Aqua La Scala MKII Optologic Dac Owner Testimonial

[rgmd11]

These are very nice rare tubes and worth a try. Should be big, bold, extended and huge soundstage.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255249120299?hash=item3b6e087c2b:gNsAAOSwJUZkxjzN&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwHeREHS8guGRDn/Qgx/lf72XdkmhCP7D1qz4IaWxn5SjnI4VxNV5azdDpULVBlS9HbKmAZZUhnoGqnwBFQrQbHLILcrqzb/9C+6v5+ZTRdiCpJ68kD7AW+TpbNxzy2m8WMjllR7Ic1yO51+ohJvcrvuPhotNqQG3wjgKbovYvnkbLIf9+B8wWNkBUw6OW8V8Z2IvXDj7iEFXrRPTEKaIAOi7E9HZtsconQmLyeJW58wCzkwOKNR6+qA7uemguQjwOw==|tkp:Bk9SR_Sj29-9Yg

Hello Blue58

When you say "Should" , have you actually personally tried a pair !, it appears they were a Hungarian company majority owned by GE and according to Wikipedia were once the 3rd largest manufacturer of Tubes in the world, must say I have never heard of them, but then my knowledge of tubes is somewhat lacking...would appreciate any more insights you may have...

Best wishes..

 

[Blue58]

Hello Blue58

When you say "Should" , have you actually personally tried a pair !, it appears they were a Hungarian company majority owned by GE and according to Wikipedia were once the 3rd largest manufacturer of Tubes in the world, must say I have never heard of them, but then my knowledge of tubes is somewhat lacking...would appreciate any more insights you may have...

Best wishes..

Hi rgmd11
I haven’t tried the ECC81 but use the Tungsram ECC83 from the early ’60s with great results in my amp. I have found most Tungsram valves to be of exceptional quality, something to do with the materials used in their production. For reference they bested Telefunken, Tesla, Mullard and the best of the Raytheon black plates.
Definitely worth a try and easy to sell if you didn’t like their contribution.

cheers
Blue58

 

[rgmd11]

Hi rgmd11
I haven’t tried the ECC81 but use the Tungsram ECC83 from the early ’60s with great results in my amp. I have found most Tungsram valves to be of exceptional quality, something to do with the materials used in their production. For reference they bested Telefunken, Tesla, Mullard and the best of the Raytheon black plates.
Definitely worth a try and easy to sell if you didn’t like their contribution.

cheers
Blue58

Hi Blue58

Well I am about to go away for a few months of work, but I will certainly look into getting a pair of these valves, you have piqued my interest to say the least.

Thanks

Best regards

 

[Backo NYC/SF]

Hi

Emperyan in post # 9, stated that he was not a fan, I must say everything I have read about those tubes has been very complimentary, though at the price they cost, I am apprehensive to get a pair.

But then I will always be wondering what i might have potentially missed out on.

Best wishes

I am not a fan of just throwing money at something, but the Aqua has been such a great value compared to DAC’s I’ve heard selling for twice as much, a pair of tubes at $300 USD a set isn’t the most frivolous spend I’ve ever made on gear. To be clear, I loved the LaScala from day one and upgrading the cables and fine-tuning the isolation only made it better. I think Aqua did something really rare in this design. It’s got real character and I think it’s going to be in my rack for sometime to come. I just love it.
I’m going to be doing some tube testing in September and will be happy to post my findings here. In the mean time,

 

[rgmd11]

I am not a fan of just throwing money at something, but the Aqua has been such a great value compared to DAC’s selling for twice as much, a pair of tubes at $300 USD a set isn’t the most frivolous spend I’ve ever made on gear. To be clear, I loved the LaScala from day one and upgrading the cables and fine-tuning the isolation only made it better. I think Aqua did something really rare in this design. It’s got real character.
I’m going to be doing some tube testing in September and will be happy to post my findings here. In the mean time,

Yes, please post back here once when you have done some tube rolling, very inquistive to hear how you get on, I emphatically agree that Aqua created something special with the La Scala, especially given its price point, I have heard several very good DACs including APL, MSB, DCS and Playback Designs and the LaScala easily punches way above above its weight, It is certainly without doubt a very detailed DAC and for my ears has a very liquid and relaxed sounding presentation, and it most definitely scales very well with a good cable, Isolating feet and a good fuse too ...

Ps..A few hundred $ on a pair of tubes is a worthwhile punt for a potentially bigger jump in SQ.

Best wishes

 

[Backo NYC/SF]

My love for the La Scala notwithstanding, it made sense for me because I already had a love affair going with my Esoteric P-03 CD transport and was just looking for an upgrade from my Chord Hugo TT. If I were going to be considering a CD upgrade or purchase, I’d be really leaning into getting the Esoteric KO3XD SACD/CD with Esoteric’s new DAC built in. It’s below your $20K price point and has full DAC functionality allowing for other digital devices to use the DAC. I’d really take a look.

 

[rgmd11]

Yes, please post back here once when you have done some tube rolling, very inquistive to hear how you get on, I emphatically agree that Aqua created something special with the La Scala, especially given its price point, I have heard several very good DACs including APL, MSB, DCS and Playback Designs and the LaScala easily punches way above above its weight, It is certainly without doubt a very detailed DAC and for my ears has a very liquid and relaxed sounding presentation, and it most definitely scales very well with a good cable, Isolating feet and a good fuse too ...

Ps..A few hundred $$$ on a pair of tubes is a worthwhile punt for a potentially bigger jump in SQ.

Best wishes

 

[Emperyan]

Again, regarding the Telefunken 801s:
It´s a tube with very special qualities, I have not fund anywhere else, yet. It delivers over the top resolution and a very holographic presentation. This might feel impressive at fist glance. But to my ears, it sounds somewhat artificial in those qualities. As if it´s adding something which is in fact not on the record. Therefore, I find it exhausting and a bit annoying after longer listening. Also, the super high resolution comes at the expense of somewhat harsher heights - at least compared to good Mullards etc.. With the Telefunken 801s, I tend to notice, that I am listening to a hifi system. But I would like to keep my attention solely on the music.

That being said, I don´t think the Telefunken 801s matches the charakter of the La Scala well. With the Aqua, I am looking for an analoge like smooth and musical presentation. And my older ECC81 Blackburn Mullards give me a way smoother, natural, liquid and relaxed presentation which nicely complements the La Scala signature. Maybe at the expense of the last bit of high frequency resolution, but with so much more musicality. With this combination, I can forget about hifi and sink into the music.

I have tested Tele 801s in the Aqua and in an Octave V80SE amp and the general direction was the same in both devices. I also have a pair of Tele 802s and tested with Octave RE320 poweramp and it´s similar in signature. But, as always, it´s an impression inside my hifi chain. Your equipment and preferences might vary. In the end, it´s a matter of personal taste.

 

[Backo NYC/SF]

Yes, please post back here once when you have done some tube rolling, very inquistive to hear how you get on, I emphatically agree that Aqua created something special with the La Scala, especially given its price point, I have heard several very good DACs including APL, MSB, DCS and Playback Designs and the LaScala easily punches way above above its weight, It is certainly without doubt a very detailed DAC and for my ears has a very liquid and relaxed sounding presentation, and it most definitely scales very well with a good cable, Isolating feet and a good fuse too ...

Ps..A few hundred $ on a pair of tubes is a worthwhile punt for a potentially bigger jump in SQ.

Best wishes

Tube rolling is next. I have to say that getting the Taiko Daiza isolation base and then using Stein Music Super Footer Matrix feet (3 per set) was when the LaScala really blossomed. I really can’t stress enough the need to get a really wonderful DAC off of some really not great stock feet.
I added a pic of the final result. The rack is one of a pair of Massif Audio Design racks made of solid ash. Nothing fancy. Just rock solid.

 

[Jim Smith]

Tube rolling is next. I have to say that getting the Taiko Daiza isolation base and then using Stein Music Super Footer Matrix feet (3 per set) was when the LaScala really blossomed. I really can’t stress enough the need to get a really wonderful DAC off of some really not great stock feet.
I added a pic of the final result. The rack is one of a pair of Massif Audio Design racks made of solid ash. Nothing fancy. Just rock solid.

My La Scala is on some AV Room Service EVPs and I upgraded the AC power cord, along with my 801s, all of which took it to another level of which I am unsure I've heard a more musically engaging DAC at any price. But it was already excellent, IMO.

 

[Designsfx]

It’s good to see other La Scala owners keeping the knowledge share going. I‘ve used an Aqua for a few years now and have really enjoyed the way it presents digital.
I have to say that while I didn’t spend a lot of time exploring different tube options with this Dac I do appreciate the difference an excellent pair of tubes provides. Some time after the purchase I changed to older NOS Telefunken 12AT7‘s. I’m not sure of the exact vintage but I can say that the difference they make is night and day.
These particular tubes were purchased from Brent Jesse at Audiotubes.com. My last purchase 3 or so years ago was $300 a pair so it wouldn’t surprise me to find them more expensive now but I would definitely buy them again if needed. It’s the best thing you can do if you want to realize the dacs full potential.

 

[rgmd11]

My La Scala is on some AV Room Service EVPs and I upgraded the AC power cord, along with my 801s, all of which took it to another level of which I am unsure I've heard a more musically engaging DAC at any price. But it was already excellent, IMO.

Similar observations to mine, I truly think the La Scala with said upgrades in Tubes, Feet and a Good Power cable really does elevate this DAC into something special, and actually a veritable bargain and value proposition for the price.

 

[rgmd11]

It’s good to see other La Scala owners keeping the knowledge share going. I‘ve used an Aqua for a few years now and have really enjoyed the way it presents digital.
I have to say that while I didn’t spend a lot of time exploring different tube options with this Dac I do appreciate the difference an excellent pair of tubes provides. Some time after the purchase I changed to older NOS Telefunken 12AT7‘s. I’m not sure of the exact vintage but I can say that the difference they make is night and day.
These particular tubes were purchased from Brent Jesse at Audiotubes.com. My last purchase 3 or so years ago was $300 a pair so it wouldn’t surprise me to find them more expensive now but I would definitely buy them again if needed. It’s the best thing you can do if you want to realize the dacs full potential.

Very interesting that you acquired some Telefunken Tubes (am assuming the 801S !), for a while now I have been interested in this Tube, but not sure how these would translate in my system, as I have read several reports that they can be just a little bit too revealing, would very much like to get old of a pair of 1960's Mullard 6060 Blackplates.....and thanks for highlighting Audiotubes.com....very enlightening website....

 

[Designsfx]

Very interesting that you acquired some Telefunken Tubes (am assuming the 801S !), for a while now I have been interested in this Tube, but not sure how these would translate in my system, as I have read several reports that they can be just a little bit too revealing, would very much like to get old of a pair of 1960's Mullard 6060 Blackplates.....and thanks for highlighting Audiotubes.com....very enlightening website....

This is the descriptor of the tubes I purchased for the La Scala from the Audiotubes site.

 

[Designsfx]

@rgmd11
I don’t know if I would classify the tubes I have as overly revealing for a couple of reasons. When I think of the term revealing my mind automatically jumps to equating that as being analytical as well- a term I would never use in describing the La Scala.
They do produce wonderful clarity in the upper frequencies but as the La Scala has its own distinct sound (especially mid/upper mid) I felt whatever that tube is doing it’s helping overall. The largest improvement was heard/felt in the lower frequency range- the stock tubes weren’t impressive at all and these really turned things around.

 

[rgmd11]

@rgmd11
I don’t know if I would classify the tubes I have as overly revealing for a couple of reasons. When I think of the term revealing my mind automatically jumps to equating that as being analytical as well- a term I would never use in describing the La Scala.
They do produce wonderful clarity in the upper frequencies but as the La Scala has its own distinct sound (especially mid/upper mid) I felt whatever that tube is doing it’s helping overall. The largest improvement was heard/felt in the lower frequency range- the stock tubes weren’t impressive at all and these really turned things around.

Hi Designsfx

Thanks for the info, I may just have to get a pair of the Mullard 6060's and a pair of the Telefunken 12AT7/ECC81 tubes that you have, as they have piqued my interest, I really thought that the Telefunken 801S were concidered the holy grail out of all the Telefunken tubes, but the owner of Audioubes thinks these are the best, and he seems to be a very knowledgeable Tube guy, did they need a settling in / burning in time !.
Appreciate your explantion of how you perceive them in your La Scala....

 

[Designsfx]

@rgmd11
It’s strange- I don’t remember there being a noticeable change with those tubes. I would expect there was but it wasn’t a case of where there were particular qualities I focused on thinking/expecting it to become better over time.
At the time I was just becoming adjusted to the dac itself. I remember noting that while I loved the improvements it offered the low end reproduction didn’t seem to be great to me. I liked the fact that the high frequency “glare” (heard in other dacs) was gone but overall it seemed like it needed a little boost. As the only effective option for change was new tubes I took a chance on those described above. Once they were installed I was immediately satisfied!

Please note that you while you need to have both tube sockets populated while using the dac you don’t have to have matched tubes in both locations. According to Cristian Anelli the left tube location is for RCA/SE output and the right is for XLR/Balanced. I populated both sockets with NOS tubes but never use the SE output so I’m probably just wasting a good tube in that case.

 

[Emperyan]

@rgmd11
Please note that you while you need to have both tube sockets populated while using the dac you don’t have to have matched tubes in both locations. According to Cristian Anelli the left tube location is for RCA/SE output and the right is for XLR/Balanced. I populated both sockets with NOS tubes but never use the SE output so I’m probably just wasting a good tube in that case.

I have read this comment as well. But when I asked this question to Anelli, I was forwarded to the tech guy from the German Aqua distributor. He was totally sure this is not the case and both tubes are being used at the same time - at least for the balanced connection. Therefore I also put in two identical ones, as I can´t be sure about anthing.

I am not sure about your specific "selected" Telefunken ECC81, but the Tele 801S are somewhat different from the regular ECC81 I have tried. The 801S were even more open sounding and holographic. But as stated before, I could never get used to them. I put them in several times and was kind of in awe at first listen. But a couple of days later, I swapped them back to Mullards again, as I fould the Teles to sound somehow artificial. So maybe different taste or different chains.
The Teles do feature a tight and dry base, though.

 

[rgmd11]

@rgmd11
It’s strange- I don’t remember there being a noticeable change with those tubes. I would expect there was but it wasn’t a case of where there were particular qualities I focused on thinking/expecting it to become better over time.
At the time I was just becoming adjusted to the dac itself. I remember noting that while I loved the improvements it offered the low end reproduction didn’t seem to be great to me. I liked the fact that the high frequency “glare” (heard in other dacs) was gone but overall it seemed like it needed a little boost. As the only effective option for change was new tubes I took a chance on those described above. Once they were installed I was immediately satisfied!

Please note that you while you need to have both tube sockets populated while using the dac you don’t have to have matched tubes in both locations. According to Cristian Anelli the left tube location is for RCA/SE output and the right is for XLR/Balanced. I populated both sockets with NOS tubes but never use the SE output so I’m probably just wasting a good tube in that case.

Now that is very interesting about the Tube locations on the PCB, one for RCA/SE and one for XLR/Balanced, with that now in mind I think I will get one each of the Mullard and Telefunken tubes, thank you very much for pointing that out, Cristian Anelli is a stand up character who is always quick to respond to any queries....

 

[rgmd11]

I have read this comment as well. But when I asked this question to Anelli, I was forwarded to the tech guy from the German Aqua distributor. He was totally sure this is not the case and both tubes are being used at the same time - at least for the balanced connection. Therefore I also put in two identical ones, as I can´t be sure about anthing.

I am not sure about your specific "selected" Telefunken ECC81, but the Tele 801S are somewhat different from the regular ECC81 I have tried. The 801S were even more open sounding and holographic. But as stated before, I could never get used to them. I put them in several times and was kind of in awe at first listen. But a couple of days later, I swapped them back to Mullards again, as I fould the Teles to sound somehow artificial. So maybe different taste or different chains.
The Teles do feature a tight and dry base, though.

Just read your reply about needing x 2 tubes for balanced output, I have just e-mailed Cristian at Aqua, will report back on his reply....