He must have said the word "natural" at least 5 times. I also liked his emphasis on live unamplified music as reference.
A Head's Up To Next Installment Of Masters And Makers
- Thread starter Steve Williams
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He must have said the word "natural" at least 5 times. I also liked his emphasis on live unamplified music as reference.
Interesting also, Ron about Dave and Daryl's decision to move Wilson Subs from 18 - 15 - 12. It has made me think on the dual-opposing 24" Funk...perhaps considering instead stacked dual-opposing 12"? Wilson subs are also focused on sub35 or sub30hz territory...so a lot of air displacement, but his view is cone speed also helps create a more realistic sense of space.
So 4 per cabinet...and 2 cabinets (1 for each channel). Same surface area, probably less air movement given the excursion of a 12 vs a 24...of course, by contrast, I know Nathan Funk is a fan of larger cones because they move the same air as a smaller cone but 'can' exhibit lower distortion because the larger cone is not working as hard whereas the smaller cone has more displacement/movement/excursion to move comparable amounts of air.
Still...something perhaps I will revisit with Nathan when next we speak. Thought provoking interview!
So 4 per cabinet...and 2 cabinets (1 for each channel). Same surface area, probably less air movement given the excursion of a 12 vs a 24...of course, by contrast, I know Nathan Funk is a fan of larger cones because they move the same air as a smaller cone but 'can' exhibit lower distortion because the larger cone is not working as hard whereas the smaller cone has more displacement/movement/excursion to move comparable amounts of air.
Still...something perhaps I will revisit with Nathan when next we speak. Thought provoking interview!
These are interesting observations Lloyd. One of the things I wonder about are the paper cones needing vented enclosures so internal pressure is not as great. I can imagine under high pressure big paper cones would tend to deflect more, venting the enclosure reduces internal pressure. It’s just a guess because I don’t know anything about cone design, but I think Magico has the challenge of designing a cone which is super stiff and light because of the extreme pressure in the sealed cabinet. This may be one reason Wilson chooses to go in what seems like a very different direction. I imagine each company feels their approach sounds most natural.
I would welcome comments from someone who knows more about this than I certainly do.
It is an interesting puzzle, Lloyd, with different information from different experts. Do smaller subwoofer drivers exhibit lower distortion? Or do larger subwoofer drivers exhibit lower distortion?
Is the "speed" of smaller drivers a proxy for lower distortion?
Or do smaller drivers exhibit greater distortion, but the fact that they are "faster" makes them sound better anyway?
All very interesting indeed. For sub-35hz and even more so for sub30hz, I will likely focus on low distortion but also being able to play at low volume.
My understanding is that pure carbon fiber cones of, say, 24" can weigh the same as a traditionally made 18" cone...so that its mass and the power requirements to move it are similar...but because it is moving far more air than the 18", it also has to work less hard and therefore in theory is capable of producing the same air displacement with less distortion.
Amongst the infinite other factors no doubt involved...i also understand that the 'chargepower/signal' required to get a larger cone moving may also be higher...which means that if you play at low volumes, you may not find the signal gets the sub up and running automatically. Not exactly sure about this one, but have read that somewhere.
I also would welcome more feedback on this.
Learning more about Wilson Audio in preparation for this interview makes me want to revisit purchasing maybe just one Thor's Hammer and one ActivXO. Add a Parasound JC1 -- and it's a full subwoofer system.
With the crossover set to 30 Hz and a 12dB or 18dB slope, the frequencies in play (10Hz to 25Hz) should be low enough such that they truly will be omndirectional, and so may be only one subwoofer would be needed. (Plus I don't really have any room in the front corners of my listening room, but I do have space in the middle.)
With the crossover set to 30 Hz and a 12dB or 18dB slope, the frequencies in play (10Hz to 25Hz) should be low enough such that they truly will be omndirectional, and so may be only one subwoofer would be needed. (Plus I don't really have any room in the front corners of my listening room, but I do have space in the middle.)
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Lloyd, there's a Wilson Audio XS subwoofer (18" x 2) for sale!
I owned one about 25 years ago My entire house shook when playing music. Plus they were integrated into my Home Theater and certain movies made me dizzy for hours. Plus the crate in which it comes from Wilson is so big that you can sublet space in it and I needed piano movers to get it upstairs to my room.
Hah! I remember reading about that from Steve (above) and from Jeff Fritz who once had it in his for review...he wrote something like 'my wife cried'. I think it makes a pair of XLFs look like a Sasha as I recall.
I thought a dual-opposing 24" was big...2.3 x 2.3 x 3 and 400lbs.
Where does your notion that paper drivers don't work well in sealed boxes come from?
Conversations with a dealer when I was shopping for speakers plus idyl speculation. He described the need for stiff cone material because of the pressure in the sealed cabinet. I would’ve enjoyed some questions on this topic in your interview.
sealed boxes rarely sound good, so irrespective of paper, diamond, aluminium, etc, that is a safe speculation.
maybe better to say inefficient sealed boxes with complex crossovers?
Interesting. The Stenheim Ultime 2 that you liked are ported, the Stenheim Ultime 3 are sealed.
Are there any sealed box speakers that you like?
there are always exceptions. Still will take Altec 817/dual FLH like Leif's over Stenheim ultime 2 given enough space, or Mayer Pnoe, or Chris Rhapsody's Diesis Kondo if you want to spend.
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Was that dealer trying to sell you a sealed box speaker with ceramic drivers or metal drivers or other non-paper driver material?
No. I don’t understand what you’re driving at. We texted about this topic the other day and I was surprised you never brought it up in your interview with Wilson. They are known for having vented base cabinets and smaller speakers and their paper drivers. It is a distinctly different approach from a company like Magico.
I’m asking questions and speculating based on conversations and observations. I would like to see more discussion on the topic. Do you have something to add?
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