Anyone Understand Design Approach of Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson, etc., to have High Sensitivity?

[bonzo75]

I do think there was also some love for Boulder but not sure… though they definitely don’t converge with CAT.

wow caught you reading his posts

 

[the sound of Tao]

wow caught you reading his posts

Whoops… it’s a guilty pleasure… I should add that it’s a poor substitute for self flagellation.

 

[Ron Resnick]

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All systems/ topologies should converge in sounding like music .

This may seem right superficially -- like a meme -- but it is incorrect.

1) As this is a subjective hobby there are different views as to what reproduced music should sound like.

2) This ignores the several alternative, but not mutually exclusive, objectives of high-end audio.

3) This ignores that each of us selects subjectively different cues in reproduced sound which connect us mentally and emotionally to our memory of the sound of live music. (This goes back to my explanation of why our stereos sound so different even though we all hear substantially the same thing sitting in the same place in the concert hall.)

4) This ignores that each of us has different sonic preferences in reproduced sound.

Because of the foregoing it makes perfect sense that different audio components sound different, and that different sounding components can achieve success in the marketplace.

 

[andromedaaudio]

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This may seem right superficially -- like a meme -- but it is incorrect.

1) As this is a subjective hobby there are different views as to what reproduced music should sound like.

2) This ignores the several alternative, but not mutually exclusive, objectives of high-end audio.

3) This ignores that each of us selects subjectively different cues in reproduced sound which connect us mentally and emotionally to our memory of the sound of live music. (This goes back to my explanation of why our stereos sound so different even though we all hear substantially the same thing sitting in the same place in the concert hall.)

4) This ignores that each of us has different sonic preferences in reproduced sound.

Because of the foregoing it makes perfect sense that different audio components sound different, and that different sounding components can achieve success in the marketplace.

1 2 3 4 are basically all audioforum opinions , which can be ignored .

Top audio systems should ideally converge into something similar (if their aim is hifi) hi fi delity off course

 

[gleeds]

I have never understood what this expression is supposed to mean, other than that the solid-state amplifier does not sound aggressive or edgy or bright. If one or more solid-state amplifiers actually sounded like tube amplifiers (in particular the "wetness" or "liquidity" of tube amplifiers) we would not need tube amplifiers, would we?

Some audiophiles buy tube amplifiers because they hear tube amplifiers as sounding something different than solid-state amplifiers.

Ron, et al, I have heard several tube amplifiers that sound quite bright to my ear, so that characteristic is not IMO the domain of using tubes or silicon. As you have indicated, in your system, different tube amplifiers sound very different from one another based on tube type, topology, and the designer's voicing. The same is true for SS. As a Boulder amplifier sounds nothing like a Gryphon and a VAC sounds nothing like a Lamm SE.

Ultimately, one must listen to an amplifier in the context of their chosen loudspeakers, source components, cables, and listening preferences. Does this make a case for utilizing seasoned retailers of high integrity who know how to craft a system based on years of hands-on experience with many different types of components? You bet it does! That said, sharing our experiences in a system context on the Forum can help narrow the choices since one cannot possibly demo or for that matter research all available choices.

 

[the sound of Tao]

1) As this is a subjective hobby there are different views as to what reproduced music should sound like.

​

Stenheim? What are they doing differently from Magico, YG, Wilson​

Even in the OP the examples of speakers listed are expressions within the same topology but there isn’t even any singular convergence there… the designers at each of these box speakers companies aren’t sharing the same views on what speakers should sound like… all are quite divergent sounding and rely on the differences they create to continue to exist.

 

[bonzo75]

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This may seem right superficially -- like a meme -- but it is incorrect.

1) As this is a subjective hobby there are different views as to what reproduced music should sound like.

2) This ignores the several alternative, but not mutually exclusive, objectives of high-end audio.

3) This ignores that each of us selects subjectively different cues in reproduced sound which connect us mentally and emotionally to our memory of the sound of live music. (This goes back to my explanation of why our stereos sound so different even though we all hear substantially the same thing sitting in the same place in the concert hall.)

4) This ignores that each of us has different sonic preferences in reproduced sound.

Because of the foregoing it makes perfect sense that different audio components sound different, and that different sounding components can achieve success in the marketplace.

5) ignores that some have no exposure live music
6) ignores that some don’t have much exposure to different gear
7) ignores that some buy for non sonic preferences

 

[the sound of Tao]

5) ignores that some have no exposure live music

5b) ignores that some don’t even like live music and prefer reproduced music. So what is sonic convergence in the context of music even.

 

[gleeds]

We have some very very very nice tube guys - Tobian Soundsystems for example

 

[gleeds]

Golum, I really admire Tobian products I have heard them many times connected to our SS amplifiers and found they have the superior dynamics and coherence to many bigger brands offerings - a sound that is hard to achieve with large multi-way loudspeakers. Fred, Rob and I of Lampi NA (US distributors for Tobian) are discussing getting a set out to the West Coast so more people can experience them.

Have you heard of Swiss made Airplain loudspeakers, a new firm doing interesting work?

airplain - active speaker systems - swiss made - since 2021

Airplain builds active loudspeaker systems that set new standards in various fields. In terms of sound, design and technology.

airplain.ch

 

[Golum]

.... (US distributors for Tobian) are discussing getting a set out to the West Coast so more people can experience them.

Have you heard of Swiss made Airplain loudspeakers, a new firm doing interesting work?

airplain - active speaker systems - swiss made - since 2021

Airplain builds active loudspeaker systems that set new standards in various fields. In terms of sound, design and technology.

airplain.ch

Actually it was me who connected and persuade them to start working with Gunter and pity is that more people don't have a chance to hear them as they sound as you described above - especially driven by his tube electronics as I have to frank I never heard them with SS gear.
For "Airplane" I heard but never had a chance to hear in person (yet) - need to work on that aspect as soon as I find some time . But now I'm more into Clarysis

 

[morricab]

Actually it was me who connected and persuade them to start working with Gunter and pity is that more people don't have a chance to hear them as they sound as you described above - especially driven by his tube electronics as I have to frank I never heard them with SS gear.
For "Airplane" I heard but never had a chance to hear in person (yet) - need to work on that aspect as soon as I find some time . But now I'm more into Clarysis

Get some new speakers?

 

[Golum]

Get some new speakers?

Nope - love my Klimts...but tbh would love to have Minuete. Issue I have is limited space behind the speakers....lets see

 

[Atmasphere]

That is why when someone is claiming their newest, latest and greatest class d amp (with or without GaN transistors) sounds just like a good tube amp, I call BS. Maybe to the uncritical listener there are similarities, however , I am quite sure a short listen is enough to spot the archetypal sound character.

Its a good idea to base comments on experience rather than conjecture...

I find it amusing that no-one argues that harmonics of fundamental tones create the unique sounds of musical instruments, yet so many people somehow refuse to acknowledge that harmonics generated by an amplifier will also create a tonality, just like it does in a musical instrument.

Put another way, the distortion of an amplifier is its 'sonic signature'. That fact allows you to understand how it might be possible for a solid state amp to sound like a tube amp or vice versa. Its all in how the distortion is made. Distortion modifies the sound of signals passing thru the amp, rather than being a separate signal so many dB down from the actual signal being amplified.

If you want to make a tube amp sound solid state, you find a way to suppress the 2nd and 3rd harmonics so the higher ordered harmonics it makes are not masked. If you want to make a solid state amp sound like a tube amp (which IMO is a more 'natural' sound, like real music) then you have to find a way to make the 2nd and 3rd harmonics mask the higher orders- and maybe not even make the higher orders if possible.

Simply speaking the amp, tube or solid state, must have a musical sonic signature; another way of saying it must have a benign distortion signature.

Class D offers a way to do that. There are enough comments online and even a review or two that verify this is so. I've explained quite a lot how it is that class D offers this ability. Whether you chose to call it BS or not won't change engineering facts. Nor, apparently. will a few minutes or even months of listening.

 

[gleeds]

Actually it was me who connected and persuade them to start working with Gunter and pity is that more people don't have a chance to hear them as they sound as you described above - especially driven by his tube electronics as I have to frank I never heard them with SS gear.
For "Airplane" I heard but never had a chance to hear in person (yet) - need to work on that aspect as soon as I find some time . But now I'm more into Clarysis

Thanks Golum, appreciate the insight and your efforts. We use our Class A WestminsterLab amplifiers with the Tobian combined with either the Lampizator Horizon or new Poseidon DAC. I should get a chance to hear them with a 300B amplifier shortly.

 

[VPN]

I heard the Stenheim Reference Two in Munich 2022, and didn't like their sound in that room/system. I had the impression that the tweeters were too low and the lower woofer too close to the floor. In Munich 2023, with the new aluminium feet (which seems to have adjustable height), they sounded quite good, great bass, open upper frequencies, good vocals. Looking forward to listening to them in a better system and room.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I have not been impressed with the Stenheim sound yet .
I take the lower eff. Rockport Lyra anytime of the day

 

[Audio_Karma]

What about the All New Node Hylixa Signature Speakers ?

https://www.node-audio.com

One of the very best speakers ever made ??

Best Hi-fi Of 2023 | The Ear

The best hi-fi of 2023 is a collection of products chosen by our reviewers and thus represents the best that we have heard since November 2022.

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Node Hylixa Signature For Maximum Musical Reward | The Ear

Before the Node Hylixa Signature was a glimmer in its designer’s eye we made a factory visit to Node Audio in Cambridge. A review of the original Hylixa was

www.the-ear.net

 

[gleeds]

A_K
This is an interesting loudspeaker due to its enclosure, use of a wide-band balanced mode radiator driver "BMR" and unique woofer loading. All of these add up to a novel approach to loudspeakers design. I have some concerns as to resolution levels as past BMR driver applications by Naim have lacked resolution. The selection of a mid-level ring radiator is also a concern. The truth is in listening and I will be interested to do so. If a member purchases one or enjoys a lengthy audition it would make for an interesting separate thread.

 

[buzzlulu]

past BMR driver applications by Naim have lacked resolution

As a former +25 year Naim owner I could not agree more with this statement. The Naim Ovators single handedly killed their speaker business (well that and the merger with Focal). As a former owner and listener of multiple Naim speakers (which were excellent) the Ovators with BMR driver were a complete disaster.