2.4KW amp, anyone?

[fas42]

It most certainly is the result of tweaking electronics. Because if I don't do that then I don't get good sound, and I certainly don't get some nice illusions ...

Frank

 

[Steve Williams]

If I can't get Wilson speakers to disappear I won't be happy

don't you have to get them to appear first before you make them disappear. Which model Wilson's were you planning on getting

I know Nicholas Bedsworth has a pair of Imola Red Sasha's for sale. Perhaps you can contact him

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Hey! I said we'll let it go ...

Pictures??? Design first, some construction second, pictures a distant third! I need to toss ideas around, juggle conflicting requirements, and get some feedback from you lot. So, on my last point in the previous post, any comments?

Frank

Pictures of the design, then; pictures of the construction. Comments on D or A/B or 600 watts continuous power? I still think you should do RMS, to the specs posted here the other day which were very thorough, and I'd be perfectly happy if you came up with something as good as the HK 990, which is rated at only 150 watts RMS, but doesn't even flinch in the face of a 4-ohm load.

Tim

 

[fas42]

Frank, only one thought from me, get yourself an equalizer or a pre-amp with a tone control and use it, since your ear/brain interface is locked into the idea that electronics is the controller, then add a controller...a tone control. I will remind you of a post in another thread where you rightly talked about noise being down or any signal including music being down more than say 80db you will not hear it......yet you claim you hear these huge imperfections in electronics......

The huge difference, its the speakers and the room....think huge level and frequency response distortion levels Frank. Why do you persist that it is electronics,?.

Perhaps with your HTIB there is something nasty about the electronics and speakers and of course it is not up to high fi standards at any significant volume level.

Good Luck in the future and have fun.

Tom

Thanks for your thoughts, Tom ...

Unfortunately, I am very sensitive to various inadequacies in gear, and tone controls, etc, would so cloud the sound that it would be intolerable. My friend is extremely impressed with my ears, to start off with he was very tolerant of the harshness generated when playing "bad" recordings with non-optimised gear, that which would cause me to turf the whole lot of the system out the window; he now understands what to look for in getting clean, unblemished sound, his ears have tuned into the classical signature of the type of distortion that I go on about here ...

When music is down by 80dB, yes, it's virtually impossible to discern, but the distortions I talk of are so irritating to the ear that even when they are way, way down in level your ear/brain picks up that they are there, and is disturbed by it. A good example of this: Mike's system is very well regarded, but Gary said he could get a headache until recently when listening to Mike's system: this is one of the signatures of the low level imperfections that I talk of.

A good analogy: add the sound of nails being dragged across metal, at extremely low levels to beautiful sound. I bet most people will pick it in an ABX, even .

Frank

 

[fas42]

don't you have to get them to appear first before you make them disappear. Which model Wilson's were you planning on getting

I know Nicholas Bedsworth has a pair of Imola Red Sasha's for sale. Perhaps you can contact him

Nice thought, but finances certainly won't stretch to that. I was thinking more in a demo situation, at a dealer say.

Frank

 

[fas42]

I'd be perfectly happy if you came up with something as good as the HK 990, which is rated at only 150 watts RMS, but doesn't even flinch in the face of a 4-ohm load.

Tim

Which is why I mention the Status Quo album so often. This makes the job of assessing power capabilities of systems so easy: it is quite startling to hear even well regarded monster amps begin to collapse at quite moderate levels using this CD as a measuring tool ...

Frank

 

[fas42]

The 2400W unit is the "show off" piece, to demonstrate what's possible, and the design has to be sufficiently robust to do that job. Realistically, provided the amp is working correctly, much less than that power is required for most people, so I am thinking here a series of 3 amps: 125W, 600W and 2400W, in other words a meaningful difference in max SPL of 6dB between the units. The design philosophy and circuit would be common between them, tghey would "sound" indentical to each other, but big differences in amount of hardware, and hence cost, between them ...

Frank

 

[mep]

Nice thought, but finances certainly won't stretch to that. I was thinking more in a demo situation, at a dealer say.

Frank

I can see the headline now, "Hi-Fi shop burns to the ground after customer brought in a home-made amplifer and switched it on."

 

[fas42]

I can see the headline now, "Hi-Fi shop burns to the ground after customer brought in a home-made amplifer and switched it on."

Then again, I might astonish a few people here, and actually demonstrate that I do know a thing or two about electronics. Unlike some American universities, here in Australia you do need to have some real knowlege and ability to get a degree ...

Frank

 

[mep]

I thought that you have never worked as an electrical engineer according to your profile: " Got Electrical Engineering degree, but timing was terrible: no work when I got out and about.
Ended up as Analyst/Programmer, for about 30+ years.
Retired, with a frazzled brain, looking for interesting things to do ..."

And what is that slam against American Universities and the electrical engineers they turn out?? I have never heard that Australia turns out the best electrical engineers.

 

[fas42]

I was referring to the graduate factories over there that are happy to send out bits of papers to you in return for sufficient money, as course the normal institutions in the USA will do an excellent job -- don't be so sensitive, Mark!

It's not about grinding away at a desk somewhere, it's all about aptitude and inclination: by nature I'm a perfectionist, which is highly frustratinging to people around me at times -- once I get the smell of a problem or a possible solution I tend to grind away at it. In fact, that's one reason I mangled my brain: the normal level of sloppiness in computer programming for me is intolerable, I was never happy until a program was "perfect". As Amir will be happy to tell you, there ain't no such animal as a "correct" application, but I persisted in testing for errors way beyond what other people would contenance ...

Frank

 

[mep]

Unlike some American universities, here in Australia you do need to have some real knowlege and ability to get a degree ...

Frank

Above are your words, and now you are backpedalling. You clearly stated that unlike some American universities, you actually have to have some knowledge to get an EE degree in Australia which implies that in the U.S., you don’t.

Please name me one Australian audio company that has been in business for over 50 years and their original products are still sought after the world over. Original Marantz products are still highly sought after around the world. In fact, name any audio company from Australia that has any long term track record in the world market. The U.S. is chock-a-block full of them. There may have been a few flashes in the pan down under, but I certainly don’t think that Australia is a hot bed of audio engineering. Outside of the U.S., I can think of Germany, England, Japan, and France as countries that have turned out really good audio products. Australia and their great EE degrees, not so much.

 

[naturephoto1]

Not from Australia, but Plinius out of New Zealand has been making audio equipment since 1980.

Rich

 

[fas42]

Mark, calm down ...

You started the ball rolling by having a dig at me, and I responded in kind. You've got a mighty thin skin, I know, but now it's time to let it go and move on, OK. This is a discussion about building an amp ...

Frank

 

[mep]

Great response Frank. You throw in a huge dig and now you don’t want to talk about it. As for thin skin, not true at all. I have skin like an alligator. You have to in order to survive on this forum and life in general unless you want to drive yourself crazy. So anyway, you dropped the bomb my friend. I just responded to it.

 

[fas42]

Not from Australia, but Plinius out of New Zealand has been making audio equipment since 1980.

Rich

Plinius? Perreaux from NZ was the big name in the early 80's, one of the first to go big with the Hitachi MOSFET output stage concept: later on they went off the boil a bit, lost their way as many companies do ...

We've had a number of sharp operators here in Australia but often they're small scale, and fairly unknown overseas. An Australian was the design man for Mark Levinson in the 80's; then we had ME, that built monster amps that could knock Krell units off the table in a fair fight, and so on

Frank

 

[DonH50]

Rats, a 30-year career shot to heck because I got my degrees in the wrong country...

As for denigrating others: "You don't have to put out another's candle to make your own shine brighter." - William Adam (famous trumpet player/teacher)

 

[fas42]

Rats, a 30-year career shot to heck because I got my degrees in the wrong country...

As for denigrating others: "You don't have to put out another's candle to make your own shine brighter." - William Adam (famous trumpet player/teacher)

Made a mistake not adding a smilie to that post, which I know Mark has an aversion to ... so I'll try and compensate for that now:

There, that should be enough for the next couple of pages of posts ...

Frank

 

[mep]

Let’s get back on topic Frank. Which amp are you designing first? When will you have the schematic finished? When will you buy the parts and start assembly? When can we expect to see the first finished product?

 

[DonH50]

No worries, Frank, for all you know I am a mail-order engineer without a real eddication in any country. Ah, such is the power of the net...