American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[djsina2]

What arm(s) would you use on The Absolute Nothing?

He should make his own.

Beyond that, if you needed a budget arm like the 3012R the ViV is much better.

 

[PeterA]

The ideal location of the motor case is on a separate rack from the TT. The Nothing racks basically stops the floor coupling of the two racks. The only mechanical connection is the thread driving the platter.

That is right. And the tension and type of thread can be optimized for minimal influence of the motor on the platter. This all effects the sound.

The Nothing Racks have isolation built into them, but the top platform is one piece. My wood rack with steel plates has similar technology to the Nothing Rack. David and I worked on them concurrently and shared developments. He liked that I was able to separate my motor from the turntable (Micro Seiki) at the time and I followed this with the AS2000. This idea was adapted and advanced in the new stand design for The Absolute Nothing. I will not share the details, but it is a very clever solution to the problem. It provides both an extremely stable platform but also isolates the two units from each other. It is an integral part of the design of the turntable.

 

[PeterA]

He should make his own.

Beyond that, if you needed a budget arm like the 3012R the ViV is much better.

It has nothing to do with budget. Performance is the only criteria. The 3012R needs to be set up properly. The customers for the new table have no such cost constraints. Curiously, none seem to use the arm you suggest. Over time, we may learn what owners decide to use. It seems kind of silly to speculate.

 

[trekpilot]

The facets on the motor case and turntable base were exceedingly difficult to design and cut. The precision and finishing are extraordinary. The main engineer wrote one million lines of code. The various sections are in the CNC machines for a total of 500 hours of machining time. Each facet is different. The idea is to manage and control the residences without sucking out the life and over damping the sound There is a purpose to every cut but it was extremely difficult to figure out and manufacturer.

The stainless steel of the platter is a special alloy that does not get magnetized from the machining process. This was discovered to cause problems in the AS 2000 with the powerful magnets of some cartridges. The upper platter of the AS 2000 was changed to this different alloy and the entire platter of the new turntable is of this alloy.

The motor is very powerful but I could detect no vibration or sound of any kind. The platter of my AS 2000 free spins from 33.33 RPM for 30 minutes before coming to a stop. The free spin time of this platter is likely greater. The high inertia and lack of friction enable the platter to rotate at an extremely accurate and consistent speed.

The integrated stand has separate isolated platforms further minimizing the effect of the motor on the turntable.

Peter,
Do you know if there was any type of FEA done on the 3D models to find the one that controlled resonance the best? I would think it would be cost prohibitive to manufacture multiple samples for a listening test..

I'm assuming that a 300 series stainless was used for the platter as this series is non magnetic for the most part.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,
Do you know if there was any type of FEA done on the 3D models to find the one that controlled resonance the best? I would think it would be cost prohibitive to manufacture multiple samples for a listening test..

I'm assuming that a 300 series stainless was used for the platter as this series is non magnetic for the most part.

Hello trekpilot,
I do not know those details. I have the impression from following this project that at this level David did not feel very restricted by research and development costs.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

David Karmeli has worked for five years on his latest, and likely, final turntable design, The Absolute Nothing. The name is based on the idea that the turntable does not add or remove anything from the information imbedded in the record groove. This is an ultra high mass thread drive design and the culmination of what David has learned about turntable design over the past several decades. To improve on the AS2000 design, he had to go to extremes.

Here are some of the details: The platter weighs 300 lbs. The base weighs about 600 lbs, the motor unit weighs about 100 lbs. The stand, an integral part of the design, weighs another 350 lbs or so. The motor casing is machined from a single block of stainless steel. It is the same Pabst motor as in the AS2000, but now has a three phase motor controller. Rather than the five digit speed display, the new turntable has a strobe on the platter. The massive platter floats on a cushion of air, just like the AS2000. The platter is wider and taller but can be driven easily by the thin thread for minimal contact with the motor pulley/flywheel. The massive base has an irregular pattern of facets on its surface that are designed to control the internal resonances in the base and draw them away from the platter. There are isolation devices integrated into the motor unit, the stand, the arm mounts, and the footers. The motor controller has a worm-drive mechanism that allows one to adjust the thread tension. Motor torque and speed can be fine tuned. Everything is designed with a purpose.

I first saw drawings for this turntable a couple of years ago. David has been working on this for the last five years. CDK84, a fellow WBF member, and I visited the factory and met David a month ago, and then again last week to oversee the move from the factory to the first owner's listening room. After helping to assemble the turntable, David set up the SME 3012R tonearm and Neumann cartridge.

It was clear from the moment the Neumann stylus hit the first groove that this turntable takes the presentation to the next level. There is an uncanny calmness. The presentation is utterly relaxed yet somehow full of energy. The music comes alive in the room and the musicians are present in front of the listener. What this turntable does better than any other turntable I have heard is remove the sense that there is anything mechanical between the listener and the performance captured on the record. My AS2000 does this very well, but The Absolute Nothing takes it further by a margin I did not think was possible.

There is nothing in the presentation that is emphasized, just the ease of the performers in the room. My simple take is that the bass primarily, but also the rest of the information on the record is not corrupted or obscured by the mechanical nature of other turntables. There is more information that comes through to the cartridge and tonearm. When the arm and cartridge are at the level of the 3012R and the Neumann, it seems as if all of the music captured in the vinyl comes through, at least more than I have heard from any other table. There is just more of everything presented naturally. Nothing seems missing because there is just so much more music flowing forth.

I listened until 5:30 in the morning and left for Boston a couple of hours later driving for hours to hear a chamber concert of harp, flute, and strings later that night. Having heard the new turntable in an all Lamm Signature and Karma Midi Grand Exquisite system, followed so closely by a live chamber concert, it is clear to me that David has narrowed the gap between the live and reproduced pretty dramatically.

"Nothing between the listener and the recording" - David's description gets to the essence of this new turntable. It is also what is behind his approach to system set up. David Karmeli has achieved something truly remarkable here, and I could see his satisfaction as he listened. The pride of a designer working hard and then achieving success. I feel fortunate to have witnessed it and heard it as he did for that first time.

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Three videos:

Just one word from me......AWESOME !

 

[exupgh12]

What an incredible design and flawless execution! This table is truly the stuff dreams are made of. Congratulations, David, on creating such a magnificent piece.

 

[mtemur]

Congratulations! It’s looking good. A string without a knot would be better cause I know from experience that knot affects performance.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Imagine that...a knotless thread harder to realise than 130kg platter resting on air, lol.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

It must sound wonderful…

 

[dcathro]

Congratulations to David and others involved in the design of this behemoth!

 

[dcathro]

It must sound wonderful…

I think, according to the designers, the concept is that it has no sound

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I think, according to the designers, the concept is that it has no sound

Lord, . Regardless I am sure it is quite the kit, though my wife thought it looked horrid. I told her no worries it is way beyond our budget.

 

[cdk84]

TimA +1

 

[cdk84]

It has been my privilege to hear an A-B comparison of The Absolute Nothing turntable to the modified AS1000 that was previously in the system.

In my listening experience, there have been times that the first note or two have proven determinative of ‘something different'.

That was the case here. There was a new level of transparency, of ‘not-there-ness’ from the front end of the system, meaning the turntable / arm / cartridge that my ears perceived immediately, but that took a while for my mind to process.

I simply had to make a new place in my head for what I was being given by this system —but what I was Not being given, as well. I believe that’s why it took a little while to understand the experience of The Absolute Nothing: I had to recalibrate my mind to the new input.

Said simply, I experienced immensely less between the Ella Fitzgerald performance and me than ever before.

Sometimes I hear Ella ’thinking on the fly’ when she sings, as in “April in Paris” where, just before the song ends, she changes the timbre of her voice to mimic Louis Armstrong’s most recent trumpet tone. But on this solo recording, Ella is straight ahead, not thinking, but simply presenting what she knew was the interpretation of the song as She wanted it to sound.

Harry Pearson used to speak about ‘the lifting of a veil’ when something was revealed to him. In This instance, there weren’t any veils left: it was just Ella and me.

I Told you it was a privilege.

 

[bonzo75]

It has been my privilege to hear an A-B comparison of The Absolute Nothing turntable to the modified AS1000 that was previously in the system.

Both with the Neumann?

 

[cdk84]

@Republicoftexas69 wrote: "Lord, . Regardless I am sure it is quite the kit, though my wife thought it looked horrid. I told her no worries it is way beyond our budget."

When it comes to unaffordability —at least as far as My wallet might reach-- I understand and concur.

While I understand the eye-roll, I would like to add that, when I first saw this sculptural object at the place of manufacture, I had turned a corner ‘and there it was’: I simply could not avert my eyes.

This turntable has tremendous presence.

While I don’t know your wife, I suspect that —were she to be the kind of person who revisits things after a first impression— she might just look differently upon The Absolute Nothing, particularly were she able to experience it in person.

I happen to have been in awe of it from the moment I saw it. That said, my appreciation has grown into affection with more time spent in its company.

As we say in the car world, some vehicles are ’not for the faint of heart’. This turntable’s appearance might not appeal to all visual tastes; it’s sound, however, is its raison d’etre.

 

[cdk84]

@bonzo75 wrote: "Both with the Neumann?"

Yours is an excellent question.

I have heard both the AS2000 and The Absolute Nothing with the Neumann, but not in this same listening room

 

[bonzo75]

@bonzo75 wrote: "Both with the Neumann?"

Yours is an excellent question.

I have heard both the AS2000 and The Absolute Nothing with the Neumann, but not in this same listening room

Ok, so the AB comparison you mentioned was done with which cartridge?

 

[cdk84]

@bonzo75

The first several listening sessions at this location were with an uprated AS1000 table, using an SME 3012r arm, SME proprietary cable and a van den Hul Colibri.

The Absolute Nothing listening was with the same arm and cable using the Neumann cartridge mounted in a different SME headshell. I was unable to remain on site long enough to hear the Colibri in the other 3012r arm. ( I Hate schedule conflicts, but had to leave for a previous commitment; it was, sadly, unavoidable )

I hope this is helpful.