American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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David Karmeli has worked for five years on his latest, and likely, final turntable design, The Absolute Nothing. The name is based on the idea that the turntable does not add or remove anything from the information imbedded in the record groove. This is an ultra high mass thread drive design and the culmination of what David has learned about turntable design over the past several decades. To improve on the AS2000 design, he had to go to extremes.

Here are some of the details: The platter weighs 300 lbs. The base weighs about 600 lbs, the motor unit weighs about 100 lbs. The stand, an integral part of the design, weighs another 350 lbs or so. The motor casing is machined from a single block of stainless steel. It is the same Pabst motor as in the AS2000, but now has a three phase motor controller. Rather than the five digit speed display, the new turntable has a strobe on the platter. The massive platter floats on a cushion of air, just like the AS2000. The platter is wider and taller but can be driven easily by the thin thread for minimal contact with the motor pulley/flywheel. The massive base has an irregular pattern of facets on its surface that are designed to control the internal resonances in the base and draw them away from the platter. There are isolation devices integrated into the motor unit, the stand, the arm mounts, and the footers. The motor controller has a worm-drive mechanism that allows one to adjust the thread tension. Motor torque and speed can be fine tuned. Everything is designed with a purpose.

I first saw drawings for this turntable a couple of years ago. David has been working on this for the last five years. CDK84, a fellow WBF member, and I visited the factory and met David a month ago, and then again last week to oversee the move from the factory to the first owner's listening room. After helping to assemble the turntable, David set up the SME 3012R tonearm and Neumann cartridge.

It was clear from the moment the Neumann stylus hit the first groove that this turntable takes the presentation to the next level. There is an uncanny calmness. The presentation is utterly relaxed yet somehow full of energy. The music comes alive in the room and the musicians are present in front of the listener. What this turntable does better than any other turntable I have heard is remove the sense that there is anything mechanical between the listener and the performance captured on the record. My AS2000 does this very well, but The Absolute Nothing takes it further by a margin I did not think was possible.

There is nothing in the presentation that is emphasized, just the ease of the performers in the room. My simple take is that the bass primarily, but also the rest of the information on the record is not corrupted or obscured by the mechanical nature of other turntables. There is more information that comes through to the cartridge and tonearm. When the arm and cartridge are at the level of the 3012R and the Neumann, it seems as if all of the music captured in the vinyl comes through, at least more than I have heard from any other table. There is just more of everything presented naturally. Nothing seems missing because there is just so much more music flowing forth.

I listened until 5:30 in the morning and left for Boston a couple of hours later driving for hours to hear a chamber concert of harp, flute, and strings later that night. Having heard the new turntable in an all Lamm Signature and Karma Midi Grand Exquisite system, followed so closely by a live chamber concert, it is clear to me that David has narrowed the gap between the live and reproduced pretty dramatically.

"Nothing between the listener and the recording" - David's description gets to the essence of this new turntable. It is also what is behind his approach to system set up. David Karmeli has achieved something truly remarkable here, and I could see his satisfaction as he listened. The pride of a designer working hard and then achieving success. I feel fortunate to have witnessed it and heard it as he did for that first time.

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Three videos:



 

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PeterA

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Needs to make his own tonearm.

David actually tried and has been studying tonearm design for years. He does not know how to improve on the SME 3012 R, particularly when it comes to the natural bass presentation.

There is a reason that owners of the American Sound turntables replace their expensive and modern tonearms with the SME. The owner of this new turntable will likely end up with a few.
 
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Lagonda

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Very cool in action ! The design has grown on me since i saw the first still pictures. In the videos the artsy looks combined with the overpowering size have a different impact. :) I am sure it is even more stunning in real life.
 

trekpilot

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Apr 30, 2018
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As a Tool and Die Maker I really can appreciate the time and effort put into the CAD design, programming and the machining. As Lagonda stated the more I look at it the more I like it. Congrats David!
 

Argonaut

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As a Tool and Die Maker I really can appreciate the time and effort put into the CAD design, programming and the machining. As Lagonda stated the more I look at it the more I like it. Congrats David!
What has that remotely have to do with the primary task of a turntable ?
 
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djsina2

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May 30, 2019
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David actually tried and has been studying tonearm design for years. He does not know how to improve on the SME 3012 R, particularly when it comes to the natural bass presentation.

There is a reason that owners of the American Sound turntables replace their expensive and modern tonearms with the SME. The owner of this new turntable will likely end up with a few.
I think the 3012R is a great arm for the money but man there’s a whole world beyond it. Certainly not capable of bringing out the best in a turntable like this.
 

wil

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Jul 22, 2015
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I’ve always been fascinated by the visual aesthetics of turntable design. I feel the turntable presents the greatest potential for great Audio design, however what I see from high-end turntables is usually kind of grotesque in my opinion — the gigantic Air Force One being the most egregious example.

I mostly like the OMA design. And also the AS2000 which Peter owns. Nothing superfluous — a good alignment of industrial form and function.

The Absolute Nothing has a Wagnerian excess that you can’t help but marvel at, but to me ultimately looks over-cooked.

No doubt it does a great job delivering the music!
 

the sound of Tao

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Jul 18, 2014
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David Karmeli has worked for five years on his latest, and likely, final turntable design, The Absolute Nothing. The name is based on the idea that the turntable does not add or remove anything from the information imbedded in the record groove. This is an ultra high mass thread drive design and the culmination of what David has learned about turntable design over the past several decades. To improve on the AS2000 design, he had to go to extremes.

Here are some of the details: The platter weighs 300 lbs. The base weighs about 600 lbs, the motor unit weighs about 100 lbs. The stand, an integral part of the design, weighs another 350 lbs or so. The motor casing is machined from a single block of stainless steel. It is the same Pabst motor as in the AS2000, but now has a three phase motor controller. Rather than the five digit speed display, the new turntable has a strobe on the platter. The massive platter floats on a cushion of air, just like the AS2000. The platter is wider and taller but can be driven easily by the thin thread for minimal contact with the motor pulley/flywheel. The massive base has an irregular pattern of facets on its surface that are designed to control the internal resonances in the base and draw them away from the platter. There are isolation devices integrated into the motor unit, the stand, the arm mounts, and the footers. The motor controller has a worm-drive mechanism that allows one to adjust the thread tension. Motor torque and speed can be fine tuned. Everything is designed with a purpose.

I first saw drawings for this turntable a couple of years ago. David has been working on this for the last five years. CDK84, a fellow WBF member, and I visited the factory and met David a month ago, and then again last week to oversee the move from the factory to the first owner's listening room. After helping to assemble the turntable, David set up the SME 3012R tonearm and Neumann cartridge.

It was clear from the moment the Neumann stylus hit the first groove that this turntable takes the presentation to the next level. There is an uncanny calmness. The presentation is utterly relaxed yet somehow full of energy. The music comes alive in the room and the musicians are present in front of the listener. What this turntable does better than any other turntable I have heard is remove the sense that there is anything mechanical between the listener and the performance captured on the record. My AS2000 does this very well, but The Absolute Nothing takes it further by a margin I did not think was possible.

There is nothing in the presentation that is emphasized, just the ease of the performers in the room. My simple take is that the bass primarily, but also the rest of the information on the record is not corrupted or obscured by the mechanical nature of other turntables. There is more information that comes through to the cartridge and tonearm. When the arm and cartridge are at the level of the 3012R and the Neumann, it seems as if all of the music captured in the vinyl comes through, at least more than I have heard from any other table. There is just more of everything presented naturally. Nothing seems missing because there is just so much more music flowing forth.

I listened until 5:30 in the morning and left for Boston a couple of hours later driving for hours to hear a chamber concert of harp, flute, and strings later that night. Having heard the new turntable in an all Lamm Signature and Karma Midi Grand Exquisite system, followed so closely by a live chamber concert, it is clear to me that David has narrowed the gap between the live and reproduced pretty dramatically.

"Nothing between the listener and the recording" - David's description gets to the essence of this new turntable. It is also what is behind his approach to system set up. David Karmeli has achieved something truly remarkable here, and I could see his satisfaction as he listened. The pride of a designer working hard and then achieving success. I feel fortunate to have witnessed it and heard it as he did for that first time.

View attachment 128936


View attachment 128933


Three videos:



Thanks for the update on David’s new design Peter, it’s fascinating, big, brave and bold, I love it! Looks like David is having a full on Frank Gehry moment… great post-modernist fractals and art meets engineering and going super sculptural… that’s cool.
 

JimmyJet

Member
Nov 15, 2022
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Gig Harbor, WA
I think the 3012R is a great arm for the money but man there’s a whole world beyond it. Certainly not capable of bringing out the best in a turntable like this.
Agreed! I actually did a couple of double-takes as I thought I misread the op's original description, then I saw it mounted in the pictures - I was shocked. It's almost as if the builder is trying to imply that the turntable is so good, it doesn't matter what tonearm you put on it. Also, I calculated 1,350 pounds adding up the weights given in the description - I'm wondering if this has to go on a concrete floor or a reinforced sub-floor.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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As a Tool and Die Maker I really can appreciate the time and effort put into the CAD design, programming and the machining. As Lagonda stated the more I look at it the more I like it. Congrats David!

The facets on the motor case and turntable base were exceedingly difficult to design and cut. The precision and finishing are extraordinary. The main engineer wrote one million lines of code. The various sections are in the CNC machines for a total of 500 hours of machining time. Each facet is different. The idea is to manage and control the residences without sucking out the life and over damping the sound There is a purpose to every cut but it was extremely difficult to figure out and manufacturer.

The motor is very powerful but I could detect no vibration or sound of any kind. The platter of my AS 2000 free spins from 33.33 RPM for 30 minutes before coming to a stop. The free spin time of this platter is likely greater. The high inertia and lack of friction enable the platter to rotate at an extremely accurate and consistent speed.

The integrated stand has separate isolated platforms further minimizing the effect of the motor on the turntable.

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PeterA

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I think the 3012R is a great arm for the money but man there’s a whole world beyond it. Certainly not capable of bringing out the best in a turntable like this.

There will be 12 turntables made. Some might be discussed and shared publicly. The owners will be able to put whatever tonearms they want on their tables. Each turntable can support four arms. It will be interesting over time to see which arms they choose. As you can imagine, there will be no cost constraints for the owners of this turntable. David will personally set up each turntable as he did for the AS 2000.
 

Mike Lavigne

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The integrated stand has separate isolated platforms further minimizing the effect of the motor on the turntable.
interesting. my understanding of David's previous perspective, and the design of the 'Nothing Rack', was that he viewed high mass and solidity as the ultimate structure for the AS-2000. maybe i had an incomplete understanding? or has he evolved in his thinking now that he has isolation?

or am i misinterpreting the idea of isolated platforms for the motor box and plinth? and it's simply split shelves? it makes lots of sense to somehow isolate the motor support and plinth support as best you can. and if the details are not to be revealed i understand. thanks for any enlightenment.
 
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djsina2

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May 30, 2019
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The facets on the motor case and turntable base were exceedingly difficult to design and cut. The precision and finishing are extraordinary. The main engineer wrote one million lines of code. The various sections are in the CNC machines for a total of 500 hours of machining time. Each facet is different. The idea is to manage and control the residences without sucking out the life and over damping the sound There is a purpose to every cut but it was extremely difficult to figure out and manufacturer.

The stainless steel of the platter is a special alloy that does not get magnetized from the machining process. This was discovered to cause problems in the AS 2000 with the powerful magnets of some cartridges. The upper platter of the AS 2000 was changed to this different alloy and the entire platter of the new turntable is of this alloy.

The motor is very powerful but I could detect no vibration or sound of any kind. The platter of my AS 2000 free spins from 33.33 RPM for 30 minutes before coming to a stop. The free spin time of this platter is likely greater. The high inertia and lack of friction enable the platter to rotate at an extremely accurate and consistent speed.

The integrated stand has separate isolated platforms further minimizing the effect of the motor on the turntable.
You don’t write gcode by hand, the CAM software generates those million lines of code for you.

If this special pattern was so difficult to figure out how many prototypes were made? Seems like it would have to be numerous to gather any meaningful data for refining the design. This would be cost prohibitive with that material and tooling time. Looks more like cool decoration.
 

Another Johnson

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Ivor Tiefenbrun believed that the TT was the most important thing to get right. Arm was second and cartridge third. Historically, there have been many systems that were very musical that started with Ivor’s TT and what others viewed as lesser arms and cartridges.

In Ivor’s mind, the platter and drive are the foundation on which whatever you achieve is built. I’m not sharing this to suggest that a Linn is better than the subject table. I am sharing this because my sense from this thread is that DDK may have similar views. He has designed what he considers the last word in platter and drive, and is extracting exquisite information using a third party arm and cartridge. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. A spoonful of The Absolute Nothing sounds quite tasty.
 

adyc

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interesting. my understanding of David's previous perspective, and the design of the 'Nothing Rack', was that he viewed high mass and solidity as the ultimate structure for the AS-2000. maybe i had an incomplete understanding? or has he evolved in his thinking now that he has isolation?

or am i misinterpreting the idea of isolated platforms for the motor box and plinth? and it's simply split shelves? it makes lots of sense to somehow isolate the motor support and plinth support as best you can. and if the details are not to be revealed i understand. thanks for any enlightenment.
The ideal location of the motor case is on a separate rack from the TT. The Nothing racks basically stops the floor coupling of the two racks. The only mechanical connection is the thread driving the platter.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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The ideal location of the motor case is on a separate rack from the TT.
agree that is ideal. my CS Port IME1 string drive high mass air float tt has a similar design (not as massive in it's execution for sure) as the AS-2000. i don't have my motor case and plinth on separate structures, but agree that would be ideal.
The Nothing racks basically stops the floor coupling of the two racks.
not seen how this is implemented. maybe i just did not pay close enough attention when David sent me the plans. or they have evolved.
The only mechanical connection is the thread driving the platter.
yup, that would be best.
 

bonzo75

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So are all those shun mooks still on I thought they were all taken off
 

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