Anyone Understand Design Approach of Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson, etc., to have High Sensitivity?

[andromedaaudio]

If you re in the market for top of the line gear you owe it to yourself to visit munchen '/ hifideluxe .

Lets put it another way at how many places in sweden can you hear top of the line gryphon apex CH M 10 Halcro FM acoustics Robert koda .

Kharma exquisite line Viva horns etc etc .

Tubes : CAT ,Viva , the latest ARC Series etc etc

 

[Hyperion]

If you re in the market for top of the line gear you owe it to yourself to visit munchen '/ hifideluxe .

Lets put it another way at how many places in sweden can you hear top of the line gryphon apex CH M 10 Halcro FM acoustics Robert koda .

Kharma exquisite line Viva horns etc etc .

Tubes : CAT ,Viva , the latest ARC Series etc etc

The shows are great for browsing, meeting the manufacturers and to get a basic sense of the performance of certain systems. It's not a place for relaxed and critical listening though.

You're mentioning the "ultra high end" statement pieces from these brands which are exciting to many but aimed towards the very few.

Being based on a very small and limited market, we do naturally carry and focus on the models which has a broader target group from most of our brands (incl. CH, Boulder, Pilium, Ypsilon, Viva and more). At this point in time, our selection of brands and products for permanent demonstration are more substantial than most in Scandinavia or even Europe I would say.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[beaur]

"Makes me wonder " why experienced audiophiles like you still read that nonsense /marketing.

Audiophiles would be far better of if they went to munchen to visit the 2 shows each year and trusted their own ears .

Wonder no more.

Never dismiss a potential source of information is why you would ask such a question. Try to gather as much information as possible, and somewhere down the line, it may help when you need to purchase something. If not, you at least have learned something.

Shows; I've been going to Munich since 2010. Have heard some great rooms and learned a lot, but that's a start. Have heard some of that equipment that sounded great in Munich sound not so great in my system, some great confirming what I heard too. Have attended other Shows around the world since the early 90s and the same applies.

Magazines/Websites; Also, subscribe/read many of the available mags/sites out there, learn who shares your tastes and likes and proceed accordingly.

Use local sources; Also lucky enough to live in NYC for the past 30 years and have absorbed much from people a lot wiser than me and have attended countless events at dealers etc that helped educate me.

Internet; If you don't have local sources use forums like WBF and others to develop relationships. You'd be surprised how much information you can find and what you will learn. Also, many people in the industry respond to questions about gear, music etc. I know I've asked.

Be open; I converted to SET and horns as my ideal source after a few magical experiences. Right now though I have a 200W Ayre amplifier running my system and I am enjoying the heck out of it.

Enough for now.
amps breaking in this thread. I have SET monoblocks for the last 20 years. They've probably been on for 15 of those 20. Only downtime has been to repair a noisy cap, noisy switch and to change out tubes for a different sound (tubes not worn out).

 

[gleeds]

Last night I listened to stenheim v and harbeth 40.2 at a friend’s house. Amp was a kondo push-pull.

The stenheim made elvis and armstrong sound in need of blood transfusions. In fact, i was in doubt whether it was the king or a pretender from jutland. Bass was distinctly non-physical. After a few tracks we switched to the harbeths and didnt bother going back.

I have heard them before at a dealer’s with ch precision amp and was also then underwhelmed. An academic experience.

So no, i dont understand the design concept of stenheim. Id say there are more amusing ways to spend 470,000 dkk.

 

[gleeds]

I heard the Steinhem 3s briefly in 2019 at The Show in CA. But unfortunately, my aural memory of that experience memory is faded. I like the simplicity of the aesthetic design, and the build quality appears first-rate. As for the question as to differences with Magico, YG, Piega, etc., my sense is the sameness starts and stops with the chosen cabinet material, aluminum. Each uses very different drivers and crossover topology and components. Efficiency, as someone offered above, can be deceiving for various reasons.

I have found the ability of an amplifier to couple well to a particular speaker has a good deal to do with a speaker's impedance curve characteristics, as well as things like the transformer design, damping factor, and whether or not an amplifier is a transformer or DC coupled design, even an OTL, etc.

Regarding compatibility with low-powered tube amplifiers (especially SE designs), may be hard-pressed to find one capable of powering a modern multi-way loudspeaker to full effect. Contradicting myself, I happened to hear a colleague's Wilson XVS earlier today powered by Lamm ML3s (GM-70 tubes), and it was breathtaking on a wide variety of music. On the other hand, I understand the RB1 845-based David Berning monoblocks do pretty well with modern multi-ways, Einstein OTLs could be interesting, and I am also intrigued by the Alieno 300B amplifiers using a solid state power supply.

I do believe it's unfortunate that speakers and amplifiers get pigeonholed into pairings of use X amplifiers with Y speakers. Just look at the big brands, and I think you will agree. IMO what makes our pursuit so much fun is staying open-minded, sharing your experiences with others, and venturing out to listen until you find the combination that makes your heart sing.

 

[caesar]

"Makes me wonder " why experienced audiophiles like you still read that nonsense /marketing.

Audiophiles would be far better of if they went to munchen to visit the 2 shows each year and trusted their own ears .

I don't usually read unless I am researching products. In those cases, I skim.

I find guys who compare gear - to draw out distinctions and differentiate products - of value. Valin and Fremer are the best because they compare, but obviously Valin failed here: Anyone with passion for the hobby and connections to manufacturers, would have tried different kinds of amps with higher efficiency speakers. I realize that as guys in this hobby get old, they switch to Solid State (even Myles B. Astor PhD has given up tubes for some swiss SS). But Valin has previously and recently reviewed Lamm, Zanden, HVAC, and Air Tight, among the musical tube stuff.

But, yes, generally I agree most of the stuff is out there is disgusting hype and marketing, with audio journalists humiliating themselves, and I am nauseated by that more than most guys

 

[the sound of Tao]

Indeed
Essentially , the best equipment should all converge in something similar .

Though sounding similar is nothing like sounds the same Andro.

Great speakers can offset the constraints of their topology but the type characteristics still are invariably there at some level. A box, horn, ESL, ribbon planar all have some level of their type traits but some are just better managed than others of their type.

It’s like when people say a tube amp is like a solid state or a solid state amp is tubelike… I’ve never heard an amp that was from either camp that was indistinguishable from the other kind, just clearly some are more blessed with less of their type constraints. Put the best of any two types together and that will make the fundamental difference more clear.

 

[morricab]

Though sounding similar is nothing like sounds the same Andro.

Great speakers can offset the constraints of their topology but the type characteristics still are invariably there at some level. A box, horn, ESL, ribbon planar all have some level of their type traits but some are just better managed than others of their type.

It’s like when people say a tube amp is like a solid state or a solid state amp is tubelike… I’ve never heard an amp that was from either camp that was indistinguishable from the other kind, just clearly some are more blessed with less of their type constraints. Put the best of any two types together and that will make the fundamental difference more clear.

That is why when someone is claiming their newest, latest and greatest class d amp (with or without GaN transistors) sounds just like a good tube amp, I call BS. Maybe to the uncritical listener there are similarities, however , I am quite sure a short listen is enough to spot the archetypal sound character.

 

[the sound of Tao]

That is why when someone is claiming their newest, latest and greatest class d amp (with or without GaN transistors) sounds just like a good tube amp, I call BS. Maybe to the uncritical listener there are similarities, however , I am quite sure a short listen is enough to spot the archetypal sound character.

I think sometimes when we hear something really good in gear but in isolation without any baseline reference for immediate comparison we can think in terms of things along the lines of a concept of a SS amp sounding tubelike or vice versa, but if you then switch over to a really good amp of the other type it immediately clarifies the fundamental difference between the types.

 

[Ron Resnick]

a SS amp sounding tubelike

I have never understood what this expression is supposed to mean, other than that the solid-state amplifier does not sound aggressive or edgy or bright. If one or more solid-state amplifiers actually sounded like tube amplifiers (in particular the "wetness" or "liquidity" of tube amplifiers) we would not need tube amplifiers, would we?

Some audiophiles buy tube amplifiers because they hear tube amplifiers as sounding something different than solid-state amplifiers.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Though sounding similar is nothing like sounds the same Andro.

All systems/ topologies should converge in sounding like music .

 

[the sound of Tao]

I have never understood what this expression is supposed to mean, other than that the solid-state amplifier does not sound aggressive or edgy or bright. If one or more solid-state amplifiers actually sounded like tube amplifiers (in particular the "wetness" or "liquidity" of tube amplifiers) we would not need tube amplifiers, would we?

Some audiophiles buy tube amplifiers because they hear tube amplifiers as sounding something different than solid-state amplifiers.

Exactly! The differentiation is more fundamental for me… we can set out a list of tick boxes for the qualities but really it’s a summative quality and yes, if they could sound the same there wouldn’t still be the different types.

 

[the sound of Tao]

All systems/ topologies should converge in sounding like music .

But should sound doesn’t mean does sound.

 

[andromedaaudio]

But should sound doesn’t mean does sound.

"Does" is a right that is only preserved for Horns / Sets

 

[the sound of Tao]

"Does" is a right that is only preserved for Horns / Sets

That’s just your game playing out Andro… I wasn’t making any distinction other than they don’t sound the same. Do you think that they do?

 

[andromedaaudio]

That’s just your game playing out Andro… I wasn’t making any distinction other than they don’t sound the same. Do you think that they do?

What do you think reading my comments over the years on WBF ?

 

[the sound of Tao]

What do you think reading my comments over the years on WBF ?

Wouldn’t it just be easier and more accurate for you to tell me… just sayn.

 

[morricab]

What do you think reading my comments over the years on WBF ?

Don’t you own CAT tube amps?

 

[morricab]

All systems/ topologies should converge in sounding like music .

This is unrealistic given that each topology and device type make different distortion patterns. Same with electro/mechanical transducers. All have different signatures. Unless you figure out how to make a full range plasma speaker where only ionized gas is the driver and amplification devices that are actually linear then there will be no convergence.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Don’t you own CAT tube amps?

I do think there was also some love for Boulder but not sure… though they definitely don’t converge with CAT.