Active cross over resolutions

[Alrainbow]

I have an existing active cross over
With a max resolution of 48k.
I am looking into a newer model.
And the new one is up to 96k.
What does this actually mean ?
I know the dacs are newer and the
Bits are now 24 up from 20
But the resolution increase will I here any change
Do I really need it. Both units are from the pro audio market
And fully balanced in and out as my entire system
Is this now right into the amps
Advice please
Al

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I have an existing active cross over
With a max resolution of 48k.
I am looking into a newer model.
And the new one is up to 96k.
What does this actually mean ?
I know the dacs are newer and the
Bits are now 24 up from 20
But the resolution increase will I here any change
Do I really need it. Both units are from the pro audio market
And fully balanced in and out as my entire system
Is this now right into the amps
Advice please
Al

You lost me. Is this also a DAC.?

Tim

 

[Alrainbow]

LOL. I do that a lot.
Ok the DAC is first then the active cross over
It has analog inputs but divides the freq
Into 4 groups subs woofers mids tweeters
Then from the cross over it goes to the amps
Then speakers.
Now inside the cross over there is a AD where in the digital domain
All signal processing is done and then back to analog
This is where the DA converter is
Al

 

[JackD201]

Based on my experience, I'm guessing you'll hear differences Al.

 

[GaryProtein]

Based on my experience, I'm guessing you'll hear differences Al.

But is the difference because of the sampling rate or something else? [I'm not claiming to know what the something else might be.]

 

[CGabriel]

LOL. I do that a lot.
Ok the DAC is first then the active cross over
It has analog inputs but divides the freq
Into 4 groups subs woofers mids tweeters
Then from the cross over it goes to the amps
Then speakers.
Now inside the cross over there is a AD where in the digital domain
All signal processing is done and then back to analog
This is where the DA converter is
Al

Just out of curiosity, what is the device you are using? The new one I mean.

 

[Alrainbow]

Using now yamaha D2040. New DBX driver rack 4800. I can get one for 2k.
And I am with you Gary as I'm sure there is more to reproduce but what. I am thinking the transient response should be better as well as the overall definition . If I am correct I should hear a big change as soon as it's warmed up and pre programmed . But I would really like someone's experience to speak up please. And thanks Gary for your input.

Al

 

[Julf]

But the resolution increase will I here any change

I am a big fan of active, digital cross overs, and have been using various units for a long time. For pro applications I still recommend the good old Behringer DCX2496, but for hi-fi I currently use the Hypex DLCP. Both are 24/96 units, but despite that I have to say you are unlikely to hear much of a difference between 48 kHz and 96 kHz. The implementation of the filter algorithms and internal precision in the DSP is much more important than sample rate.

Only real way to tell is for you to try it yourself, in a controlled double-blind listening test.

 

[GaryProtein]

Using now yamaha D2040. New DBX driver rack 4800. I can get one for 2k. . . .

Al

Is that for a BNIB unit? The cheapest I saw it for was $3999 in NYC.

 

[Julf]

Is that for a BNIB unit? The cheapest I saw it for was $3999 in NYC.

And a Behringer DCX2496 is $350?

 

[Alrainbow]

Demo unit . Not new. Wow you are following this closely. This is a rabbit hole I am into . What bothers me is the lack of information . I have put this post up in several forums. And Gary there is you me and one other guy. He has the berringer .
The unit you have is highly regarded and has a review . I figured for 2k it's worth the try . As for your setup that I prefere I need to get a price on for a three way or for way.

Al

 

[JonFo]

Using now yamaha D2040. New DBX driver rack 4800. I can get one for 2k.

Al, if you can land a DBX4800 for $2K jump on it, and if you don't want it, let me know, I need a second one.

I've been using various flavors of DriverRacks for a decade or more (first some 260's then the 4800), and I even had a DCX2496 in the setup for a while (rears), and I have to say that nothing beats a DriveRack for quality. The Behringer is not bad at all, but the DBX's are much higher quality and just easier to work with, as well as much more robust (run for months and months with zero issues).

One thing I love is the 'Audio Architect' software to set it up, very easy to use and quite powerful. They even have an iPad app you can configure to do such things as engage modes like the SubHarmonic synth (a Sim of the classic DBX120) and other cool things.

The quality of the A/D and D/A is extremely good. I have a revealing system and this unit is pretty much transparent. With 24bit resolution, you get a broader dynamic range than the rest of your gear can likely deliver. And the 96Khz sampling rate means it's high-frequency resolution is nice and clean.
One thing the 4800 has much better than the Behringer (or even the old 260) is gain management. It's much easier to gain match the system (especially when using non-pro sources). When doing active, it's critical to get the overall gain-structure of the setup right. Just google those terms for more detail.

To see how I use this in my rig (it handles all three fronts + sub), check out this page on my site.

 

[JonFo]

BTW- here's how I use the iPad app to remotely control the subwoofer level and subharmonic synth. I can also mute the sub. So for those guests that don't believe a sub is required for classical, it makes for great demos

 

[Nyal Mellor]

Your first option is to stick with the straightforward pro digital crossover (analog in, analog out) and simply upgrade units. I would recommend the Xilica XP-4080 or Xilica XD-4080. The XD is used by Legacy Audio in their Whisper XD speakers.

As a second option you could go to a digital processor that not only offers crossover functionality but also has additional capabilities that would improve sound quality. For example with the DEQX units you will get the benefit of linear phase speaker correction and automated room correction. The DEQX units also offer a digital input, volume control and input switching capabilities that essentially let you use them as preamps for your system. Assuming you mostly use a digital source this means you remove the additional analog-digital conversion at the input of the digital crossover by running digital into the DEQX. In the most straightforward system you then have digital source/DEQX/power amps/speakers as the signal chain.

 

[Alrainbow]

Btw. I feel real good now. As I am a LISC electrical contractor and LISC Electrical PE as well. The power you have installed is Stella . I also now feal more confident in what I am doing as well. For me to get good tone quality I have a couple of tricks. As I grew up very poor and never had anything till I bought it. It's not sad as I always took care of my mom . Anyway so as child I was not shown the arts as I have done for all my children. Now for me to know how it sounds there is two problems . The first is I do not know how it should sound or any other instrument as well. Of course I have gone to many concerts but the pa, s almost always stunk. So I did get to go to small studios and listened as well as I could.
My next step go to as many hi end shops in NYC as I could . Bring my own music so I could learn how it sounds on some really good stuff. Last buy the most expensive dac I could afford. So my dac is the MSB stack platinum 4 plus with diamond PSU and the UMTplus with. Dual transport PSU. Now once I had this and several headphone setups to,use as a reference I was off to better understanding. My headphones were several. First off the stax 009 and a WOO audio WES all options .
Next the HD800 and last the hifiman He6 with a WOO audio WA5 all in as well. I know they are headphones but very accurate ones. They have allowed me to learn how it should sound during reproduction.

Al

 

[Alrainbow]

I want to be analog input , as my dac is an MSB platinum and want this to do processing. And I know the dcs has there own dacs as well it it's something I do not want but seems to be the only choice I have if I go with systems we are talking about.

Al

 

[DonH50]

If you use a digital active crossover you will be using its DACs, and if you use analog input you will also be using its ADCs. Whether that matters only you can say.

 

[zydeco]

I want to be analog input , as my dac is an MSB platinum and want this to do processing. And I know the dcs has there own dacs as well it it's something I do not want but seems to be the only choice I have if I go with systems we are talking about.

Al

I've not heard the MSB Platinum but by all accounts it's a great D/A Converter. It seems, then, a shame to add the additional A/D and D/A stages implicit in a digital active x/o placed after the DAC / Volume Control. If you're intent on retaining the MSB unit in the chain, then one option might be an analogue cross-over using the x/o settings from your current unit. The downside is that speaker / room EQ would have to be done at the source - not so much of an issue if you've got a single, computer-based, source but a pain if you've got multiple sources (and more or less impossible if you've got analogue sources). Hope that helps.

Cheers
Zydeco

 

[Nyal Mellor]

If you're intent on retaining the MSB unit in the chain, then one option might be an analogue cross-over using the x/o settings from your current unit.

Another option is to use a digital crossover as digital in, digital out, then put the MSB (or multiple MSBs or other DACs afterwards). It's possible to do this using both the Xilica XD and the DEQX HDP-4 and PreMATE. It could get kind of expensive with a four way system (four MSB Platinum DACs anyone?)

 

[Alrainbow]

Yes it would . But I must consider first off I have one now. And old one . It sounds really good , and I am looking for room correction. At present if I change dacs as I a few I hear the change immediately . Even if I change settings as up sample or filters. My point is every thing is a trade off in this hobby. There is no real perfection and for me I see a small loss for big gains. Remember I had the speakers with there internal cross overs so no digital processing. And it to had issues
By me doing what I have done it has improved my system . And I feel this addition or any other type of processing will to.
At the very least if I do not like the room correction software I still have a much newer form of active cross over system.
So I am looking forward to this as of now. If I wanted it to be perfect in anyway possible it would cost me several hundred thousand and maybe I would not like it anyway. My only issues are the volume control and how transparent the op amps
Are in the unit.

Al