2.4KW amp, anyone?

[fas42]

As mentioned in another thread, current setup has gone down for the moment! Wondering what to do as a next step, and one option was to pursue an idea that's come and gone a number of times. So basically I am putting out the concept here to see if there would real interest in such a project, whether if would be worth my time putting effort into it ...

In simple terms, a SS version of the McIntosh MC2KW, capable of 2.4KW or thereabouts into 8 ohms. No, this is not silly, this is about giving people who have inefficient speakers plenty of headroom. And it is not trying to mimic a Krell or such, it's all about being able to generate a voltage swing on the voice coils to correctly reproduce a musical crescendo. So it won't be about outputting silly number of amps, around 50 to 60 would be about it, and it definitely won't be doubling power output as the speaker impedance halves. Just like the McIntosh, in other words.

Of course, this means it will be capable of generating pretty vicious voltage spikes at the speaker terminals, enough to damage someone if precautions aren't taken. Also, the aim is not to try to do something macho like making it capable of delivering these high levels of power continuously. No, the idea is for it to be able to gracefully deliver the power to meet the needs of real music playback, the sort of thing that might even keep Basspig happy!

It has to be able to do the job drawing power of a normal house spur, so it's all about engineering the power supply to do the job properly, to be able to handle the instantaneous needs of a large dynamic range. Plus, to keep the numbers people happy, it will have excellent distortion figures even at maximum voltage output. It won't be a clone of some butch pro amp, will be a linear design, and the intent is that it will be as "musical" as a decent high end design.

So, any interest in or comments on such an endeavour?

Frank

 

[JackD201]

So whose 2.4KW are you gonna attempt to turn into the 6 Million Dollar Man Frank? Now let's say you do get a pair to play with and you accomplish your goals, are you finally going to say what and how you did it or will you use the trade secret card? Just curious.

 

[fas42]

Jack, I'll be using relatively standard techniques on the amplification side, the thing that makes it difficult to do conventionally is having electronic parts that will handle the voltages. But there are various techniques that can be used to get around these issues, which are well understood in the electrical game. In essence, the mechanism used to create gain is the same technique as used in the HT I've got, but scaled up appropriately to handle the voltages and currents ...

Yes, the obvious tactic would be using the techniques developed in the power supply, and filtering of the mains in, plus other bits and pieces of methodology. Some of the stuff is definitely IP, so I would have to think hard about how to go about it. The thing is, my previous system setup was totally different: a big mutha Yamaha CD player driving my own design of the gainclone thing, which were set up to drive old Technics speakers, the ones with the treble head unit set back, with amp positioned similar to how Meridian does their active speakers. This didn't use anything IP, basically good power supply and topology. This worked pretty well, sounded as good as most high end stuff out there, and had plenty of dynamics. I could use that concept, scaled up, to achieve my goals without adding IP. The only downside, it most likely wouldn't be as robust in maintaining performance as I've got the HT beast ...

Frank

 

[JackD201]

How's about a bit of fun then. How about a before and after with your "neighbor" Terry as our ears? That is if you don't end up killing each other

 

[fas42]

You devil, you!! The tropical heat certainly does the damage, eh??

Terry/John is no particular fan of amps, so I don't know whether he would tune into the difference ...

Frank

 

[JackD201]

Hahahahahahahaha! Uh oh here we go again!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Whatmore]

You devil, you!! The tropical heat certainly does the damage, eh??

Terry/John is no particular fan of amps, so I don't know whether he would tune into the difference ...

Frank

Were you guys best of friends on SNA too ?

 

[fas42]

SNA ??

Frank

 

[Whatmore]

SNA ??

Frank

Stereo.net.au

 

[RBFC]

Jack, I'll be using relatively standard techniques on the amplification side, the thing that makes it difficult to do conventionally is having electronic parts that will handle the voltages. But there are various techniques that can be used to get around these issues, which are well understood in the electrical game. In essence, the mechanism used to create gain is the same technique as used in the HT I've got, but scaled up appropriately to handle the voltages and currents ...

Yes, the obvious tactic would be using the techniques developed in the power supply, and filtering of the mains in, plus other bits and pieces of methodology. Some of the stuff is definitely IP, so I would have to think hard about how to go about it. The thing is, my previous system setup was totally different: a big mutha Yamaha CD player driving my own design of the gainclone thing, which were set up to drive old Technics speakers, the ones with the treble head unit set back, with amp positioned similar to how Meridian does their active speakers. This didn't use anything IP, basically good power supply and topology. This worked pretty well, sounded as good as most high end stuff out there, and had plenty of dynamics. I could use that concept, scaled up, to achieve my goals without adding IP. The only downside, it most likely wouldn't be as robust in maintaining performance as I've got the HT beast ...

Frank

Frank, you should be a politician. You said all this and told us almost zero. Amazing.

Lee

 

[mep]

Frank, you should be a politician. You said all this and told us almost zero. Amazing.

Lee

I agree. I'm still scratching my head. Is the HTIAB dead now and of instead of repairing that 30 watt per channel box that you have been regaling us with tall tales about the loudness levels it achieves amongst other feats of magic, you are now going to build a 2.4kw amp?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I agree. I'm still scratching my head. Is the HTIAB dead now and of instead of repairing that 30 watt per channel box that you have been regaling us with tall tales about the loudness levels it achieves amongst other feats of magic, you are now going to build a 2.4kw amp?

a 2.4KW amp he will use to drive his HTIB speakers. Frank shouldn't be a politician. Frank should open TUC, Australia, LLC and buy a buggy to sell oil off the back of.

Tim

 

[amirm]

Guys, let's not keep staying personal. If there is no interest in Frank's topic, let's let it be me.

Me, I found value in going up to 500 watts with a high efficiency design. Without it, likely would need another 50% to 100% to match the same. I was so surprised to see an improvement over beefy amps of somewhat lower power. So count me converted on part of this argument .

 

[Robh3606]

The only real issue I see is finding a set of inefficient speakers that can take that kind of power without catching on fire. Make a great Pro subwoofer amp. There is a point where more power is simply not going to work. If you want more SPL just start with a system with higher sensitivity.

Rob

 

[RBFC]

I'll agree on the improvements with more power on the same system. The headroom IMO prevents the instability caused by near-limit demands. Even smaller speakers that are rated at 50 watts or so will not be blown up by a 500 watt amplifier. Rather, they'll sound better since it's clean power without the high-frequency hash that accompanies a clipping amp's signal.

Lee

 

[amirm]

Lee is right on the money. I hope no one is talking about 0dbfs (full scale) music playing at 2.4 KW!!!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You'll get no arguments from me against the virtues of excess headroom. Lack of headroom is, IMO, the biggest amplifier problem out there.

Tim

 

[Whatmore]

I am feeding my 97dB speakers with 500 watts. So yes, I'm firmly in the headroom is good camp.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I am feeding my 97dB speakers with 500 watts. So yes, I'm firmly in the headroom is good camp.

I don't think people would have an issue with bigger amps producing a greater sense of ease. That's been readily apparent driving my Martin-Logans with the the 275 wpc cj tube amps. What has been an issue is that the larger power amps just don't sound as good as the lower powered amps. That came out years ago in comparing say the smaller Class A Bedini amps vs the large, same circuit design 100 wpc Bedini amps. Many thought the little ARC Classic 60 sounded much better than its bigger brothers and so on (of course on the right speakers). I think the same thing held true for the little 60 watt Jadis amps sounding better than the 200 or 500 watters. But...the bigger amps just have a greater sense of dynamic ease.

Things have been slowly changing but there's still some magic--be it compromises that have to be made in winding output transformers and bandwidth, etc.

 

[Whatmore]

I don't think people would have an issue with bigger amps producing a greater sense of ease. That's been readily apparent driving my Martin-Logans with the the 275 wpc cj tube amps. What has been an issue is that the larger power amps just don't sound as good as the lower powered amps. That came out years ago in comparing say the smaller Class A Bedini amps vs the large, same circuit design 100 wpc Bedini amps. Many thought the little ARC Classic 60 sounded much better than its bigger brothers and so on (of course on the right speakers). I think the same thing held true for the little 60 watt Jadis amps sounding better than the 200 or 500 watters. But...the bigger amps just have a greater sense of dynamic ease.

Things have been slowly changing but there's still some magic--be it compromises that have to be made in winding output transformers and bandwidth, etc.

I think that's a whole other debate and probably not entirely on topic.