity to ride one. I do respect the company though. You are not buying a motorcycle, you are buying into a culture. The Harley Owners Group is strong and have a solid camraderie. The arguements between Harley owners and non-Harley owners have at the extreme, resulted in death. The same can be said about Apple. People bought into the Apple Lifestyle. The divide between Apple and Windows followers has subsided as of late, but a few years ago, there were strong advocates for each. As a business owner, I had to put all my feeling aside and buy Mac computers because I'd be shutting out half my clientele. Now, I really like working on a Mac computer. They both have their downsides as well.

Now let's get back to the Wilson/Magico thing. You're not buying a Wilson speaker, you're buying into the lifestyle. You're buying into the R&D, the first-class shipping and delivery, the stuctured set-up process and the after sale service. Wilson treats their owners to special incentives, an upgrade path and group parties at some of the audio shows. Debby is coming on to the forums and answering questions and giving away free stuff.

Dave Wilson is our Steve Jobs. Being treated like you're a member of the family and a value to them, that's how you get brand loyalty

With all respect,the bolded sounds more like fanboy-ism.

 

[microstrip]

Curiously, my strongest brand loyalty is not in audio equipment, but in electrical instruments - I can not imagine myself buying or ordering a multimeter that is not a Fluke ... And any cable soldered with a Weller soldering iron will sound better!

 

[microstrip]

With all respect,the bolded sounds more like fanboy-ism.

Perhaps, but is is mostly true. Just go to the Wilson Audio site and read the newsletters. I can refer that since long I have exchanged emails with people from Wilson Audio - John Giolas and Jerron Marchant were always friendly and available to help.

Wilson Audio design is also part of their customers brand loyalty - their designs and color schemes show an overall consistency that helps making you feel being part of a large group.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

.

Dave Wilson is our Steve Jobs. Being treated like you're a member of the family and a value to them, that's how you get brand loyalty

I have to respectfully say this differently... Dave Wilson is like Bill Gates. The establishment.

 

[still-one]

Bruce
I think you hit just about everything right on. I also agree that your local dealer and which products he carries can have a significant impact on your purchasing decision. I am fortunate to live between a great Wilson Dealer/D'Agostino dealer and one who carries Magico, Constellation and possibly Soulution in the near future. If I was starting from scratch I could see myself struggling to decide with which products to build a system. Knowing the service I get from Paragon I would probably still go that way. Now if Larry would only get some MBL xTreme's in on trade if would be a whole new ballgame.

 

[Steve Williams]

I've been a Wilson owner for 25 years. In that time I have owned
WP 5.1
WP 6
MAXX l
X1 series lll
X2 series l
X2 series ll
XS
WATCH center, surround and rears

Need I say more.

 

[mep]

I've been a Wilson owner for 25 years. In that time I have owned
WP 5.1
WP 6
MAXX l
X1 series lll
X2 series l
X2 series ll
XS
WATCH center, surround and rears

Need I say more.

Yeah, where are your XLFs?

 

[Lee]

Seems to me brand loyalty in audio involves several aspects like:

**Reputation which is driven by your influencers, ie. what do your peers and industry thought leaders think of the product.
**Stability which is how established is the brand. Do they have a long history of standing behind the product?
**Customer Service - how strong is the dealer network and how easy is it to get things fixed or get key parts?
**Customer Experience (includes Customer Service) - how easy is it to deal with the company? Does the experience feel well organized and professional?
**Performance - how does it sound and does that excitement stick around or is it gone in a few weeks?

Seems like one could easily argue that companies like Wilson Audio fit this rather well.

 

[still-one]

I have to respectfully say this differently... Dave Wilson is like Bill Gates. The establishment.

I find that one pervasive belief in this hobby is that any large reasonably successful firm cannot be at the leading edge or esoteric enough for some. It isn't just Wilson Audio, the same for McIntosh, B&W, Focal, et al.

 

[jap]

This was brought up in the Magico thread and I thought it should have its own discussion.
To me, Brand Loyalty goes deeper than just buying the product. Wilson and Magico owners like to bash each other and I'm sure if they had food in front of them, it would end up like the Animal House food fight! But lets dig deeper.
Let me pick something totally un-audio and see if I can make the connection. Harley Davidson and Apple have both been in business quite a few years. The line dividing Harley owners and Japanese bike owners is a solid wall. To me, I would never buy a Harley. They have reliability issues, are too loud and are really not that comfortable to ride on. I know Harley riders may disagree but I have at least on 3 occasions had the opportunity to ride one. I do respect the company though. You are not buying a motorcycle, you are buying into a culture. The Harley Owners Group is strong and have a solid camraderie. The arguements between Harley owners and non-Harley owners have at the extreme, resulted in death. The same can be said about Apple. People bought into the Apple Lifestyle. The divide between Apple and Windows followers has subsided as of late, but a few years ago, there were strong advocates for each. As a business owner, I had to put all my feeling aside and buy Mac computers because I'd be shutting out half my clientele. Now, I really like working on a Mac computer. They both have their downsides as well.

Now let's get back to the Wilson/Magico thing. You're not buying a Wilson speaker, you're buying into the lifestyle. You're buying into the R&D, the first-class shipping and delivery, the stuctured set-up process and the after sale service. Wilson treats their owners to special incentives, an upgrade path and group parties at some of the audio shows. Debby is coming on to the forums and answering questions and giving away free stuff.

Dave Wilson is our Steve Jobs. Being treated like you're a member of the family and a value to them, that's how you get brand loyalty

I agree with you about Harley Davidson. The local HD dealer bought out the Honda dealership. I went in there last year looking for a CB1100 and they said they'd call back with more info (they never did).

On the way the door, a HD salesman (black t-shirt, black jeans with a big chain attached to his wallet, and lots of tatts) stops me and says why don't you take a look at a HD. I told him I was interested buying a motorcycle, not a lifestyle.

On the WA lifestyle, it's too bad they weren't there for Ian (MadFloyd), when he couldn't get his dealer to do the WASP.

 

[microstrip]

I've been a Wilson owner for 25 years. In that time I have owned
WP 5.1
WP 6
MAXX l
X1 series lll
X2 series l
X2 series ll
XS
WATCH center, surround and rears

Need I say more.

OK, just the Wilson's:


WP5
WP5.1 (an easy step)
WP7
WP7 + Watchdog sub
CUB as surround
MAXX2
MAXX3
X2 series 2
Alexia

 

[asiufy]

Dave Wilson is our Steve Jobs. Being treated like you're a member of the family and a value to them, that's how you get brand loyalty

I am sorry, but I have to write something.
This is preposterous. As a Steve Jobs admirer, it's just preposterous. There's absolutely no parallel between the life and work of David Wilson that matches Steve's.
I can respect the fact that you like Wilson products, Bruce, for whatever reason. But this comparison is just plain crass fanboyism, as Johnny also noticed.
I agree with the post above, that the final overall experience has as much to do with the dealer than with the brand itself. Dealers make or break brands for a given market.

alexandre

 

[Bruce B]

I am sorry, but I have to write something.
This is preposterous. As a Steve Jobs admirer, it's just preposterous. There's absolutely no parallel between the life and work of David Wilson that matches Steve's.
I can respect the fact that you like Wilson products, Bruce, for whatever reason. But this comparison is just plain crass fanboyism, as Johnny also noticed.
I agree with the post above, that the final overall experience has as much to do with the dealer than with the brand itself. Dealers make or break brands for a given market.

alexandre

You see, this is what I was trying to get at. The Apple brand is just as polarizing as the Wilson brand, or the Harley brand. Of course I like their products, but as was stated above, a brand is much more than the product. I like Yamaha as well. What I have written is all true. Wilson, as well as FIM, SME and several other companies care more about just the packaging than most companies I see care about anything else. Look how the Tape Project packages and cares for their product. They make you feel special. Look at Ferrari, Porsche, MB or Lamborghini. The customer care you get is beyond reproach. This is how you tailor brand loyalty. Everyone loves to be pampered and schmoozed!

 

[Bruce B]

On the WA lifestyle, it's too bad they weren't there for Ian (MadFloyd), when he couldn't get his dealer to do the WASP.

You can bet WA reads these forums. I was at Dave's house and there was a scrapbook on the coffee table with clippings of all the reviews and even complete threads pulled right here from WBF. They are listening.

 

[Bruce B]

With all respect,the bolded sounds more like fanboy-ism.

What part did I lie about?