adding the Lampizator SE GG to the Trinity dac

[spiritofmusic]

Sorry if I appear to be a bit dense, but I'm reading and re reading this thread, and I still don't get it.
Are we saying, yes or no, that when it comes to Trinity and GG, that one DAC is superior on DSD, 2x DSD, 4x DSD, and one is superior on PCM (ignoring any conversion of pcm to dsd, ie sticking w/native formats)?
So if I'm really into DSD and have a big library of PCM, both are needed?
I'm finding this impossible to get my head around.
Now, I know a lot of audiophiles here are very well heeled w/plenty of space, so that affording and accommodating both pieces can be done w/out blinking, but this is not the point of my q.
Do you guys, Mike, Audiocrack, and Elberoth, really feel you have to have both to run the whole gamut of digital formats?

I just don't see a similar argument to run multiple amps, spkrs, tts etc.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Sorry if I appear to be a bit dense, but i'm reading and re reading this thread, and i still don't get it.
Are we saying, yes or no, that when it comes to Trinity and GG, that one DAC is superior on DSD, 2x DSD, 4x DSD, and one is superior on PCM (ignoring any conversion of pcm to dsd, ie sticking w/native formats)?
So if I'm really into DSD and have a big library of PCM, both are needed?
I'm finding this impossible to get my head around.
Now, I know a lot of audiophiles here are very well heeled w/plenty of space, so that affording and accommodating both pieces can be done w/out blinking, but this is not the point of my q.
Do you guys, Mike, Audiocrack, and Elberoth, really feel you have to have both to run the whole gamut of digital formats?

I just don't see a similar argument to run multiple amps, spkrs, tts etc.

there is no right or wrong here Spirit, we all just follow our own path.

for me for the last 9 years I've avoided PCM since my digital converted it to 2xdsd and I did not connect with it that well. the dsd and later 2xdsd was so much better my 3000+ CD's mostly just sat there and I only used them as testing fodder for changes. I did not buy any more.

but my PCM was still as good as I had heard for a while. then I started to hear PCM was starting to get better, so I started to investigate what dac might be worth getting to find top level PCM. and it became evident to me that what it took to succeed at PCM was quite different than to succeed at dsd. so I figured it would be PCM only separate from my dsd dac. which eventually led me to the Trinity dac.

when I got the Trinity dac it exceeded my expectations.

I ordered the GG not knowing what dsd dac is best, and honestly I still don't know that. nor do I know what PCM dac is best. but I can say I'm happy with what I am hearing and feel my digital is where I wanted it to be.

and......'playing native' is where it's at. now; the GG's can have 2 separate dacs, so potentially you can 'go native' with both formats with it. but does it get to the PCM heights with it's PCM dac? that is a question.

 

[microstrip]

I'm totally satisfied how the PCM is sounding out of the GG. I've had top PCM DAC's in here as well (i.e.: MSB Diamond, PM2, Phasure, Horus)

Can you tell us what is exactly the configuration and extras of your GG?

 

[bonzo75]

the GG's can have 2 separate dacs, so potentially you can 'go native' with both formats with it. but does it get to the PCM heights with it's PCM dac? that is a question.

That should be easy for you to verify by listening to both at Bruce's through the same dac.

 

[spiritofmusic]

That should be easy for you to verify by listening to both at Bruce's through the same dac.

Surely this has to be the q, and the demo a-b.
It's just not practical on expense/shelf space grounds to run two dacs, esp w/the availability of dsd being so small in comparison to pcm (analagous to R2R titles wrt lp).
My ocd extends to grounding, vibration control, cables etc ie the usual suspects, and I just cannot justify running to two sets of pc's/ic's/ground cbls/Mooks/Symposium, just to have the "luxury" of two DACs.
Surely now is the time to make that Trinity v GG a-b on all these various native digital formats.
I suspect there may well be a winner, the dac that performs best w/all formats.

 

[bonzo75]

Surely this has to be the q, and the demo a-b.
It's just not practical on expense/shelf space grounds to run two dacs, esp w/the availability of dsd being so small in comparison to pcm (analagous to R2R titles wrt lp).
My ocd extends to grounding, vibration control, cables etc ie the usual suspects, and I just cannot justify running to two sets of pc's/ic's/ground cbls/Mooks/Symposium, just to have the "luxury" of two DACs.
Surely now is the time to make that Trinity v GG a-b on all these various native digital formats.
I suspect there may well be a winner, the dac that performs best w/all formats.

Not sure why there needs to be a winner. ddk has 6 TTs. There needs to be no winner. Those who can, should get multiple systems and enjoy all.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not sure why there needs to be a winner. ddk has 6 TTs. There needs to be no winner. Those who can, should get multiple systems and enjoy all.

many pursue finding the best sounding gear, but it's always subjective anyway so it's just an attitude and not a location.

at one point I had 5 master recorder RTR decks, then later I had 4 tt's, now one tt with 2 arms and 2 RTR decks...one 1/4" and one 1/2". was one way correct and another incorrect?

Ki has likely 50+ RTR decks.....!!!!!

there is no one way to scratch the itch. you gotta live in the moment and go down the path.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure, understood. But w/this small number of guys running Trinity and GG, surely an ideal opportunity to draw possible conclusions.
I know plenty of guys use different carts for different lps, esp mono/stereo. My ocd runs to grounding, and soon Mooks, which drive the objective crowd to drink. Like Lloyd LL21 and a dwindling number of diehards, my interest w/digital starts and stops at RBCD, so a lot of this discussion is above my head. I guess we all have our cut off points where we are more reluctant to go beyond - for me I'm happy to pay a little more for Japanese vinyl, others go for multiple Hot Stampers/vintage Deccas etc.
It's just that I'm not seeing guys running two sets of amps, or different pairs of spkrs, depending on material played.

Mike, are you considering active isolation under the GG, re the microphony of all those big valves? And maybe Herzans all 'round, esp to the Dart monos?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, are you considering active isolation under the GG, re the microphony of all those big valves? And maybe Herzans all 'round, esp to the Dart monos?

my tt is on one Herzan, and my Trinity and dart pre are 'stacked' on the other Herzan. everything else (including the GG) has Wave Kinetics A10 U8 decoupling footers underneath. the floor is 6 inches of concrete. and the rack the GG is on has the advantage of being farther from my speaker bass towers, and having the other taller rack in the way between the GG and those towers, so it's much less affected by feedback.

my dart amps are designed with their own internal decoupling suspension system. all the circuit boards and internal parts are 'suspended' on decoupling arms inside the amp cases. to move those amps you have to insert locking pins to keep the insides from beating itself to death. so they don't need any help.

as far as buying another Herzan for the GG; at some future time it might happen. but it will depend on my walk down this path and how important that last little bit becomes. the well is dry for now so not too soon.

on Saturday my visitor remarked how quiet my digital was and I reminded him we were listening to DHT tubes. he was impressed. it's really quiet and the Quad dsd really pushes you to make sure it is as it's noise floor is down there.

 

[wisnon]

Sure, understood. But w/this small number of guys running Trinity and GG, surely an ideal opportunity to draw possible conclusions.
I know plenty of guys use different carts for different lps, esp mono/stereo. My ocd runs to grounding, and soon Mooks, which drive the objective crowd to drink. Like Lloyd LL21 and a dwindling number of diehards, my interest w/digital starts and stops at RBCD, so a lot of this discussion is above my head. I guess we all have our cut off points where we are more reluctant to go beyond - for me I'm happy to pay a little more for Japanese vinyl, others go for multiple Hot Stampers/vintage Deccas etc.
It's just that I'm not seeing guys running two sets of amps, or different pairs of spkrs, depending on material played.

Mike, are you considering active isolation under the GG, re the microphony of all those big valves? And maybe Herzans all 'round, esp to the Dart monos?

??? The Trinity does not play DSD at all. I guess you did not realize its PCM only?

 

[wisnon]

Sorry if I appear to be a bit dense, but I'm reading and re reading this thread, and I still don't get it.
Are we saying, yes or no, that when it comes to Trinity and GG, that one DAC is superior on DSD, 2x DSD, 4x DSD, and one is superior on PCM (ignoring any conversion of pcm to dsd, ie sticking w/native formats)?
So if I'm really into DSD and have a big library of PCM, both are needed?
I'm finding this impossible to get my head around.
Now, I know a lot of audiophiles here are very well heeled w/plenty of space, so that affording and accommodating both pieces can be done w/out blinking, but this is not the point of my q.
Do you guys, Mike, Audiocrack, and Elberoth, really feel you have to have both to run the whole gamut of digital formats?

I just don't see a similar argument to run multiple amps, spkrs, tts etc.

???? again. ACrack has 2 complete world class systems. They are pretty different sounding and both excellent.

 

[wisnon]

Can you tell us what is exactly the configuration and extras of your GG?

Balanced GG with PCM and DSD. No VC. You can suss that out from the picture from RMAF.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Wisnon, it looks like I'm getting this all arse about face !
I guess if you want to run pcm AND dsd, and keep Trinity, a eg GG will be necc.
If Trinity doesn't beat GG l/t on pcm, then GG alone will suffice.
Will any shootouts be forthcoming on comparing GG on pcm versus the Trinity, esp w/recent pcm impvts that Lucasz has introduced.
And yes, AC runs two separate and SOTA-contending systems, so two dacs certainly not out of place.
Digital isn't my forte (despite being recently introduced to the magic of dsd), not much I can add here.
Felt that it might be one extravagance too many to run more than a GG, if GG matches the Trinity on pcm.

Any thoughts from those here how the Merging Technologies Nadac ethernet-based dac fits on the spectrum? It's at a Lampi-like price of c$12k.

Just to say that I wouldn't be surprised if active isolation greatly benefits the GG, if isolation of my Nat SETs using a quad of '48 NOS GE 211's is anything to go by.
Still considering a Spiers And Robertson air rolling table for my tt.

 

[Bruce B]

Any thoughts from those here how the Merging Technologies Nadac ethernet-based dac fits on the spectrum? It's at a Lampi-like price of c$12k.

Comparing it to my Horus, the Balanced GG pulls ahead slightly.

Still think the GG in PCM or DSD mode is the best I've heard.

 

[Audiocrack]

P

Sorry if I appear to be a bit dense, but I'm reading and re reading this thread, and I still don't get it.
Are we saying, yes or no, that when it comes to Trinity and GG, that one DAC is superior on DSD, 2x DSD, 4x DSD, and one is superior on PCM (ignoring any conversion of pcm to dsd, ie sticking w/native formats)?
So if I'm really into DSD and have a big library of PCM, both are needed?
I'm finding this impossible to get my head around.
Now, I know a lot of audiophiles here are very well heeled w/plenty of space, so that affording and accommodating both pieces can be done w/out blinking, but this is not the point of my q.
Do you guys, Mike, Audiocrack, and Elberoth, really feel you have to have both to run the whole gamut of digital formats?

I just don't see a similar argument to run multiple amps, spkrs, tts etc.

I believe I have already answered your question in one of my previous posts. To my ears the Trinity combo is by far the best pcm replay I have heard so far. Imo also clearly better than the pcm reply of my GG. But my GG was one of the very first built, if not the very first, so I do not know yet how good the current pcm application of the GG is. Lukasz visited me yesterday and picked up my GG and server to install the latest updates in both and to get my dsd 256 running.

But of course that is my opinion based on my preferences, ears, interaction with systems and acoustics, etc. I suppose what I am saying here that there is no such thing as this is the best dac, turntable, etc. in the world because in the end it is a subjective call.

And yes, I am using very different speakers, different turntables, different digital devices and different power amps, albeit being both made by Kondo - Gakuoh pp in the Genesis set up and Gakuoh se in the Tidal LA set up - because they have all their special strengths (and I suppose weakenesses). Lastly, my choice for another dac was purely motivated by my wish to be able to play dsd natively while the Trinity is solely pcm.

 

[KeithR]

this may be a bit OT, but if tubed dacs are your thing why not just get a tubed preamp and allow it for all sources?

i have noticed most Lampi users have SS systems. yes, I understand that the Lampi does DSD different - so this is more of a PCM question

 

[Audiophile Bill]

this may be a bit OT, but if tubed dacs are your thing why not just get a tubed preamp and allow it for all sources?

i have noticed most Lampi users have SS systems. yes, I understand that the Lampi does DSD different - so this is more of a PCM question

Hi Keith,

Are you sure most Lampi users have pure solid state systems? I find it unlikely based on the owners I know.

 

[bonzo75]

Many have valves. Also after having demoed many valve pre amps, I.find the influence of lampi more and unlike Jadis or AR which are nice buy much slower and fuzzier in comparison. The speed of DHT s can be more than SS, and with certain valves it has a lot of details and more influence on sound.

 

[KeithR]

there are several DHT preamps as well, Bonzo. in fact, Srajan Ebaen has extolled the virtues of DHT preamps extensively with First Watt amps.

Bill- most who post on these threads seem to have SS, go figure. I certainly don't know about the european market. clearly, there are SET amp guys who own both Lampi amps and dac (Joeind)

 

[wisnon]

Wisnon, it looks like I'm getting this all arse about face !
I guess if you want to run pcm AND dsd, and keep Trinity, a eg GG will be necc.
If Trinity doesn't beat GG l/t on pcm, then GG alone will suffice.
Will any shootouts be forthcoming on comparing GG on pcm versus the Trinity, esp w/recent pcm impvts that Lucasz has introduced.
And yes, AC runs two separate and SOTA-contending systems, so two dacs certainly not out of place.
Digital isn't my forte (despite being recently introduced to the magic of dsd), not much I can add here.
Felt that it might be one extravagance too many to run more than a GG, if GG matches the Trinity on pcm.

Any thoughts from those here how the Merging Technologies Nadac ethernet-based dac fits on the spectrum? It's at a Lampi-like price of c$12k.

Just to say that I wouldn't be surprised if active isolation greatly benefits the GG, if isolation of my Nat SETs using a quad of '48 NOS GE 211's is anything to go by.
Still considering a Spiers And Robertson air rolling table for my tt.

Trinty is 2.5X times the price of the GG so, you are not talking about the same investment level.
If people can afford both or other things to get what they think is best, more peer to them. That should not be the deciding factor for YOU.

If you will never spend $50K on a Dac, why even mull a Trinity purchasee, given that even used the Trinity will likely cost more than a full retail GG.

ACrack and Mike LOVE their Trinity Dac, so there must be something to it.

It sounded splendid to me when I heard it for a limited time, but I have never done a head to head. ACrack has and still prefers Trinity PCM.