First listen to WAMM from TAS

KeithR · Jan 3, 2017

This product won't be worth 300k in a few years - so comparing it to super high end collectible cars doesn't make sense to me. In fact, the higher the price in audio usually the worse the resale.

As the high end has melted up in price over the past decade, the audience has thinned. The solution isn't mega-priced items that 99.9% of the audiophiles can't afford. Its just that manufacturers would rather make 10, 50k pieces than 50, 10k pieces and they have (had) Asia to support it. I hope it doesn't become like the Swiss watch industry which had its worst year since the 80s last year as it relied on the same demand source and pumped out the same silliness to WISs.

JA has posted that the average Stereophile reader system spends 25k on their entire system. Provides some perspective.

FrantzM · Jan 3, 2017

KeithR said:
This product won't be worth 300k in a few years - so comparing it to super high end collectible cars doesn't make sense to me. In fact, the higher the price in audio usually the worse the resale.

As the high end has melted up in price over the past decade, the audience has thinned. The solution isn't mega-priced items that 99.9% of the audiophiles can't afford. Its just that manufacturers would rather make 10, 50k pieces than 50, 10k pieces and they have (had) Asia to support it. I hope it doesn't become like the Swiss watch industry which had its worst year since the 80s last year as it relied on the same demand source and pumped out the same silliness to WISs.

JA has posted that the average Stereophile reader system spends 25k on their entire system. Provides some perspective.

Well Put!

853guy · Jan 3, 2017

KeithR said:
This product won't be worth 300k in a few years - so comparing it to super high end collectible cars doesn't make sense to me. In fact, the higher the price in audio usually the worse the resale.

As the high end has melted up in price over the past decade, the audience has thinned. The solution isn't mega-priced items that 99.9% of the audiophiles can't afford. Its just that manufacturers would rather make 10, 50k pieces than 50, 10k pieces and they have (had) Asia to support it. I hope it doesn't become like the Swiss watch industry which had its worst year since the 80s last year as it relied on the same demand source and pumped out the same silliness to WISs.

JA has posted that the average Stereophile reader system spends 25k on their entire system. Provides some perspective.

Hi KeithR,

I don't think anyone is expecting the WAMM to increase in value. Most of us are aware that unless we own genuine Western Electric or Bionors there's very few pieces of gear that will ever appreciate in the same way high end collectible cars do (although, if heavily discounted/dealer demo/dealer fire sale, it's occasionally possible to "make" money on some purchases).

My comparison to Ferrari and Porsche simply had to do with already established manufacturers who exist at the far end of the spectrum releasing limited edition halo products above their production models to a tiny portion of their target market - simply because they've already established a high level of credibility among the faithful who are looking for something more exclusive (diminishing returns of performance notwithstanding).

I don't expect a first-time buyer to the market to order a WAMM. Likely, it will be Wilson devotees who've already been through WATT/Puppies, MAXX's, XLF's, and who not only have the disposable income for a $650K speaker purchase, but are willing to do so because of loyalty to the brand based on the credibility Wilson have established for themselves over the last thirty-something years. There are very few companies in the ultra high-end who can command the sort of loyalty Wilson have accrued, and like Porsche and Ferrari, are simply more able to "exploit" (though I use that word benignly) their customer base knowing many will be able to afford such a piece, provided it carries a level of exclusivity, builds on Wilson's heritage and pushes the boundaries for performance (diminishing returns notwithstanding). From the reports coming in from the field, it appears they're more than accomplished that goal.

At least, that's my take on it.

beaur · Jan 3, 2017

I'm pretty sure Wilson's have accomplished that feat before. Not nearly as much as a Porche or a Ferrari. I have unfortunately never been able to use any of the aforementioned brands for either this or their intended purposes!!

Gregadd said:
Yeah but can they get you layed?

Gregadd · Jan 3, 2017

Despite what I said the WAMM should be something special. Overpriced and hyped but special. The only way it can be devalued is for Wilson to introduce a non-retrofittable Mk.II. Or possibly a weak review. Not likely since preorders make a review unecessary

slcaudiophile · Jan 3, 2017

i wanna pair of wilson's now.

slcaudiophile · Jan 3, 2017

removed cause it doesnt matter!

slcaudiophile · Jan 3, 2017

removed cause it doesnt matter!

microstrip · Jan 4, 2017

slcaudiophile said:
so which one is "complex?" the other non-complex most certainly are.

Can I ask you what is the aim of these inquisitive and hostile questions?

We have the privilege of having Bill Peugh from Wilson Audio as a member in this forum and I regret that he is loosing his time dealing with such ridicule questions. Bill has a long time membership at several high-end forums and many thousands of friendly and helpful audio posts, now and when he had positions in other brands. He has large experience and is an expert in speaker placement and room interaction, two cherished areas in this forum.

As usual, IMHO and YMMV.

Steve Williams · Jan 4, 2017

slcaudiophile said:
removed cause it doesnt matter!

microstrip said:
Can I ask you what is the aim of these inquisitive and hostile questions?

We have the privilege of having Bill Peugh from Wilson Audio as a member in this forum and I regret that he is loosing his time dealing with such ridicule questions. Bill has a long time membership at several high-end forums and many thousands of friendly and helpful audio posts, now and when he had positions in other brands. He has large experience and is an expert in speaker placement and room interaction, two cherished areas in this forum.

As usual, IMHO and YMMV.

I agree microstrip and fortunately SLCaudiophile removed posts 147 and 148 because not only would I have as well but because of the hostile nature and the most egregious of comments that he made regarding someone's religion will just not be tolerated here at WBF. Comments such as these are make me want to throw up when I read them. We are a diverse community here at WBF with members from all over the world as well as every religion.

So in closing I will address this comment to SLCAudiophile and that would be for you to familiarize yourself with the Terms Of Service of WBF because based on 3 posts now (2 removed by you and one by me) have transgressed what we consider acceptable posts here at WBF. Take this as a form warning that any further comments about any member in such a derogatory fashion again will be dealt with.

I hope that I have made my position clear on this matter and no further outbursts of a similar matter will occur again

Kingsrule · Jan 4, 2017

Does Dave personally install the new WAMM like he did the original??

caesar · Jan 4, 2017

KeithR said:
This product won't be worth 300k in a few years - so comparing it to super high end collectible cars doesn't make sense to me. In fact, the higher the price in audio usually the worse the resale.

As the high end has melted up in price over the past decade, the audience has thinned. The solution isn't mega-priced items that 99.9% of the audiophiles can't afford. Its just that manufacturers would rather make 10, 50k pieces than 50, 10k pieces and they have (had) Asia to support it. I hope it doesn't become like the Swiss watch industry which had its worst year since the 80s last year as it relied on the same demand source and pumped out the same silliness to WISs.

JA has posted that the average Stereophile reader system spends 25k on their entire system. Provides some perspective.

Keith, great point. On the other hand, it is irrational to price audio products, which are luxury products, low or medium. If one doesn't price high, people assume they suck.

Gregadd · Jan 4, 2017

JA will address the issue of price in the upcoming issue. I am curious whether the WAMM will be memtioed

bonzo75 · Jan 5, 2017

KeithR said:
JA has posted that the average Stereophile reader system spends 25k on their entire system. Provides some perspective.

Dang, given that Zero Distortion gets 1/1 view by Mike Lavigne daily, the ZD average reader system spend is much higher.

caesar · Jan 5, 2017

Gregadd said:
JA will address the issue of price in the upcoming issue. I am curious whether the WAMM will be memtioed

It will be interesting to read what he says. And, of course, it will be interesting if he even brings up the WAMM. My impression is that Stereophile has a guilt about reviewing the ultra high-end stuff. Other than Fremer consistently writing about that stuff, most of the higher-priced products have been left for TAS to cover.

But if Keith is right in that Stereophile is primarily targeting their magazine content to people with $25K systems, one must still admit that high end audio is a luxury. To put the joy one gets from a $25K system in the free world in perspective, my wife and I just donated some medicines to friends who have family in Venezuela, where people can’t get basic essentials, and are starving and sick. After all, one can enjoy music from a basic radio, on the street, or from the car radio. Yet feeling the “realism” of a piano recording or enjoying the texture of a baritone sax that only glowing tubes can provide are luxuries we should be very grateful for.

Actually, as far as audio elites and intellectuals go, no one other than Ken Kessler has openly stated that high end audio is a luxury. And furthermore, many of the reviewers just act as marketing representatives for their favorite gear brands, telling emotionally-laden stories that makes folks desire those luxury brands that can make “real musicians appear” (although less in Stereophile than in other publications).

Now, of course, there is nothing wrong with luxuries. If the money was obtained legally, who cares how people enjoy themselves? But we must be intellectually honest to see things as they really are.

It will be interesting to see where Atkinson goes with this…

P.S. Nice to see you posting again, Gregadd. Always enjoy your perspective.

bonzo75 · Jan 5, 2017

The $25k seems to be when the addict is still on the powder, before he takes to the syringe

thedudeabides · Jan 5, 2017

bonzo75 said:
The $25k seems to be when the addict is still on the powder, before he takes to the syringe

Suffice to say, a well implemented $25K system (used gear / street value) can bring enormous amounts of musical pleasure and still leave funds to pursue other interests.

ZD aside, most folks don't need or want the "syringe".

853guy · Jan 5, 2017

thedudeabides said:
...most folks don't need or want the "syringe".

Until they try it.

thedudeabides · Jan 5, 2017

853guy said:
Until they try it.

I've often described my "audio" adventures to friends as a "drug addiction".

As with all addictions, the "level" that you choose to pursue is a personal decision.

Happy to say that for me, it's become largely a non issue.

microstrip · Jan 5, 2017

thedudeabides said:
I've often described my "audio" adventures to friends as a "drug addiction". (...)

An older audiophile, good friend of mine, considers it an hobby that keeps us away from dangerous addictions ...

First listen to WAMM from TAS

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Active Member

Fleetwood Sound

WBF Founding Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

WBF Founding Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Similar threads