Anyone Understand Design Approach of Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson, etc., to have High Sensitivity?

[Hyperion]

I would probably go with the newest Living Voice OBX-RW4 over these for a highish sensitivity cone/some speaker…those sounded awesome in Munich with a good 300b amp. I don’t think a 300b would be enough for the Alumine 3 or 5…just a gut feeling but could be wrong. The LV is good value in today’s market.

These are very different speakers suited for different listeners, amplification, rooms...etc.

Both can be considered "expensive" or "value for money" all depending on how you look at it. I have deep respect for them both.

And no, I wouldn't choose a 300B amplifier with Stenheim.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[andromedaaudio]

I sat about 30 min in the dartzeel / stenheim sweet spot .
They were playing to loud at times , the tw got sharp / overloaded .
Id take magico over stenheim and wilson based on what i heard in munich.
The magico M 6 needed another amp then the soulution

Regarding the topic question , this is a matter of unit sensitivity and internal wiring in the X over

 

[morricab]

These are very different speakers suited for different listeners, amplification, rooms...etc.

Both can be considered "expensive" or "value for money" all depending on how you look at it. I have deep respect for them both.

And no, I wouldn't choose a 300B amplifier with Stenheim.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

The designs might be somewhat different, however, both are using relatively high sensitivity paper drivers and soft dome tweeters and have benign impedance. This makes them
Both suited to lower powered amps and both emphasize subtlety and refinement over power dynamics. I disagree they are for different listeners and amps (although we agree the amp should probably be above single digits in watts). A more equal price comparison is the small Alumine where I would definitely take the LV speaker for similar money.

 

[morricab]

a bit apples and oranges as the OBX doesn't have real bass. the Alumine 5 is a full range transducer.

LV isn't really sold in the US fyi

As I said, I am quite familiar with the Alumine 5 so I know about how it sounds. I would not consider it a particularly powerful sounding speaker with a super potent bass…it always seemed more subtle and refined…like LV. Didn’t know about LV’s lack of distribution in US…easy for me to get both here. Based on Munich performance, the LV setup was far more natural and realistic sounding…but electronics were very different. Would be interesting to compare both with electronics that work well for both.

 

[morricab]

Steinheim sounds fine on headroom driven by absolare integrated. The tiger lilies song is nice too. The integrated is 845, hybrid 200w

Perfect candidate for the Ypsilon Phaeton integrated as well.

 

[morricab]

The music doesn't come out of the system, the playback time of the cd player is always the same, and the turntable has suddenly disappeared 2.43 min ... strange

Sounds just like the original!! ...scam...

 

[Hyperion]

The designs might be somewhat different, however, both are using relatively high sensitivity paper drivers and soft dome tweeters and have benign impedance. This makes them
Both suited to lower powered amps and both emphasize subtlety and refinement over power dynamics. I disagree they are for different listeners and amps (although we agree the amp should probably be above single digits in watts). A more equal price comparison is the small Alumine where I would definitely take the LV speaker for similar money.

I'm sorry, but there are very few things that these brands have in common besides offering bass reflex speakers.

Stenheim are among the most dynamic box speakers on the market which can be played loud and hard with minimal distorsion. Living Voice are much more delicate.

The sound characteristics are also very different.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[morricab]

I'm sorry, but there are very few things that these brands have in common besides offering bass reflex speakers.

Stenheim are among the most dynamic box speakers on the market which can be played loud and hard with minimal distorsion. Living Voice are much more delicate.

The sound characteristics are also very different.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

Of course the sound character is different…wasn’t even part of the discussion. Hearing both at length I would not say Stenheim are more dynamic. They might play louder without gross distortion but unless you are playing louder than is comfortable I’m a normal domestic environment you won’t reach either speakers limits. Probably a better comparison is with the Alumine 3. Anyway if you want superior dynamics in your he 20K class ((or 30k or whatever Alumine 3 costs) buy the Odeon Helix.

 

[Atmasphere]

I'm sorry, but there are very few things that these brands have in common besides offering bass reflex speakers.
are among the most dynamic box speakers on the market which can be played loud and hard with minimal distorsion. Living Voice are much more delicate.

The sound characteristics are also very different.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

The better the speaker, the more it should sound like other excellent speakers, i.e. like real music.

What is meant by 'box speakers'?

I think the speakers I have might be considered 'box speakers' since they are a box. They are 98dB and handle a lot of power and are field coil powered...

There is a thing called 'thermal compression' (caused by heating of the voice coils) that is a problem for lessor efficiency speakers. That is why so many horn advocates talk about the dynamic character of their speakers. ESLs can be very dynamic as well since they have no thermal compression at all, and their MO (electro-static field powered by a power supply) does not employ a magnetic field that can sag when current is applied to the voice coil.

Consequently although I'm sure this speaker sounds nice, I have trouble believing its 'among the most dynamic box speakers' out there since its efficiency tends to be in the lower or mid 90s. For example the Reference Ultime 2 is a 4 Ohm load claiming 95dB sensitivity. Once you've done the conversion from sensitivity to efficiency you find its only 92dB. Not bad, but there are a good number of speakers that are 10dB more efficient and I would expect they would also be more dynamic because they suffer less thermal compression.

 

[Hyperion]

The better the speaker, the more it should sound like other excellent speakers, i.e. like real music.

What is meant by 'box speakers'?

I think the speakers I have might be considered 'box speakers' since they are a box. They are 98dB and handle a lot of power and are field coil powered...

There is a thing called 'thermal compression' (caused by heating of the voice coils) that is a problem for lessor efficiency speakers. That is why so many horn advocates talk about the dynamic character of their speakers. ESLs can be very dynamic as well since they have no thermal compression at all, and their MO (electro-static field powered by a power supply) does not employ a magnetic field that can sag when current is applied to the voice coil.

Consequently although I'm sure this speaker sounds nice, I have trouble believing its 'among the most dynamic box speakers' out there since its efficiency tends to be in the lower or mid 90s. For example the Reference Ultime 2 is a 4 Ohm load claiming 95dB sensitivity. Once you've done the conversion from sensitivity to efficiency you find its only 92dB. Not bad, but there are a good number of speakers that are 10dB more efficient and I would expect they would also be more dynamic because they suffer less thermal compression.

I meant "box" in contrast to other principles (as in horn, open baffle, planar etc.).

The sensitivity on paper from Stenheim is relatively high. But as mentioned earlier, I do often prefer Stenheim with more powerful amplification in contrast to Living Voice which often sings beautifully with lower powered tubes.

With the right/proper amplification, I believe Stenheim to be among the most dynamic and satisfying in relation to the most obvious and closest competitors.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[andromedaaudio]

The better the speaker, the more it should sound like other excellent speakers, i.e. like real music.

Indeed
Essentially , the best equipment should all converge in something similar .

 

[morricab]

I meant "box" in contrast to other principles (as in horn, open baffle, planar etc.).

The sensitivity on paper from Stenheim is relatively high. But as mentioned earlier, I do often prefer Stenheim with more powerful amplification in contrast to Living Voice which often sings beautifully with lower powered tubes.

With the right/proper amplification, I believe Stenheim to be among the most dynamic and satisfying in relation to the most obvious and closest competitors.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

What SETs have tried Stenheims with?

 

[Golum]

Never ever heard any SET amp on Stenheims and i heard quite a few setups with them. Maybe NAT Magma could handle them properly (for example)

 

[morricab]

Never ever heard any SET amp on Stenheims and i heard quite a few setups with them. Maybe NAT Magma could handle them properly (for example)

Aries Cerat no problem…it even handled low sensitivity Boenickes easily. Amplifon SET42 se and bigger KRs as well. The new NAT single with GM70 should be up to it too. I think that could be a stellar match.

 

[caesar]

Valin's review of Stenheim is up on the analytical sound website. Sadly, he didn't even bother listening to the speaker with tube amps. Valin also recently an obituary for the founder of Air Tight, a man he called his "friend". Yet I am sure his Air Tight friend would have appreciated the publicity. Valin could have just sent an email, and those amps would have arrived in a few days!

And many audio fans would have appreciated Valin's take on this high efficiency speaker with tubes! Kind of a unique selling proposition of Stenheim...

Makes one wonder if what these guys write is heart felt or just fiction.

 

[Hyperion]

Valin's review of Stenheim is up on the analytical sound website. Sadly, he didn't even bother listening to the speaker with tube amps. Valin also recently an obituary for the founder of Air Tight, a man he called his "friend". Yet I am sure his Air Tight friend would have appreciated the publicity. Valin could have just sent an email, and those amps would have arrived in a few days!

And many audio fans would have appreciated Valin's take on this high efficiency speaker with tubes! Kind of a unique selling proposition of Stenheim...

Makes one wonder if what these guys write is heart felt or just fiction.

Valin seems to be more of a SS than a tube guy in general, which might be the simple answer.

You're right though of course, where Stenheim and Verity (also worth mentioning) are two out of relatively few box speakers on this level among the usual suspects that works well with low- to medium power tube amps in general.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[andromedaaudio]

Valin's review of Stenheim is up on the analytical sound website. Sadly, he didn't even bother listening to the speaker with tube amps. Valin also recently an obituary for the founder of Air Tight, a man he called his "friend". Yet I am sure his Air Tight friend would have appreciated the publicity. Valin could have just sent an email, and those amps would have arrived in a few days!

And many audio fans would have appreciated Valin's take on this high efficiency speaker with tubes! Kind of a unique selling proposition of Stenheim...

Makes one wonder if what these guys write is heart felt or just fiction.

"Makes me wonder " why experienced audiophiles like you still read that nonsense /marketing.

Audiophiles would be far better of if they went to munchen to visit the 2 shows each year and trusted their own ears .

 

[Hyperion]

"Makes me wonder " why experienced audiophiles like you still read that nonsense /marketing.

Audiophiles would be far better of if they went to munchen to visit the 2 shows each year and trusted their own ears .

What's even better is to establish a good relationship with a couple of professional dealers with the potential to demonstrate the loudspeakers in a proper environment which might also include the home of the client. Nothing beats that, where a show is more appropriate for browsing and interacting with the manufacturers.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[andromedaaudio]

What's even better is to establish a good relationship with a couple of professional dealers with the potential to demonstrate the loudspeakers in a proper environment which might also include the home of the client. Nothing beats that, where a show is more appropriate for browsing and interacting with the manufacturers.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

Off course thats not better.
A dealer will advise the brands he carries .
You will miss out on a whole lot of other great products from.manufacturers if you develop a close ( read narrow minded) dealer approach .

You being a dealer you have a limited product line off course .
You sell either what you like or what sells good in general.
Given the fact that most consumers get their advice from reviewers /magazines / dealers the doom loop is in place .
A lot dont buy what they really want / like themselves and end up in a endless gear buying cable swapping merry go round

 

[Hyperion]

Off course thats not better.
A dealer will advise the brands he carries .
You will miss out on a whole lot of other great products from.manufacturers if you develop a close ( read narrow minded) dealer approach .

You being a dealer you have a limited product line off course .
You sell either what you like or what sells good in general.
Given the fact that most consumers get their advice from reviewers /magazines / dealers the doom loop is in place .
A lot dont buy what they really want / like themselves and end up in a endless gear buying cable swapping merry go round

There are many great dealers to choose from out there representing many potential brands. That's not a limitation, it's an opportunity.

I would ultimately recommend what turns out to be the product best suited for the particular client after getting to know him as well as I can. This is the opposite of pushing boxes in the way that you describe which is not beneficial to anyone.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se