AF0 from Munchen
- Thread starter gian60
- Start date
I've held that motor in my hand running on a power supply. It is crazy, crazy smooth but more importantly balanced due to the intricate housing. No perceptible oscillations. It's nuts. This just makes me friggin drool.
Does AF0 mean Air Force One or Air Force Zero? It's a bit confusing. The thread title would have me believe that this is the new AF Zero turntable, but it seems like the AF1 Premium table with the motor from the future AF Zero turntable, correct? Does anyone know when the Zero table will be released and how it will differ?
I find it interesting that two contemporary tables which many describe as SOTA, the AF Zero and the American Sound AS2000 are both high mass belt drive designs, one suspended, one not. I would be very interested to read (or hear) a direct comparison between one of these and say the new Monaco or Technics DDs. How are they likely to sound different? Tang will soon be able to compare the AS2000 to the AF1.
I find it interesting that two contemporary tables which many describe as SOTA, the AF Zero and the American Sound AS2000 are both high mass belt drive designs, one suspended, one not. I would be very interested to read (or hear) a direct comparison between one of these and say the new Monaco or Technics DDs. How are they likely to sound different? Tang will soon be able to compare the AS2000 to the AF1.
The AF-0 will be present at the Tokyo Show in November, and as far as I know from my conversations with Nishikawa San it's not going to be suspended!
AF-0, AS-2000, the Apolyt, etc. will have their own sound and character. What's important is that they all sound sound natural, believable and are able to get past the limitations of playback, not how they compare to one another. This is something that you might find difficult to understand if you're used to only one table at a time, but you actually want those differences.
david
This is just an Air Force One (AF1) Premium, with a Tungsten platter and an Air Force Zero (AF0) motor in place of the standard AF1 components. I believe this configuration has been shown before. TechDas has announced that Mr. Nishikawa will be at this show to demonstrate this configuration (outfitted with the new generation SAT tonearm) and I’m guessing he will discuss the future AF0.
I heard Mr. Nishikawa discuss the AF0 two years ago at a Los Angeles dealer event. It was exciting to hear how far he was planning to reach with the AF0 which was obviously a long-held dream for him. Even so, I thought at the time he might not get the support necessary to bring a product that technically ambitious, and expensive, to market. However, I have been told by more than one person that deals with TechDas that they believe the (complete) AF0 will appear in the not distant future.
- Michael
the shown AF0 motor is a further development from the last year shown version. The Air Bearing is now on a better level. The main motor is a 3 phase motor, Nishikawa said, that the motor itself is similar to the ones known from Studer in Switzerland
The total AF0 is not yet ready, but he „hopes“ soon.
The total AF0 is not yet ready, but he „hopes“ soon.
I have been preaching about using these motors for belt turntables since a few years ago - I am adapting one to my Forsell air bearing flywheel!
For those wanting to see photos
- these are the tiles of the access to my garage http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?24201-Turntables-Vintage-or-New&p=476976&viewfull=1#post476976!BTW, the idea was not mine - I took it from the original vintage Brakemeier Apolyt.
Last edited:
It’s actually a single phase motor that you can drive with a three phase supply too.
david
David, Do you mean that their own sound and character is not important because they all sound natural and believable? I am curious about how that sound and character differs. A violin will sound natural and believable whether it is played outside in some field, inside in a living room or on the stage of a large concert hall. But it will sound remarkably different in each case. I understand why some people actually want differences even though I have only one table and arm. I'm trying to understand what those differences are and if they can be described. Perhaps they need to be heard and experienced, and can not be written about accurately. I am also curious about how this "natural and believable" sound and character differs from that of the top direct drive tables like the new Monaco.
People say that mass matters, how energy is handled, and how speed is maintained. I'm sure this is all correct, but these are insufficient to describe how something sounds.
It is something that's best experienced. Think of the difference as different orchestras and/or conductors playing the same piece of music, even at the very top each orchestra has it's own sound and competency level this where the difference is. You can also think of it in terms of Heifetz vs Handel and in extreme case vs Kremer, take your pick.
At this level playback it really comes down to levels of naturalness and realism than anything else, of course the rest of the chain need to be up to it. Sadly even top level tts of any kind aren't even close to the Beyond group's "Natural & Believable" sound, again something that first hand experience will show you in a few minutes what is nearly impossible to explain in writing.
david
I assume David you referring to Ida Haendel the violinist not Handel the composer
Pretty broad spectrum of violinists Kramer Heifetz and Haendel that’s for sure
Pretty broad spectrum of violinists Kramer Heifetz and Haendel that’s for sure
Sorry, David, I think it is not.
The Studer capstan motors - manufactured by Papst - are true three phase induction motors. If you check them they have three wires and equal resistance between any of the three - three independent wingdings connected in triangle. They can be however be driven with a single phase using a dephasing capacitor. Studer published a very interesting article on the how to accurately control the speed of such motors when driven by a single phase - it is basically the circuit they use in their tape machines. I suppose that at that time building a true three phase drive would be too complex and large to implement - it is why he devised the very clever circuit they implemented using the rotor in-built tachometer.
As far as I have read, the last Studer/Revox machine to use a synchronous motor was the G36.
BTW, although they can apparently look similar on photos, the winding arrangements capstan motors are different from the the reel motors.
I assume David you referring to Ida Haendel the violinist not Handel the composer
Pretty broad spectrum of violinists Kramer Heifetz and Haendel that’s for sure
Thanks for correcting the Autocorrect Andrew, hard to see at times on a phone screen
!The spectrum is the beauty of analog LP playback.
david
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |