American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[adyc]

The very top of the worm-drive dial is visible in the top photo between the motor case and the turntable plinth. Turning the dial moves the motor mount toward and away from the platter, allowing the user to adjust thread tension and the resulting sound.

Techdas AF3P also can do that.

 

[XV-1]

Peter. What is the price of the table?

Does that include David flying out to do the install?

Cheers

 

[PeterA]

Peter. What is the price of the table?

Does that include David flying out to do the install?

Cheers

David will be doing all of the installations around the world. I do not know the final price of the turntable.

I simply started this thread because the video was posted of the new turntable in a thread about the AS2000. It’s an interesting subject and a fascinating turntable, so I wanted to share what I know about, both what I’ve learned by visiting the factory and talking to David and also by helping to install it and listening to it. I asked David if I could start a thread on the subject and he said “Sure, post anything you want.”

I am not a conduit to or messenger for Vintage Audio Specialties, Inc. or David Karmeli as has been suggested. If anyone wants to know more about the turntable, I’m sure he can just contact David directly. He is not on this forum and is not reading this thread.

 

[XV-1]

David will be doing all of the installations around the world.

I do not know the final price.

Thanks Peter. What was the price of THE AS2000.

I assume this table would be at least double.

 

[PeterA]

Thanks Peter. What was the price of THE AS2000.

I assume this table would be at least double.

As I recall, when the AS2000 was released it was priced in the neighborhood of the TechDAS Air Force one. I suspect The Absolute Nothing will be in the neighborhood of the Air Force Zero, but I really have no idea. As with the AS 2000, the new turntable is a very limited production. I do not know how many have already been sold.

 

[Audiohertz2]

The facets on the motor case and turntable base were exceedingly difficult to design and cut. The precision and finishing are extraordinary. The main engineer wrote one million lines of code. The various sections are in the CNC machines for a total of 500 hours of machining time. Each facet is different. The idea is to manage and control the residences without sucking out the life and over damping the sound There is a purpose to every cut but it was extremely difficult to figure out and manufacturer.

The motor is very powerful but I could detect no vibration or sound of any kind. The platter of my AS 2000 free spins from 33.33 RPM for 30 minutes before coming to a stop. The free spin time of this platter is likely greater. The high inertia and lack of friction enable the platter to rotate at an extremely accurate and consistent speed.

The integrated stand has separate isolated platforms further minimizing the effect of the motor on the turntable.

View attachment 128977

30 mins running on , cant imagine how long @45 RPM ...!

What an effort by DDK ..!

Many times in Audio the obvious design way forward , doesn't pan out sonically, improvements go sideways or worse backwards, making it happen as he has here is everything!


Regards

 

[djsina2]

On the other thread you said it’s a true air bearing like the AS-2000 with no bearing and no contact:

The American Sound Turntable- Beyond's Minimalist!

Quite something to comprehend 130kg+ balancing on a thin sliver of air. Just that in itself is beyond impressive. Congrats seems too low key a phrase to pass on. The platter still rides on a bearing, right? It’s just greatly reducing the weight on it I believe like most air bearing turntables?

www.whatsbestforum.com

Yet on previous posts about the AS-2000 you continually mention low friction on the bearing:

High Mass thread Drive

Hi Peter, beautiful turntable! I have a question about its operation. I see that the motor pulley has two levels, which I assume are for 33.3 and 45 rpm respectively, so you switch speed by physically moving the string from one level to the other. If positive, is the string you are using...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Esoteric Grandioso T1 turntable arrives; G1X Master Clock coming.

IMHO if there is anything to be borrowed it’s borrowed from La Platine Verdier not Continuum Caliburn. Full or partial magnetic levitation of a heavy platter is successfully used by Verdier turntable since 1979. It's a shame that the la platine magnum never went into series production, probably...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Natural Sound

Interestingly, Cessaro went away from wood horns to some kind of synthetic stone polymer because it was more dense and "dead" Would have been interesting to hear the same speaker with a horn from both materials to see if they really made a good decision there or not. I suspect that decision may...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[PeterA]

On the other thread you said it’s a true air bearing like the AS-2000 with no bearing and no contact:

The American Sound Turntable- Beyond's Minimalist!

Quite something to comprehend 130kg+ balancing on a thin sliver of air. Just that in itself is beyond impressive. Congrats seems too low key a phrase to pass on. The platter still rides on a bearing, right? It’s just greatly reducing the weight on it I believe like most air bearing turntables?

www.whatsbestforum.com

Yet on previous posts about the AS-2000 you continually mention low friction on the bearing:

High Mass thread Drive

Hi Peter, beautiful turntable! I have a question about its operation. I see that the motor pulley has two levels, which I assume are for 33.3 and 45 rpm respectively, so you switch speed by physically moving the string from one level to the other. If positive, is the string you are using...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Esoteric Grandioso T1 turntable arrives; G1X Master Clock coming.

IMHO if there is anything to be borrowed it’s borrowed from La Platine Verdier not Continuum Caliburn. Full or partial magnetic levitation of a heavy platter is successfully used by Verdier turntable since 1979. It's a shame that the la platine magnum never went into series production, probably...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Natural Sound

Interestingly, Cessaro went away from wood horns to some kind of synthetic stone polymer because it was more dense and "dead" Would have been interesting to hear the same speaker with a horn from both materials to see if they really made a good decision there or not. I suspect that decision may...

www.whatsbestforum.com

There is friction caused by the air under pressure on the surface of the base and the bottom of the platter. If there were no friction it would spin continuously indefinitely. But it in fact stops free-spinning after 30 minutes from 33.333 rpm. I made a video of this on my YouTube channel. I presume the new turntable will have a longer free spin to rest time, but I do not know if this has been tested.

Air is not frictionless. The pressure of the air and the rate of flow all affect the friction. The friction is audible as it creates resonances in the base. David tested many different pumps to find one that delivers air for the best sound. The platter is supported by a cushion of air. The only contact is with air. It is a very clever design.

I hope that is more clear.

 

[djsina2]

There is friction caused by the air under pressure on the surface of the base and the bottom of the platter. If there were no friction it would spin continuously indefinitely. But it in fact stops free-spinning after 30 minutes from 33.333 rpm. I made a video of this on my YouTube channel. I presume the new turntable will have a longer free spin to rest time, but I do not know if this has been tested.

Air is not frictionless. The pressure of the air and the rate of flow all affect the friction. The friction is audible as it creates resonances in the base. David tested many different pumps to find one that delivers air for the best sound. The platter is supported by a cushion of air. The only contact is with air. It is a very clever design.

I hope that is more clear.

So when you say “bearing” you’re referring to air? But you also mention in one of those threads “almost no bearing wear”. What does this mean?

 

[PeterA]

So when you say “bearing” you’re referring to air? But you also mention in one of those threads “almost no bearing wear”. What does this mean?

I know you’re trying to figure out how this works. It’s one of the major challenges of turntable design as far as I understand. I am not an engineer and I do not know how to describe in technical terms what is happening. The platter is supported by a cushion of air. The design is proprietary. I suggest you contact David Karmeli directly and see what you can learn from him. Good luck. At this point I’ve said all I’m going to say about how the platter is supported.

 

[djsina2]

I know you’re trying to figure out how this works. It’s one of the major challenges of turntable design as far as I understand. I am not an engineer and I do not know how to describe in technical terms what is happening. The platter is supported by a cushion of air. The design is proprietary. I suggest you contact David Karmeli directly and see what you can learn from him. Good luck. At this point I’ve said all I’m going to say about how the platter is supported.

In your other threads you said you personally took apart and studied the bearings of the Micro, AS-1000, AS-2000.

 

[PeterA]

In your other threads you said you personally took apart and studied the bearings of the Micro, AS-1000, AS-2000.

That is true. I have taken them all apart and reassembled them. I understand how they work. It’s just not my place to share everything with you on a public forum and I just don’t seem to be able to describe it to your satisfaction. Good luck trying to find a satisfactory explanation from someone else.

 

[Bobvin]

Peter, the Vyger platter will not spin at all until the pump supplies the air pressure to levitate it. I assume the same is true for the AS tables?

 

[Lagonda]

The cuttouts in the platter and the base of the TT are made in a angle/dimension that centers the platter under pressure, the correct pressure is also important for best sound and lowest air loss during rotation. A sudden total air los during rotation could damage the air bearing surface. My Maplenoll air bearing is made of hardened steel on the potential friction areas, i have had total air loss during rotation on occasion without damage, my platter is "only " 50 kg. If i disconnect the belt during rotation at 33,33 rpm, it rotates for 40 minutes before coming to a total standstill, i have a suspicion that the inflow of air into the purposely roughly granulated inside of the bearing ads some propulsion after disconnecting the belt.

 

[djsina2]

That is true. I have taken them all apart and reassembled them. I understand how they work. It’s just not my place to share everything with you on a public forum and I just don’t seem to be able to describe it to your satisfaction. Good luck trying to find a satisfactory explanation from someone else.

Correct, you have not described it in any consistent way.

 

[Lagonda]

Correct, you have not described it in any consistent way.

You can find pictures of the Micro Seiki air bearing on the internet, it will give you a general idea of its working/consruction.

 

[Audiohertz2]

There seems to be an intent to tear this design apart than to understand it , makes no sense really ..!


Regards

 

[andromedaaudio]

There seems to be an intent to tear this design apart than to understand it , makes no sense really ..!


Regards

May be argonaut can explain.

All joking aside , id love to hear the Kharma / Lamm / TT set up .

This is a Set amplifier i might like actually.

 

[djsina2]

There seems to be an intent to tear this design apart than to understand it , makes no sense really ..!


Regards

Not at all, I think people want to understand it because it’s such an interesting looking piece. The marketing speak is unfortunately bordering OMA at times though. It’s like when Mike L got his Esoteric, lots of talk about how the thing worked. Let’s face it very few people on this forum have the slightest inkling of anything technical but we still find it interesting how different all these designs are.

 

[Lee]

Interesting design!